Miss_Mae

mnn: I agree that the problem is more complex than just doing nothing. However, I don't believe that helping the poor by force is good on any level. Not only is it unjust and a complete deprivation of agency (the whole reason Christ died or us), but it actually prevents some really great blessings--i.e. those associated with freely giving and freely receiving. When we are allowed to be charitable we gain a love for those we serve. When we are forced to do so, we are removed from process and see little of the blessings firsthand. On the other side, those who freely receive feel loved and appreciated, while those who are given help by law, tend to feel more entitled and are emotionally-removed from the benefits. There is too much of this loss of agency in our whole system--not just the health bill. I think we really need to just go back to the basic principles of our Constitution. However, getting there from where we are will be like a tree nearly chopped down: It will either have to fall completely and give seed to a new tree, or it will need to be mended, propped up, dunged, pruned, etc. etc. until it slowly, but surely, becomes strong again. What I mean by this is that, we need to make things right, but not at the expense of those who have lost property and opportunity b/c of the current system. It needs to happen slowly, but surely.

Perhaps the less-appealing traits of some of our founders were more a lingering falsehood of the tyrannical reign of England? Maybe they are actually more reason to avoid tyranny in any of its forms and embrace freedom?

Sorry if I repeat something already said--didn't have time to read all the previous posts. It sounds like this has been going on long enough that you're really just sick of holding on and trying to look at the bright side of things. Perhaps it feels like you're just living a big lie. I've been in a similar place--not exactly the same, but similar. I found that as soon as I really got to the end of my rope God lifted me. When I just stuck with it, longer than I thought possible, I finally got there. Now, I know so much more about the gospel. I even understand some very difficult concepts in the gospel. Polygamy is one of them. I now understand some things about it that help me see it has nothing to do with being perverted, oppressive, or unfair. I won't try to explain that unless you're really interested, b/c I think it may be something only the Spirit can explain/teach. The point is that, after I stuck with it long enough, I was blessed with knowledge and wisdom. Don't forget that while "To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful." (D&C 46:13-14). Also, please try not to confuse the doctrine of the Church with those who fail to understand and/or apply it correctly. It sounds like your visiting teachers are gabby, busy-bodied gossipers. The parable of the 10 virgins was not about the world, but about those who were "pure"--or those of the Church. Many of the Church will fall and fall the hardest too. Remember the cycles in the Book of Mormon--the righteous tend to go bad, and become worse than those who don't know. Do realize, however, that most tenants of the gospel make perfect sense--if you don't lie, others will trust you and you'll gain better work opportunities and more friends; if you don't drink, you will not be a burden on others who have to deal with your skewed attitudes and poor decisions, thereby losing real friends, and you won't get addicted; if you dress modestly, you will not gain the (albeit sub-conscious at times) self-doubt that comes with others noticing you for your body alone. This list could go on forever. Good luck. Keep trying. Be honest with your feelings, but have faith--err on the side of faith and doubt your doubts before doubting your beliefs.

Which states, do you know?

I've been thinking about it latlely. I wonder if it doesn't mean that we should try to uphold their name(?) Perhaps, it means that we give them the benefit of the doubt and do our best to keep our relationships with them uplifting. Of course, I don't believe we have to do whatever they say.

Thanks, everyone :)

Maybe Utah Mormons try to use such "unique" names b/c they do enough genealogy to realize that having ten Mary Elizabeth's in your family can make you want to pull a branch of the family tree and poke your eyes out with it Personally, I have a unique name and have always loved it for its uniqueness. I really do think it can be helpful for keeping things straight. I have to ladies of the same name at work and their mail, their clients, and their phone messages always gets mixed up. Remember in school when one of the Joe's in the class had to go by Joe-S and the other by Joey? As long as you don't live near Tyler, TX (where my husband and I hope to live someday), I'll let you use 'my' baby names, if you want . We don't have any kids yet, but hope to soon. Here's the names we like: GIRLS: -Roselynne Mary Belle Surname Reasoning: Rose means purity and Mary is representative of Mary the mother of Jesus. Belle means beauty. Nicknames could include Rose, Rosemary, etc. The 'ynne' is because my name also has a 'ynne' in it. -Evelynne Adelle Surname Reasoning: Eve = mother of all living, El = singular of Elohim, representative of Heavenly Mother, 'ynne' representative of earthly mother (as stated with regards to Roselynne) Lucille Elle Surname Reasoning: It's a pretty name BOYS: -Simon Peter Surname -Charles Surname (Obviously haven't thought quite as much about the boys. Watch, Heavenly Father will give me all boys, just because I love my girl name choices so much!)

I used to be quite shy. Actually, I still am, but it is better-hidden Being shy actually has a sociophysical aspect, according to research, so it is not just your personality. However, I still think it is important to break out of the shell a little. Here are some things that helped me: 1. Compliment others. Sometimes it is hard to talk to someone for fear of them rejecting you or thinking you're awkward, but I have yet to find someone who was offended at a genuine compliment :) 2. Go (preferably with a friend who you feel comfortable with) to a place where no one knows you. (maybe Salsa dancing, or to a comedy club, or another ward's activity, etc.) This can help you get out of the stigma that people already know you as "the shy girl". You can try being outgoing without anyone thinking it is totally fake or out of character. 3. Make the goal to do a few, mild things you aren't comfortable with. This could be something like calling attention to an incorrect order at a restaurant (excuse me, I'm sorry, but we asked for a hamburger, not a cheeseburger), or making your visiting teaching calls, etc. Do these few things every time the opportunity presents itself for a month or so. Then try a few other things. 4. Don't disregard common manners. Introduce yourself and/or your friends to new people you meet, and shake hands. All it takes is saying, "Hi, my name is __________" [shake hands]. One great way to help things be less uncomfortable is to tell something about those you are introducing to their new acquaintances. This gives them something to talk about and takes the pressure off of you, while still helping you come off as courteous and interested. For instance, you might say, "Mike, this is my friend Miranda, she just got back from a trip to California. Aren't your parents from there?" Leave it there, and they should start up the rest of the conversation for you. 5. Try to focus on others and you will lose yourself in them, while still coming off as outgoing. Hope this helps! It has worked for me :)

I realize this is a pretty old thread, and I haven't read all the replies, so I'm sorry if I don't add anything beneficial. However, I just wanted to add my testimonial here. I actually was "un-schooled" from about (what would be) the 1st grade through 6th grade, and half-time during Jr. High and High school. I went to a school here in Utah called Aspen Village. We students were in charge of our own education. If we felt we would learn best with a teacher, we asked a student-teacher from BYU to come and teach us. We, with the teacher, set the goals and rules for our classes. If we felt we would learn best with just our peers and books or other supplies, we found a way to get those supplies. Here's how I (and, from my estimations, all the other kids I knew there) benefited: We learned to LOVE to learn! We don't "hate math" or "hate reading" because we were never forced to do those things in a way that was coercive. However, we still learned math and learned to read, etc. How so? Well, these subjects--the "core" subjects--are the things we as a society have decided are necessary to get around in the world. They are necessary because they are ever-present and factor into a great many daily tasks. Because of this, they presuppose being a somewhat natural thing to learn. Case in point: at some time during my years at Aspen Village, my friends and I wanted to buy a basketball standard. We had to earn the money for this because there were no public funds available to us. So, we started a weekly bake-sale. WE thought it up. WE got the recipes. WE did the math to figure what our revenues and profits were, and how long we would need to do it and how much we'd need to sell before we could buy the standard. Another example: If you read the book Free at Last you will find that, while no one at the book's subject-school, Sudbury Valley, which is an unschooling facility, has ever been coerced or asked to read, EVERY single student has learned to. AND in 40+ years, not ONE Sudbury Valley student has ever been found to have a reading disability or disorder. Not that that presupposes causation, but it is interesting. In Jr. High I went to public school. In science I had not a clue what they were talking about, because the teacher was uninteresting and rude. Our homework mostly consisted of copying definitions from a dictionary onto paper. I received 103% in the class and don't remember a thing about it. This is typical of most of the classes I "had" to take. When I decided to just take what I wanted from the public school (I only went to English, Drama, and Art) I learned so much more. I am a BYU Magna Cum Laude graduate (not that I think grades really mean anything) and I have been accepted to BYU Law. Most of my friends from Aspen Village have found themselves in similar situations. While I do not believe children can be treated just like adults. I also do not believe that excessive coercion will do ANYTHING good for education. God does not use force with us. See D&C 121:41. While this scripture is speaking of the Priesthood, I believe it can apply to anything wherein unlawful (speaking in relation to God's laws) force is used.

Hi everyone! Here's a little bit about me. I am a newly-married (3 years ago, but no kids yet) wife to an amazing man, I was born in the Church and I love it, I start law school in August, and I love all things creative--painting/drawing, acting, dancing, writing, sewing, piano, etc. Glad to be here. It looks like a great, active forum! :)

debrafowler8: I am new as well, but believe the thread you were trying to read may have been on the Open Forum--a forum which has an age limit and which you have to be admitted to (by any of the moderators, I think). I have a similar issue--not with my husband, but I have been hurt by abuse in the past and it still haunts me--and would like to know more as well. If you find how to gain access to the open forum, and/or if you find any useful information, please let me, know. try searching the term 'intimacy' in the forum search engine. I did so awhile ago and found many useful threads about adultery in marriage.