Dr T

Christos, What's 2+2? Dr. T

Hello Christos, If I offended you, I apologize. If you chose to hold the belief that God is able to do anything (even absurdities) then so be it. I would suggest however that you do some reading/education in logic and basic philosophy. I'm also curious as to what you do with verses like Jam 1:13, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Or Tts 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began." Respectfully, Dr. T

I thought those were fun. You're right, the math question was straight forward. Most people however, count add in the thousands and not the hundreds. That's why most people miss it. Dr. T

Ray, thank you for your patience. Would you say the word "after" here is alluding to a prerequisite for salvation by grace or not? What I was getting hung up on was the idea that we are only saved by grace, “following everything WE do.” I didn't read it as saying we are saved because of Gods grace (because of what GOD does) and then we attempt to follow after Him. Do you see my confusion? Thanks, Dr. T

Test for Dementia Below are four (4) questions and a bonus question. You have to answer them instantly. You can't take your time, answer all of them immediately. OK? Let's find out just how clever you really are.... Ready? GO!!! (scroll down) First Question: You are participating in a race. You overtake the second person. What position are you in? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Answer: If you answered that you are first, then you are absolutely wrong! If you overtake the second person and you take his place, you are second! Try not to mess up next time. Now answer the second question, but don't take as much time as you took for the first question, OK? Second Question: If you overtake the last person, then you are...? (scroll down) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Answer: If you answered that you are second to last, then you are wrong again. Tell me, how can you overtake the LAST Person? You're not very good at this, are you? Third Question: Very tricky arithmetic! Note: This must be done in your head only. Do NOT use paper and pencil or a calculator. Try it. Take 1000 and add 40 to it. Now add another 1000 . Now add 30. Add another 1000. Now add 20. Now add another 1000 Now add 10. What is the total? Scroll down for answer..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Did you get 5000? The correct answer is actually 4100. If you don't believe it, check it with a calculator! Today is definitely not your day, is it? Maybe you'll get the last question right.... .....Maybe. Fourth Question: Mary's father has five daughters: 1. Nana, 2. Nene, 3. Nini, 4. Nono. What is the name of the fifth daughter? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Did you Answer Nunu? NO! Of course it isn't. Her name is Mary. Read the question again! Okay, now the bonus round: A mute person goes into a shop and wants to buy a toothbrush. By imitating the action of brushing his teeth he successfully expresses himself to the shopkeeper and the purchase is done. Next, a blind man comes into the shop who wants to buy a pair of sunglasses; how does HE indicate what he wants? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He just has to open his mouth and ask... It's really very simple.... Like you! Just kidding, Dr. T

Rev 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take [it], and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as green Jello. It's in there PC. Dr T

Hey Ray, Sorry for doing this but I don't understand. Your last post did not explain my question. What does the word "after" mean in that verse? and how does your story relate? Sorry. I'm not usually a dense person. I can usually handle concepts. Thanks for your time, Dr. T

Hey Mustangwoman, Thank you for sharing your experiences. You say that you have "gone back and forth between religions." Which ones? During your upbringing, did your parents, although not invovled in a church, point to God in some way? I guess what I'm asking is, "Did they have religious underpinnings that were passed down to you that you can now recognize? Thanks again, Dr. T

Thanks for your reply Mustangwoman. I'm glad, from your perspective, my posts aren't boring and too long. Dr. T

Hello all, On the Advice forum, Franklen posted a thread called "How Can It Be The End." Please read the OP there and then respond to these questions. I didn't want to post my questions there for fear of derailing his thread and changing his focus in a difficult time so I decided to bring it here. (Is this the right place or should I have put it on the Gospel forum?) OK. As you read, basically, Franklen has a very good, female friend. He developed feelings for her and told her he did. She didn’t have the same feelings and subsequently, Franklen found another girl. His friend now feels hurt whenever she sees them together. She told Franklen that she has prayed about it and God told her that “It wouldn’t work out between them” (their friendship). I would like to ask some questions now instead of later because asking later gives confounding variables and time to rationalize any outcome. We often see things 20/20 after the event. I'm not interested in answers that say "Well that was God's plan all along" on this topic (which can be a realistic response but that is another topic). I’m not asking about God’s plans in this thread. I'm interested in how board members understand situations like this and the process before and during the praying. My questions are related to prayer/feeling God's leading. As Franken said, "...she [Rachel] prayed about it and the lord told her things weren't going to work out between us." He now plans on praying and seeking guidance from God on this issue. Here are my questions for the group: (These questions are not meant to be answered one at a time. They were put together as examples of the the process and how one understands the overall concept) How does one know for sure when God communicates to you? How do we know that it is not just a feeling we have used in confirming our own desires? For example, "Rachel" has been hurt by seeing Franklen and another woman together. I assume that Franklen and Rachel have developed an intimate attachment between them and she finds it hard to see him with someone else. How do we know that her feeling is not based on an escape from this pain? What better way than to attribute it to God? (I mean who can argue against God?). Besides, "It wasn't my desire to end our friendship-God told me it wouldn't work and He knows best" type of rationale). What if Franklin prays and gets an opposite message? Both people feel they are talking directly to God and they receive diametrically opposed answers to their prayers, what then? Can we say that these "feelings" were just psychological functions for justifying their own desires? What if he feels God is telling him "to perceiver in this" or the idea that "God wants to teach me something through this so... (add reason/lesson here)." How do you all understand this type of thing and prayer in general? Thank you, Dr. T

Hello kriskriechel, It's nice to meet you. Thank you for your post and for sharing your story with me/us. I look forward to hearing more from you. So you grew up in a church until you moved in with your father. Was that the LDS church or another church? I'm happy to hear that your child was fine after a couple of weeks. That must have been hard for you. Thanks again, Dr. T

Hola Senior, Munchas gracias por este pregunta. Hello all, First off, Serg, if you really want to talk about J.W. topics-I'd recommend going to a J.W. site. IMHO, they are the experts on their own religion and would likely have a deeper and more coherent explanation/rationalization of their beliefs than speculators. I have read quite a bit J.W. literature and regrettably threw away a New World Translation Bible that I had. I have a passion for philosophy of religion and therefore seek out many different religious belief systems in an effort to become aware of others beliefs. I'm curious about your ideas about this question. From what I've read on this site, there is a lot of, "Oh those [insert church name here] are always trying to bad mouth us! They always teach the wrong stuff about what we believe. They're all just anti-Mormon." If this question was posed, in the way it has developed thus far, on a J.W. site directed at LDS beliefs, would that be considered "anti-Mormon"? I'm just trying to understand the similarities and the differences. I am not a J.W. but I can share a little bit about what I do know about their beliefs. Admittedly, these statements are generally addressed and not specific to each individual. They are basically the teachings of that religious background. I'll start with some of their theological views. I caution you to confirm or correct these assertions with a true J.W. -The church was stated by "Pastor" Charles Taze Russell. He was an evangelical turned skeptic. -They view the bible is the written word of God, inspired by God's Spirit. It is the only infallible norm and that it is guaranteed to be without error. -They feel there is no Trinity. Jesus is not God and there is no personal Holy Spirit. -They believe death ends personal existence. They don't believe in the soul. -They hold that there are two classes of Christians. The "anointed" class will go to heaven as spirit sons of God and those that are not. -They believe a "great crowd" will be resurrected on earth and given an opportunity to live on earth forever. This will include all pre=Christian believes and most of those now living. -They believe that there is only one true religious organization (it is administrated by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society). They follow that all believers must submit to this one true organization. -They believe that salvation requires faith in Christ plus hard work. Although not something they readily profess, salvation is ultimately a matter of proving oneself worthy by changing one's life according to the Watchtower organization's directives. -Only 144,000 are "born again." This "born again" is the same as the "anointed class." They are born again as a precondition of becoming spirits in heaven, not as a precondition of salvation. -Christ is invisibly present. He will never actually return to the earth. His invisible presence began in 1914. Well, I’ve gone on long enough. I really need some feedback from you all. I’m new here, I’m having a great time reading and posting but I’m afraid I’m clogging up the board. Have my posts been too long, boring, offensive, etc. Please let me know. I just ask that you speak the truth in love… Thanks, Dr. T

God can't do many things. Anything against His character is an impossiblity. He can't lie, cheat, etc. Dr. T

Hi oaf1984, I doubt you are stupid oaf1984. The question of the tree falling without anyone hearing, appears on the surface a dumb/inconsequential question to many. At the heart of that question though are many important questions and philosophical debate. I don't know how much reading you have done in philosophy but this question impacts many of the great thinkers throughout the ages. WIthout getting into it, this question (just to scratch the surface) calls into examination, rationalism vs. empiricism (or more accurately empiricisms). Rationalists such as Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, etc and empiricists such as Locke, Berkeley, and Hume wrestled with this exact conflict at the heart of their arguments. They were concerned with knowing. This question, although apparently silly to some, has great implications to religious people. It calls into question our concept of "reality, matter, cause & effect, metaphysics (including the notion of substance, properties, essential properties, universals, particulars, etc) the importance of perception, thought, knowledge, innate ideas, belief, truth, justified belief", and so forth. I'll stop boring you now. I just wanted to let you know that there really is a lot to that question. Also, contextually, philosophers risked a lot to address these issues. Hobbes' writings for example were banned and threatened to be burned but more than that, the church wanted to burn him... (it all revolved around this and its implications about God) Sorry if my rant bored you, Dr. T Hi Serg, I see you as a thinker. It seems like it's uncomfortable for you to say that God can not do something. The whole God creating a rock thing is a "logical absurdity". Being absurd, its a non-issue. Are more realistic/logically sound approach is to think about "God can do all things that are logical for Him to do." It's absurd to think He can make a square circle, or create a rock too big to lift, etc. I want to explain what I mean by that word so you do not misconstrue what I'm saying. Absurd means: 1 : ridiculously unreasonable, unsound, or incongruous 2 : having no rational or orderly relationship to human life : MEANINGLESS; also : lacking order or value Thanks, Dr. T

Since it appears that this thread has gotten all the responses it's going to get, I'll ask my questions. I'll start with Ray. You are saying that God's "presence can be felt anywhere and everywhere" can His presence be felt in hell? On what do you base this? You say He has a physical body I thought the Bible says "God is Spirit." Yes I am familiar with the anthropomorphisms like the "right hand of God", etc but if we take that as literal, then should we believe God is a bird too? Please educate me on your ideas. You also say, "Unless we become like God." Wasn't that why Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven? I know, that is a whole other thread... "If you want to go where God actually is, you have to go to the place where He is" I just want to quote that... What about "where two or more are gathered in My name"? or Ps 139:7:12? Looking forward to your ideas, Dr. T

Hey Ray, As for the 2 Nephi 25:23 verse which says, "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." Thanks for your reply to that but I'm having a hard time reconciling what you said and what the verse says. Since you are the LDS expert (and I am sooo not) please educated me then on what the AFTER means in that verse. It doesn't say "and then" or the like-so how did you get what you got from that AFTER in that verse? Just seeking, Dr. T _______________________________________________ “To base thought only on speech is to try nailing whispers to the wall. Writing freezes thought and offers it up for inspection.” Jack Rosenthal in New York Times Magazine.

Hello Ray, Just for clarification, Ray, are you telling me that my reading of that text is “formed, (as in opinions), based upon subjective feelings or intuition, not upon observation or reasoning?” Or did you use the wrong word there? Were you also using that in a pejoritive sense? Finally, just for arguments sake, lets say it was subjective, and you were using it in a derogitory way, how is that “subjective reading” any different than your reading in both paragraphs above? I’m not upset at all and not on the defensive, I’m merely asking as that I can understand where you are coming from with your reply. It helps me get a better sense of the person with whom I’m talking. If, as we read in the BOM, none of the churches were right and they were all apostate, what else could it be than “prevailed against”? If you do not think that it was the foe of God, Satan and his minions, what lead the church astray, Ray? Remember, if you are not for God, you are against Him and doing the work of Satan. Are you not? Please educate my on this. Ok the amount of time could easily be wrong. The real question is do you or do you not believe the church was in apostasy? What is your explanation? I think your using the wrong word (group) here again. The Sanhedrin constituted the supreme court and legislative body of Ancient Israel. I don’t see the connection in your last sentence. Ray, do you use the word “inconceivable” a lot? Just kidding. If you take offense to that joke, I sincerely apologize to you. 1 : to gain ascendancy through strength or superiority 2 : to be or become effective or effectual 3 : to use persuasion successfully <as in prevailed on him to sing> Was this not what Joseph Smith meant when reporting that God said the church was apostate; that Satan had led all astray? Maybe you should define for me what is meant by the word “apostasy” in your church. Having fun, Dr. T

Did he leave out "Under God" in his recitation? Dr. T

Hello Ray/all, Sorry I took so long, I was digging through some of my book boxes to find my LDS books that I picked up while in Salt Lake. In talking to my LDS neighbor in SLC, I read the 4 LDS standard works and other LDS lit. that I picked up at the local DI. As I read and talked to Nate (my neighbor), I wrote some notes. Again, you are the LDS expert and your OP asked for apparent revelation discrepancies. I assure you that you have done much more LDS standard work reading than I have. I'm a beginner, so this may not be correct. From my novice reading though, here was one that I found as inconsistent: The whole concept of grace in the N.T. vs. 2 Nephi 25:23 which says "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." emphasis mine seems like two different revelations. This verse juxtaposed with Eph. 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." I look forward to your reply. Also note, this verse is not talking about the "Faith without works is dead" type idea. One side is saved by grace (period) and the other is adding, "after all we can do." P.S. I really am enjoying this type of dialogue. Thanks, Dr. T

Hello Ray, I have no contention with your reading. It is a common belief that Christ was talking about Himself, not Simon Barjona (Peter/Petros/Rock) that He would build his church upon. This, following the correct proclamation from Peter, that "Thou [Jesus] art the Christ, the Son of the living God" makes the most logical sense when reading this passage in context. As P.C. pointed out Ray, that is not the conflict in this verse. It is about the gates of Hell not overpowering the church. Logically though, if the church was completely out for 1700 years as was suggested by J.Smith-the gates of hell did prevail over the church for 1700 years. These are non-commensurate revelations. Dr. T

N.C. Shan70? I don't hear your accent... Dr. T

Hello Ray, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here. Are you asking for biblical support that is in opposition to Joseph Smith's account? Something like Matt 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Someone could hold up this verse as saying, "Joseph Smith's account of a 1700 years church apostasy (renunciation of a religious faith; abandonment of a previous loyalty) is not biblically supported." They might even go so far as to say, "If Joseph Smith's account is true, then according to Matt. 16:18 God must be a liar." Is that what you are asking for? Dr. T

Krowe, I really am curious why you think I'm brave. Why is that? Dr. T

Is this ultimately what you are seeking to find an answer to in this thread, Serg? If it is, sorry for being redundant. I hate it when people are redundant. When they say the same thing over and over again. When they repeat themselves, again and again. Like a broken record. It's the same thing- time and time again. They just keep repeating themselves, being redundant, saying the same thing over and over again. I hate that... Dr. T

Hello Ross, Thanks for the PM. This would be a good place to start. Thanks, Dr. T