carlimac

One of my 40ish LDS acquaintances posted on Instagram,  “I stand with the LGBTQs at BYU”.  What does that mean? Do you sanction everything they do? Do you think they are totally helpless to control that aspect of their lives so they should have the freedom to be “authentic” at BYU?   Another friend with a gay son feels the same. 

So how do you reconcile that with church doctrine and frankly, with nature.
I myself also stand with LGBTQ at BYU. I stand with their confusion, loneliness, the rejection they may feel from family, friends and maybe even church leaders. I stand with them as they face whatever made them that way. Abuse, dysfunctional relationships? In some cases they may have been born that way. I remember a baby with ambiguous genitalia at the hospital I worked at. Hopefully the surgeons that fixed the problem got it right but back then it was more of a crap shoot. I stand with the underdog and anyone who feels different from the majority. I feel compassion. I want to hug them and soften their pain.
But we all have to decide where that line is when we’re standing lest they get they idea that standing WITH them means standing FOR them and condoning all that they want. Some parental emotions and midlife wokeness take people way farther over that line than is good for them or the kids they are standing with. It can be a pretty fuzzy line and can cause even more hurt and confusion!
 
 

The problem here IMHO is that so many people are obsessing about what the HCO will let them do, rather than considering what is right and/or what the Lord wants them to do.  
Gay displays of physical affection are wrong—if not inherently sinful as a per se violation of chastity, than certainly wrong as a colossally reckless step in the direction of unchaste behavior and an insensitive act of toying with and deliberately cultivating human emotions and desires that must at some point be reined in/terminated.   This didn’t suddenly change just because some bureaucrats in the HCO manifested their own spinelessness/treachery.
BYU and/or the Church condemns a lot of behaviors that many (most?) students participate in anyways.  While some gay BYU students may sincerely fear HCO retribution based on past events (and I note that Professor Brau had no problem indulging in a little turnabout when he gloated about the possibility of siccing the HCO on conservative students who admonished gay students for unvirtuous behavior)—I daresay the sticking point for most of these protestors isn’t the threat of administrative retribution.  They’re ticked off that BYU is still in the business of making statements about right and wrong, particularly on matters of sexual behavior.  They thought they had the camel’s nose well and truly into the tent.

My Momma is RIGHT once again.  As most Filipino Mommas do, my Momma's answer to everything is VICKS VAPORUB.  You have cough or colds... Vicks.  On your chest.  On your feet.  Cover your feet with socks.  You have headache... Vicks.  On your forehead.  You can't sleep...Vicks.  On your eyelids ("Ma!  I can't open my eyes!" "That's right, you go to sleep now baby.").  Corona Virus... Vicks.  On your fingers.  Thickly slathered.  You won't be touching your face with that now, would you.  Ahhh... my Momma is right again!

Will the moon collide with the earth next week? Either it will or it will not, but it doesn't hurt to take precautions. Like spend $100 quadrillion to build shelters for everyone.
in fact, it can hurt to "take precautions". It can hurt very badly. It can damage economies, temporarily or sometimes perrmanently. It can affect relationships between nations. It can fuel hatreds. It can give US media another outrageous excuse to bag on the sitting President.
How much of a threat is this virus? By all reasonable, level-headed accounts, probably not all that much. Yet the outsized reactions are causing harm even as we speak. $10 for a dust mask! Dow down 3600 points in one week! Our nation gearing up to implement massive, widespread measures to protect against what for most people amounts to a cold!
There is money to be extorted, power to be garnered, and in general, lots of hay to be made during the shining sun of this latest media-manufactured "crisis". In the words of the administration of Barack Obama, "Never let a serious crisis go to waste."

This is a debate not worth having.  Because - even if people are born with homosexual desire, it doesn't mean they should now go have homosexual relations.  I have intermittent explosive disorder.  That doesn't mean I can just now go abusing people even if I claim "I was born with it" (I don't know if I am or not, just using it as an example).  So, it doesn't change anything.  What I usually just say when confronted by LGBTQ+ people who say they are born with it is - perhaps.  Then continue on with the "what to do about it" discussion.

Nothing is said about children with gender dysphoria. They definitely need to be helped/listened to/loved but possibly distracted till it passes. Which it does most of the time. 

I agree.  It becomes clearer to me the further down the rabbit hole you go.  I think the Honor Code hubbub at BYU is what cleared it up for me.  Is a boy and a girl kissing an abomination unto God?  It's not an Honor Code violation, correct?  Yet two boys or two girls doing it is the same thing?   It just isn't.

I have considered this and have tried to see if I can reasonably incorporate this belief into my belief system. Something deep within me rejects it. The very nature of an intimate homosexual relationship is utterly contrary, not merely to God's plan of salvation, but to my gut-level understanding of family relations. I admit that maybe this is a variation of the "Ewwww! Gross!" objection, but I cannot honestly just dismiss it. There is something fundamentally wrong with the proposition of same-sex sexual relationships.
This might be perceived as the old "contrary to nature" argument, even though I know that homosexuality is certainly not contrary to nature. (But then, neither is forcible rape, sodomizing children, or killing your neighbor so you can have his wife.) However, that's not it. It seems more like...contrary to reason and rightfulness and loving smiles and puppy dogs and apple pie and basic human decency. Not sure how to explain it, but surely I'm not alone in feeling this way.
This is not meant as a condemnation of the homosexual who experiences such impulses. Rather, it's a gut-level rejection of the absolute equivalency between homosexual fornication and heterosexual fornication. To my mind, they are somehow different in kind, and thus I think different in severity.

The Big Ugly of this is far from over. There will be gay couples called in for kissing or making out in public and they will get their panties in a bunch and file lawsuits over it  and sue the school and church and the whole crew of this hormonal, emotional, high strung BYU cruise ship from the First presidency down to this clown of a professor will get a back eye. I would bet on it. 
At BYU things need to be spelled out. Dresses this long, No facial hair unless there are skin issues, no bellies showing, no spaghetti straps,etc etc etc!! Many students are mature and sensible and realize you just can't play with sparks in a dry field without there being significant danger. They will respectfully hold off on PDA on campus. But many are barely out of childhood and will push the limits like a feckless spoiled kid until mommy and daddy come bail them out.
After a day and a half of conversations with the mom of a gay kid, I'm so tired of the whining and tantrums. Some parents are worse than the kids themselves and no wonder there are identity and maturity problems. I know that sounds harsh but I really haven't had any  reasonable and smart discussions with people from this crowd. State the obvous to them, such as yes you can get married and even adopt kids, but those kids will never experience having a mother (or father) in their home. That's a disadvantage for those kids right out of the gate. Doesn't matter to the gays getting married. It's all about "me, me, me!"  And sometimes their parents are snootier than snoot! 
But...the Lord loves them just as much as he loves me. I need to remember that. sigh!!

If this is accurate, the real problem lies not with the honor code adjustment, but with the people who will choose to tow the line and partially feed their homosexual appetite.  People are fooling themselves if they believe that a homosexual lifestyle is being considered acceptable.
In general, I do agree with the notion that heterosexual sin and homosexual sin of the same type are equal in their abuse of God's procreative powers, and thus should be treated equal in the process of repentance.  However, there are some things that I believe more quickly arrive at sin in a homosexual relationship that would not be considered sinful for a heterosexual couple.  One such example would be simply identifying as a homosexual couple, which, although not a sexual sin, is yet a sin of pride and rebellion in its blatant rejection of the foundational principles of the family unit, and the plan of salvation established from the beginning.

The Big Ugly of this is far from over. There will be gay couples called in for kissing or making out in public and they will get their panties in a bunch and file lawsuits over it  and sue the school and church and the whole crew of this hormonal, emotional, high strung BYU cruise ship from the First presidency down to this clown of a professor will get a back eye. I would bet on it. 
At BYU things need to be spelled out. Dresses this long, No facial hair unless there are skin issues, no bellies showing, no spaghetti straps,etc etc etc!! Many students are mature and sensible and realize you just can't play with sparks in a dry field without there being significant danger. They will respectfully hold off on PDA on campus. But many are barely out of childhood and will push the limits like a feckless spoiled kid until mommy and daddy come bail them out.
After a day and a half of conversations with the mom of a gay kid, I'm so tired of the whining and tantrums. Some parents are worse than the kids themselves and no wonder there are identity and maturity problems. I know that sounds harsh but I really haven't had any  reasonable and smart discussions with people from this crowd. State the obvous to them, such as yes you can get married and even adopt kids, but those kids will never experience having a mother (or father) in their home. That's a disadvantage for those kids right out of the gate. Doesn't matter to the gays getting married. It's all about "me, me, me!"  And sometimes their parents are snootier than snoot! 
But...the Lord loves them just as much as he loves me. I need to remember that. sigh!!

The Big Ugly of this is far from over. There will be gay couples called in for kissing or making out in public and they will get their panties in a bunch and file lawsuits over it  and sue the school and church and the whole crew of this hormonal, emotional, high strung BYU cruise ship from the First presidency down to this clown of a professor will get a back eye. I would bet on it. 
At BYU things need to be spelled out. Dresses this long, No facial hair unless there are skin issues, no bellies showing, no spaghetti straps,etc etc etc!! Many students are mature and sensible and realize you just can't play with sparks in a dry field without there being significant danger. They will respectfully hold off on PDA on campus. But many are barely out of childhood and will push the limits like a feckless spoiled kid until mommy and daddy come bail them out.
After a day and a half of conversations with the mom of a gay kid, I'm so tired of the whining and tantrums. Some parents are worse than the kids themselves and no wonder there are identity and maturity problems. I know that sounds harsh but I really haven't had any  reasonable and smart discussions with people from this crowd. State the obvous to them, such as yes you can get married and even adopt kids, but those kids will never experience having a mother (or father) in their home. That's a disadvantage for those kids right out of the gate. Doesn't matter to the gays getting married. It's all about "me, me, me!"  And sometimes their parents are snootier than snoot! 
But...the Lord loves them just as much as he loves me. I need to remember that. sigh!!

The Big Ugly of this is far from over. There will be gay couples called in for kissing or making out in public and they will get their panties in a bunch and file lawsuits over it  and sue the school and church and the whole crew of this hormonal, emotional, high strung BYU cruise ship from the First presidency down to this clown of a professor will get a back eye. I would bet on it. 
At BYU things need to be spelled out. Dresses this long, No facial hair unless there are skin issues, no bellies showing, no spaghetti straps,etc etc etc!! Many students are mature and sensible and realize you just can't play with sparks in a dry field without there being significant danger. They will respectfully hold off on PDA on campus. But many are barely out of childhood and will push the limits like a feckless spoiled kid until mommy and daddy come bail them out.
After a day and a half of conversations with the mom of a gay kid, I'm so tired of the whining and tantrums. Some parents are worse than the kids themselves and no wonder there are identity and maturity problems. I know that sounds harsh but I really haven't had any  reasonable and smart discussions with people from this crowd. State the obvous to them, such as yes you can get married and even adopt kids, but those kids will never experience having a mother (or father) in their home. That's a disadvantage for those kids right out of the gate. Doesn't matter to the gays getting married. It's all about "me, me, me!"  And sometimes their parents are snootier than snoot! 
But...the Lord loves them just as much as he loves me. I need to remember that. sigh!!

The Big Ugly of this is far from over. There will be gay couples called in for kissing or making out in public and they will get their panties in a bunch and file lawsuits over it  and sue the school and church and the whole crew of this hormonal, emotional, high strung BYU cruise ship from the First presidency down to this clown of a professor will get a back eye. I would bet on it. 
At BYU things need to be spelled out. Dresses this long, No facial hair unless there are skin issues, no bellies showing, no spaghetti straps,etc etc etc!! Many students are mature and sensible and realize you just can't play with sparks in a dry field without there being significant danger. They will respectfully hold off on PDA on campus. But many are barely out of childhood and will push the limits like a feckless spoiled kid until mommy and daddy come bail them out.
After a day and a half of conversations with the mom of a gay kid, I'm so tired of the whining and tantrums. Some parents are worse than the kids themselves and no wonder there are identity and maturity problems. I know that sounds harsh but I really haven't had any  reasonable and smart discussions with people from this crowd. State the obvous to them, such as yes you can get married and even adopt kids, but those kids will never experience having a mother (or father) in their home. That's a disadvantage for those kids right out of the gate. Doesn't matter to the gays getting married. It's all about "me, me, me!"  And sometimes their parents are snootier than snoot! 
But...the Lord loves them just as much as he loves me. I need to remember that. sigh!!

I remember a few talks by President Hinckley where he told the General church membership that we were good people striving to do our best. I felt so much more motivated by that than almost any other General Conference talk.

I remember a few talks by President Hinckley where he told the General church membership that we were good people striving to do our best. I felt so much more motivated by that than almost any other General Conference talk.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46720286/lori-vallow-daybell-arrested-on-investigation-of-child-desertion-in-hawaii-bail-set-at-5-million
 
Finally!!

As others have said, I don't think it was previously, unless you held a prominent position.
The homosex thing is ultimately a type of adultery/fornication, so I understand why that would not be an automatic membership council trigger. The homosexual "marriage" thing I don't understand. If contracting a homosexual "marriage" is not open apostasy, I'm not sure what is.

I’m not going to go shove that in her face. If it brings her any amount of comfort to believe he was born that way then I’ll leave her to it. She believes a bunch of crazy but harmless stuff and I’m not going to change her mind. So I’ll just let it go.

This is not representative of what Elder Ballard said. He said,:
Let us be clear: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that ‘the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including [those with same-sex attraction]'
In context, it's clear that Elder Ballard was not making a blanket statement that no one chooses to have such attractions. What he said was more along the lines that even those who do not choose such attractions can still choose how they respond to those attractions. This is a perhaps subtle but still important difference. I have met and known individuals who have indeed chosen to nurture, and thus to have, homosexual attractions. I bet most have met such people.

Well, a behind the scenes 'leak' on this is a good way to test the waters to see how the general public likes the idea.
If it is favorable...well...a stronger look at a Bloomberg/Clinton.  Bad reception at the thought...easy to say it was not even under consideration and was a bad rumor that came out.

Church says: Handbook
vs.

 

One of the unforgivable curses banned by the Ministry of Magic!

A lot of people made promises/threats like that about Trump winning.  I hope you keep your word better than they did  

A nearly perfect encapsulation of my own feelings.