Dr T

Hey Shan70, You do sound conflicted to me. You say you believe in Christianity but you have a hard time with its tenants. You sound like someone from the Unity church or the new age movement. The equifinality idea, "everyone will end up in the same place, we're all just on different roads to get there." You have a hard time seeing God as a benevolent God if He institutes a penalty to His creation. Your last post makes me think of Pascal's Wager. Have you read any of that? I don't take that as a proof of God's existence (because it's not-in my book anyway) but I think it's an interesting concept for you to explore (if you want). Thanks, Dr. T

Thank you all for your ideas on this. Your responses are bringing up other questions for me. I want to wait for other ideas on my OP before I get into those though. I look forward to reading others ideas! Perplexed, Dr. T

Thank you so much Shan70. I really enjoyed reading your ideas on this. I appreciate your honest evaluation and talking about the "milk vs. meat" issue. Appreciating your sharing, Dr. T P.C., Thank you, sir, for answering. Please know that any questions I have on this board is open to all (LDS or not). Like I said, I am learning-if you have something to add-please do so. If it differs from LDS beliefs, again, let me know. That's how we learn. Your post made me curious as to where you were brought up. It sounded like a big JW population. Where was that? Thanks again, Dr. T

What is your take on hell/separation from God? If you believe, for example, that you reside with God in the Celestial Kingdom, but not in the other two levels of heaven, or if you believe in hell as eternal separation from God, how do you reconcile the idea of God's omnipresence (being in all places at all time)? What I'm asking is, "If one of God's traits in omnipresence, is it possible to be separated from Him ever?" THanks, Dr. T

Can anyone explain to me what is meant by, "Christ needing to be saved"? Saved from what? Saved by whom? Thanks, Dr. T

Any more responses (LDS or Non-LDS)? Thanks

It was a fun book given all the suspense, cryptology, and putting puzzles together. It was a page turner. Inaccurate, but fun to read. Dr. T

If it was a "will to power" that he searched for, religion would be a great way to go about it. What would be more powerful than being the direct link to God? The only conduit for "reestablishing" a fallen away church. Able to "speak for God," develop followers, have people look up to you. Buck the traditional system. Financial prosperity, etc. Evidence though... good question. Dr. T

Hi Palerider, Thanks for the welcome. I've enjoyed my interactions thus far. Look forward to more... Anything you can add will be helpful to me. Thanks again, Dr. T

Hi shanstress70, Same question for you. Can you please share? Thanks, Dr. T

Hello Jason, I initially addressed this to the LDS on this board so as to learn about their experience becoming a member. I'm also interested in the converstion away from the LDS church. Can you please answer my OP from your own experience? Thanks, Dr. T

Hello PC, Yes, that is the closest biblic verse. But again, "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is not in the Bible. Just wanted to clarify. Dr. T

Ray, Thanks for the link. I've only glanced at it thus far. It looks really fun! I look forward to reading about the evidences and apparent contradiction responses. Thanks, Dr. T

Hello Ray, When asking about what type of preacher, I ought to have been more clear, sorry. I meant a preacher of which denomination/religion. I got my answer. Church of Christ. Was it the World Wide Church of Christ? The United Church of Christ? Boston Church of Christ? Other? Just curious... I'm sorry to hear that you experienced that with your father. When asked about the means by which you receive answers to prayer you said, What would you say to people who have read the BOM, prayed (sincerely) and did not get the same acknowledgement? Now I'm talking about someone who truly had a seeking heart. Someone who grew up in the church and still didn't get that burning in the bosom. What if they prayed about the Koran and got that same feeling? What if they prayed about the Gita, or about The Book of Satan? I'm guessing many of these people get the feeling and thoughts that their religion is true too. What would you say to them? I'm really not trying to be snide here (although I fear it will be taken that way). I really want to know, did you pray for understanding about everything, so as to feel that it was true? For example, did you pray about gravity? Did you pray about 2+2=4? Thanks, Dr. T

Thanks for your ideas Ray. It's great that you and Snow are friends. I love commerodery-makes for more fun. I'm sure I'll learn a lot here (or at least ask questions to help in my understanding). Dr. T

Hello Snow, It's nice to meet you. It was also a pleasure to read your post. Thank you for the link. That site looks interesting. The thing I really enjoyed about your post was that it went beyond "yes" and "no." It gave me other places to look, gave me examples and it was respectful. I look forward to learning from you. Thanks again, Dr. T

Why do you think I'm brave krowe? When I post my second question to the group can you cut and paste your response on this thread there? Thanks, Dr. T

Mom of JCCHLSM, I hear you, Mom of JCCHLSM. Everything, with respect to mental health issues, is on a continuum... & undoubtedly EVERYONE else's stuff is obviously more weird than our stuff! Dr. T

Thank you Maureen. I'll try this in the future. No relation to Mr. T or Dr. J. Just plain old Dr. T (the non-mohawk having, gold laden, or NBA level athletic one)

mom of jcchlsm, Well done! That is exactly what I am looking for. I appreciate the time you put into your response and I thank you for explaining your background to me. A also love how you broke it down into percentages at different times of development. Also, I thank you for joining the military (in whatever function that may have been). My wife was born in Fort Ord by the way. Thanks Dr. T

Pushka, It really wasn't about doing "work out of hours" I promise. Its more an ethical/legal issue for me. Basic stats, etc. are not a problem though. You will be a good person to answer my next question about what an LDS member would look for in a psychologist. :) Dr. T Heather, That is great! I didn't know there was a site that can produce names based on different variables. I can see you all are waaay more internet savvy/resourceful than I am. Dr. T Nice to meet u by the way MO JCCHLSM, I have a symmetry thing too. this will be our little secret "Does anyone out there think I need therapy????!!!!!???!!" It depends Dr. T

Hello PC, Just a side note. I'm pretty sure there is no "spare the rod spoil the child" proverb. I think that's a common misperception. Just like, "God helps those that help themselves." Let me know if I'm wrong though... Thanks, Dr. T

Thanks Ray, I actually laughed out loud at your "see your charts" comment. No charts here, Sir. That is what I was looking for. On the "Other" I can't be more specific. That is up to responders not me. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth on the emotions felt; those were just starting examples. I see what you were saying though about there being a mixture. What kind of preacher would that be Ray? What were your father and grandfathers reactions when you converted to LDS? With regard to prayer, by what means to you receive an answer? Is it auditory, a feeling, a "God works in mysterious way" and whatever turns out is the message that God has sent? I really appreciate you're willingness to be open with me. Dr. T

Thank you Ray, for your thoughts on this. Unfortunately, the "Yes" & "No" answers you gave are no more validation than the OP. Being part of the LDS church, I expect the "yes and no" answers you provided. These answers are no more evidence than the OP propositions. Here are my inital comments about what you wrote. OK. Which articles? Reference? Any external from the church? Any secular confirmation? Q#6: Have you seen a copy of the first edition of the BOM? Have there been any changes to substantive passages in comparison with that? Is there even a copy of the first edition still available to the public to confirm this? Are we certain that the dictated version has stood from its inception? A#6: Yes. No. Yes. If your “we” includes me, then yes. Where did you have an opportunity to view the first edition? Do I have access to that first edition as a average Joe? Is it purchasable on the internet? If so, where and how much does it cost? Can u point me to a written reference where the two books are held in juxposition for analysis? Can you elaborate. Author/expert, reference? Again, will you please provide me with some reference material beyond the church? That is intereting. Thanks, I didn't know that. What do you mean by fulfilled? I'm sorry- maybe I chose the wrong word here. I meant more along the lines of "SUBSTANTIATE implies the offering of evidence that sustains the contention <the claims have yet to be substantiated>. VERIFY implies the establishing of correspondence of actual facts or details with those proposed or guessed at <all statements of fact in the article have been verified>. AUTHENTICATE implies establishing genuineness by adducing legal or official documents." Maybe these are better words. Now, can has this been done? Where are the was documented? Who confirmed the historical accounts? So you're saying that no prophecies have been proved wrong? Did Joseph Smith lay down his life in meekness like Jesus' account? Ray, thank you for having this discussion with me. I'm sure, like many religious sites, people come here to argue and "prove each other wrong." Mrs.S posted what sounded like concrete, unquestionable proof that the BOM was not fiction. Based on the info we've covered so far, these are still assertions without substantiation. That's all I'm looking for. Thanks for your ideas, Dr. T P.S. I can't figure out how to quote other's posts. How do you do that?

S.F., You big rebel! Hey, the first quote under you signature is from John Lennon. From where did the second one come? Dr. T Mom of JCCHSLM, A mom of 7. Congratulations!!!! Nothing better in my book. What are their names? Dr. T