carlimac

I agree with this. Though my daughters showed promise in dance ( pop music) , I took them out early ( after a year) or had them do clogging instead. Thankfully, they all eventually opted for soccer or track without me having to fight them on it, much. This was 25-26 years ago for my first daughter. Granted I came from a family where I was the youngest and my mother had me at 42 so I was probably a generation behind in my social acceptance of pop culture of the times.  But I was appalled!! This was a pretty conservative community and the dance club included lots of little LDS girls. The high school age dancers were very  suggestive in their dance. During practices for the big end of year show I watched some of the watchers- high school boys! and I saw it through their eyes. That's when I decided my girls weren't going to be dancers. 
 A decade later when my youngest girls had friends that invited them to take ballroom dance with them, I agreed to let them. And it was cute in the way you think miniature farm animals are cute or a tiny house is cute. Someone small dancing like adults do in a formal and very chaste manner. Cute! Until I watched a performance at a competition including some 14 year old girls salsa dancing.  Then I about puked. And after that I told the girls "sorry" but competetive ballroom dancing wasn't anything I would support if it included dancing like that (much to the dismay of my girls and their friends and their friends' mother who despite being one of the most conservative LDS moms I've ever known, had no problem with her young teenage girls dancing with so much sexual overtone. There was a disconnect there that I still don't understand. ) It would have made me sick to see my own girls in that role. My daughters got over it and, as I said, hopped right into cross country and track without missing a beat.
I have one sweet friend with a tiny 10 year old who has won competitions in dance and she posts lots of pictures of her on social media. I just pray that little girl isn't found by a pedophile. She's an easy target and even very suggestive in, like, first day of school pictures. I take it that her mom thinks it's funny but  I worry for them. 
 

I agree with this. Though my daughters showed promise in dance ( pop music) , I took them out early ( after a year) or had them do clogging instead. Thankfully, they all eventually opted for soccer or track without me having to fight them on it, much. This was 25-26 years ago for my first daughter. Granted I came from a family where I was the youngest and my mother had me at 42 so I was probably a generation behind in my social acceptance of pop culture of the times.  But I was appalled!! This was a pretty conservative community and the dance club included lots of little LDS girls. The high school age dancers were very  suggestive in their dance. During practices for the big end of year show I watched some of the watchers- high school boys! and I saw it through their eyes. That's when I decided my girls weren't going to be dancers. 
 A decade later when my youngest girls had friends that invited them to take ballroom dance with them, I agreed to let them. And it was cute in the way you think miniature farm animals are cute or a tiny house is cute. Someone small dancing like adults do in a formal and very chaste manner. Cute! Until I watched a performance at a competition including some 14 year old girls salsa dancing.  Then I about puked. And after that I told the girls "sorry" but competetive ballroom dancing wasn't anything I would support if it included dancing like that (much to the dismay of my girls and their friends and their friends' mother who despite being one of the most conservative LDS moms I've ever known, had no problem with her young teenage girls dancing with so much sexual overtone. There was a disconnect there that I still don't understand. ) It would have made me sick to see my own girls in that role. My daughters got over it and, as I said, hopped right into cross country and track without missing a beat.
I have one sweet friend with a tiny 10 year old who has won competitions in dance and she posts lots of pictures of her on social media. I just pray that little girl isn't found by a pedophile. She's an easy target and even very suggestive in, like, first day of school pictures. I take it that her mom thinks it's funny but  I worry for them. 
 

I keep trying to build up my food storage stocks.  Presently I believe we are up to 120 days of food storage and we have a water purification system that will make a few thousand gallons of water drinkable.  My wife's health is not good so it is hard to build up more food storage as we are spending thousands of dollars now on treatments trying to get her well.  But we will keep trying and working toward a six month supply of food storage.

I have some buddies on the left who are making me think a thread like this is timely and necessary.
To start out on the right foot: 
 
I'm worried about the upcoming election.  
- If Trump wins, the 'rise up against oppression by burning down our own cities' folks will be energized and grow (hopefully for just a short time).
- If Vice President Kamala Harris (and Joe) wins, well, you've got a lot of folks ticked off at inadequate government response to rioting, and a lot of folks ticked off at executive public health orders.  Should we get more blue in charge, and less government standing against rioting, I expect to see an increase of people taking things into their own hands.  
- No matter who wins, if the results are in question because of election fraud, well, losing faith in our institutions weakens us as a nation.  Remember Gore vs. Bush decided by the supreme court?  Think about that, but people are in the streets lighting crap on fire and shooting at each other.  Not good.
 
So, in an effort to help mitigate all that, I'm starting this thread to tackle hoaxes and dumbness.
 
Hoax and dumbness #1: "Trump has put a 10' concrete wall around the White House in order to stay in office."  Pushing this notion is meant to make the president look like a banana republic dictator, unjustly ruling in defiance of the public will.  The reality, is that plans for this latest construction, with new anti-climb features, were started back in Obama's 2nd term.  Cool history of the White House perimeter, involving Nixon, Clinton, GWB, and Obama: Business Insider - The White House is building a massive 'anti-climb' wall following protests. These photos show the evolution of White House fencing over the years
 

I looked into this a little more - since I know nothing about Netflix.  Though I am concerned with the trend, I am not surprised.  I have a beautiful daughter that was very into dance when she was growing up.  She still is.  A few years ago she tried out for a TV show called "So you think you can dance".  She did not make the first cut but was told that she showed promise and should work and try out again.  As a mother of 4 she decided to let go of that dream.
I gave this little back story because 20 years ago this daughter was very into dance.  Of course as a dad, I supported the dreams of my little girl.  Did you see that part about 20 years ago?  I remember going to a competition while this daughter was still in grade school.  Engineers do not know a lot about dance - but I like to think I am a quick learner.  I also married a cheerleader - though I never saw my wife cheer live.  By college she had backed off from cheer-leading.  Anyway watching my little daughter was a bit of a culture shock for me.   Once these little girls get beyond the toddler stage and into serious dance - there are three things that greatly concerned me.  #1. the makeup and hair.  This is way over the top but it is considered part of the training.  #2. are the costumes.   Like the make up the standard is - in my mind - how can I say this???  In the dance world; sexy and cute are synonymous.   I was surprised to learn that part of training a dancer is getting them over the inclination of being embarrassed wearing a costume.  #3. the dance moves.
All of it seemed a little too sexy to me.  Especially for little girls.  
The problem in defining a line between what is acceptable and not acceptable - there is not that much difference between almost to the line and just over the line regardless of where the line is drawn.  And so for my final thought I will quote - Confucius Says:
 
The Traveler

Many regular users have left the site, some thankfully (IMHO) others are missed.   I still read the site daily, but only comment when I feel I have something to add.  
 
While the communication here has slowed, I personally feel it is much more faith-centered and less distracted by trolling and inactive Saints offering seedy advice and opinions that don't firmly side with Church teachings.  
 
Im not the site owner or administrator, but in the past I've stepped back from the site several times due to the conversations.   Now, much of what is posted goes over my head but I still learn by reading.  

Candace Owens is a hoot.

When it got announced I posted on facebook that I was taking bets.  Will she claim to be Indian American as she did for her senate seat or will she now use the black race card?

1) Everybody is a potential carrier.  We don't know who is or isn't.  I personally don't trust other people to self-regulate to stay home when sick.
2) Masks are a tool that helps reduce the spread of the virus.
3) Any mask can reduce (not stop) the spread of droplets, some better than others.
4) Being able to socialize with a mask is better than being quarantined without in-person interaction.
5) We can't stop the viral spread, but we can slow it down so hospitals and other care units don't get overwhelmed.
I understand the fight against government mandates requiring masks. But masks are effective.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/07/20/utah-records-new/

Update: Reunion was cancelled. But the organizer said she is still using the condo and anyone else who wants to come is still invited to come. So... Really just a faux cancellation.  Hence, EVERYONE except my family are staying in the condo. 26 people. My family would have made the numbers 48 plus a couple more nephews who either don't want to or can't go would have made 55 people. - all together in this condo. An ill conceived idea even without COVID.
My own kids ages 32 and down are much more concerned about this than even my husband and I.  My 28 yr old son in medical school has practically begged his Grandma not to go. He hasn't seen her since last Labor Day and would be devastated if she got it!   Only one of my daughters lives in Utah and she works in an Assisted Living center so she feels very strongly about being extremely careful. All the rest of us live on either the east or west coast or in Texas- areas of devastation by this virus.  The rest of the extended family live in the Salt Lake or Utah County areas.  Frankly, it's disturbing to watch the cognitive dissonance going on with them. Despite the Governor and Church leaders pleading for mask use and social distancing, nieces and nephews are forever posting stuff on social media of them with about 30 of their closest friends in different activities- not social distancing, no masks. Here are the comments or justifications I've heard-" All the positive cases are within the Hispanic communities (of which the family isn't), only 4 people in my ward have gotten it, it's just a political conspiracy, I don't know anyone who has died, well we're all seeing each other outside ( and jamming in close for photos with arms around each other), masks are just so ugly (said by 22 year old golden boy nephew), we can't cancel it because all my work reward trips were cancelled and this is my only vacation ( said in a whiney voice by a 30 year old who has already spent time at Bear Lake this summer)  and the best...Everyone is having family reunions!"   When my family says, "I'm sorry we just feel like we need to take it seriously". Or "we feel the responsibility to stay away" they get defensive and insist THEY ARE being responsible and taking it seriously.  😵 
I hate to say this but from the outside looking in, it has the optics of a very entitled group of people unwilling to sacrifice their fun for the greater good.  My own group of 20 may sound self righteous and pompous. I admit we may be. But we just don't get their attitude at all!  Also, Grandma who has FOMO herself is still going to "sneak up there". As if you sneak, it doesn't make it real. 

Speaking of 'running away from all this crap', my wife lost a little hen a while ago.  She figured a dog or coyote got her.  Then, the other day, well, we found where she had run off to:

 

Something citified folks often don't know - the further away you get from services/amenities/roads, the cheaper the land/house.   We live on 5 acres, 10 miles away from the nearest town, and 30 miles away from my work (50+ miles when I worked in Denver).  I've commuted to work for 20 years now, quite a happy camper.  We're hardly rich.  It can be done.  I hear you clarifying "I can't afford that", with language of "would like" and "prefer" and "don't want" and "doesn't appeal".  
I've found that joking about owning a minefield, is as satisfying as actually having all that stuff.  Our protection dog died of old age years ago, the attack turkeys do the job these days.
You don't need to rule out living in a remote location.  Here's a pic I took looking out my back door one morning:

 
This is not an expensive place to live.  Halfway between Colorado Springs and Denver, out of the trees, away from the mountain.  
 

Your friend is wrong.  Private businesses absolutely have the right to mandate the use of masks.  Individuals like your friend are acting wrongfully.  Advocating for individual liberty and being obedient to the requests of a private organization are not mutually exclusive.  The statement he is making is that it is okay to ignore the rules of a private organization (which it isn't).  Individuals do not have the right to impose their beliefs on a private entity.  People like your friend lessen the efforts of those who respect private businesses and also advocate for individual liberty, and against government mandates.

No, you clearly comandeered the ship and sailed off in a different direction. My question was not about whether the  youth of the church are stalwart or about crying at the pulpit.

This family has FOMO like none other. And not much medical knowledge. 82 year old finished chemo six months ago. Just wants everyone else to be happy. 
 
The rub is that the organizer family member who personally knows the owner of the condo refuses to ask for a refund. We’ve all paid dearly into this and would lose big money. So because she still wants to have her vacation, (as well as 82 yr old and a couple others) the rest of us are obligated, or at least look like scared ninnies if we opt out. She says she’d refund us but she doesn’t have that much money. 

I'm really sick of how things are going in general.
We have a flawed past.  Each person is flawed.  We need to acknowledge that, learn, and move forward.  That's not achieved by erasing the past or pretending that a person is defined by a single flaw or virtue.  

It sort of grew it’s own wings and flew away while I was otherwise occupied.

https://youtu.be/RIYafkjQVn8
I found this video with Elder Holland talking with a Jewish rabbi. It explains some of my questions about where our leaders have been lately and why we maybe haven’t heard as much from them as we would have wanted.
 
This is where Elder Holland is personally. In my mind it really helps me to see him not just as a leader that I have all kinds of expectations for, but as an individual and fellow passenger on this crazy COVID  ship we’re on. It humanizes our leaders which is humbling to me. I appreciate them more after listening to this and don’t feel so demanding of them. 
 
Basically this is a time of “renewal” for them. It’s almost a blessing of down time for them. 
 
About halfway through at min 27 or 28 it takes a more theological turn. I haven’t finished listening to that part. 

I was just hoping you’d keep the depth on the other thread. I simply wanted to know why Church leaders seem quieter than usual right now- as in the last few months and especially the last few weeks. Probably because of the quarantine and they aren’t in public gatherings and meetings where they would be quoted in the news.
There. Answered my own question.
I cant even begin to want to read all this yammering on the tangents you’ve gone off on, not once but twice. Start your own thread if you want to go down some extraneous rabbit hole. I’d appreciate it if you’d not do it on the relatively simple questions I’m asking. 
 
But I’ve got to say you hooked some  whopper fish with your bait. 🙄

I was just hoping you’d keep the depth on the other thread. I simply wanted to know why Church leaders seem quieter than usual right now- as in the last few months and especially the last few weeks. Probably because of the quarantine and they aren’t in public gatherings and meetings where they would be quoted in the news.
There. Answered my own question.
I cant even begin to want to read all this yammering on the tangents you’ve gone off on, not once but twice. Start your own thread if you want to go down some extraneous rabbit hole. I’d appreciate it if you’d not do it on the relatively simple questions I’m asking. 
 
But I’ve got to say you hooked some  whopper fish with your bait. 🙄

https://youtu.be/RIYafkjQVn8
I found this video with Elder Holland talking with a Jewish rabbi. It explains some of my questions about where our leaders have been lately and why we maybe haven’t heard as much from them as we would have wanted.
 
This is where Elder Holland is personally. In my mind it really helps me to see him not just as a leader that I have all kinds of expectations for, but as an individual and fellow passenger on this crazy COVID  ship we’re on. It humanizes our leaders which is humbling to me. I appreciate them more after listening to this and don’t feel so demanding of them. 
 
Basically this is a time of “renewal” for them. It’s almost a blessing of down time for them. 
 
About halfway through at min 27 or 28 it takes a more theological turn. I haven’t finished listening to that part. 

It sort of grew it’s own wings and flew away while I was otherwise occupied.

https://youtu.be/RIYafkjQVn8
I found this video with Elder Holland talking with a Jewish rabbi. It explains some of my questions about where our leaders have been lately and why we maybe haven’t heard as much from them as we would have wanted.
 
This is where Elder Holland is personally. In my mind it really helps me to see him not just as a leader that I have all kinds of expectations for, but as an individual and fellow passenger on this crazy COVID  ship we’re on. It humanizes our leaders which is humbling to me. I appreciate them more after listening to this and don’t feel so demanding of them. 
 
Basically this is a time of “renewal” for them. It’s almost a blessing of down time for them. 
 
About halfway through at min 27 or 28 it takes a more theological turn. I haven’t finished listening to that part. 

Just found out Elder Holland is in the hospital. Not COVID 19.  Praying it’s something he can recover from!

https://youtu.be/RIYafkjQVn8
I found this video with Elder Holland talking with a Jewish rabbi. It explains some of my questions about where our leaders have been lately and why we maybe haven’t heard as much from them as we would have wanted.
 
This is where Elder Holland is personally. In my mind it really helps me to see him not just as a leader that I have all kinds of expectations for, but as an individual and fellow passenger on this crazy COVID  ship we’re on. It humanizes our leaders which is humbling to me. I appreciate them more after listening to this and don’t feel so demanding of them. 
 
Basically this is a time of “renewal” for them. It’s almost a blessing of down time for them. 
 
About halfway through at min 27 or 28 it takes a more theological turn. I haven’t finished listening to that part.