mordorbund

Members
  • Content Count

    5912
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    16

Reputation Activity

  1. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from MrShorty in What is “Sunday Best”? (Style/symbolism/culture)   
    It does depend on local culture. In Europe and North America it's the horse. The ox and ass are day laborers and on Sunday it's all about transportation. Groom the animal properly the day before and you're good to go. Of course, in South America the Llama might be more appropriate, but back in North America it would be too exotic and detract from congregational worship. I'm told that Australia has not domesticated the kangaroo, so they ---
    Sunday Best ---
    Never mind. I misread the title.
  2. Thanks
    mordorbund got a reaction from romans8 in Lehi and the twelve visitors   
    I think the key is verse 16;
    The 1 and the 12 are not identified in the text that we have today. That means we have to speculate as to their identities and what they directly represent. What we know from the text is that the 1 hands him a book to read and the 12 "came down and went forth upon the face of the earth". We also know what message he took away from his vision and reading:
    (13) Jerusalem will be destroyed (14) God's "power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth" (14) God spares those who come to Him (19) Messiah will come and redeem the world Some possible ways this ties into the identity of the 12 beings could be:
    As a meta-point, the image of 1 sun-luster and 12 star-shines suggests Lehi is a new Joseph-like leader (who was accused of being a "dreamer" and also dreamed of the sun, moon, and 11 stars). The 12 beings are scattering all of Israel across the earth and Jerusalem's destruction fits in that larger context No single being represents anything at all - it is only the number 12 that's significant, representing God's power These 12 are the apostles chosen by the Messiah (in which case their names are the same as those in the New Testament) whose testimony/witness would be spread throughout the world. something else. Feel free to pick your favorite, but the important thing to Nephi seems to be the conclusion.
  3. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from dprh in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    My experience with the Spirit has been similar to what you describe. And my reading of Nephi's account matches yours as well.
  4. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from dprh in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    My experience with the Spirit has been similar to what you describe. And my reading of Nephi's account matches yours as well.
  5. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    What an interesting question. When the Holy Spirit speaks to you does he appear to you or does he speak from heaven? I can think of very few instances in scripture where the Holy Spirit takes a form, so I'm wondering if your lived experience is different.
    As for your question, you can read the story of Nephi and Laban here. The particular methodology is not stated - whether it was an audible voice or a "head-voice" that also resonated in his heart - but follows the standard scriptural formula of having the Spirit "speak".
    As you read of Nephi's interaction with the Spirit, how is it similar or different from your interactions with the Spirit?
  6. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from MrShorty in What is “Sunday Best”? (Style/symbolism/culture)   
    It does depend on local culture. In Europe and North America it's the horse. The ox and ass are day laborers and on Sunday it's all about transportation. Groom the animal properly the day before and you're good to go. Of course, in South America the Llama might be more appropriate, but back in North America it would be too exotic and detract from congregational worship. I'm told that Australia has not domesticated the kangaroo, so they ---
    Sunday Best ---
    Never mind. I misread the title.
  7. Like
    mordorbund reacted to Jonah in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    I don't hear an audible voice but feel promptings of the Spirit.  From reading the account
    of Nephi, it sounds like he heard a voice and responded with his voice (unless he was
    talking to himself).
  8. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from MrShorty in What is “Sunday Best”? (Style/symbolism/culture)   
    It does depend on local culture. In Europe and North America it's the horse. The ox and ass are day laborers and on Sunday it's all about transportation. Groom the animal properly the day before and you're good to go. Of course, in South America the Llama might be more appropriate, but back in North America it would be too exotic and detract from congregational worship. I'm told that Australia has not domesticated the kangaroo, so they ---
    Sunday Best ---
    Never mind. I misread the title.
  9. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from MrShorty in What is “Sunday Best”? (Style/symbolism/culture)   
    It does depend on local culture. In Europe and North America it's the horse. The ox and ass are day laborers and on Sunday it's all about transportation. Groom the animal properly the day before and you're good to go. Of course, in South America the Llama might be more appropriate, but back in North America it would be too exotic and detract from congregational worship. I'm told that Australia has not domesticated the kangaroo, so they ---
    Sunday Best ---
    Never mind. I misread the title.
  10. Like
    mordorbund reacted to Just_A_Guy in Censorship?   
    @Carborendum, I like your analogy of modern social media technology to automobiles.  It’s remarkable how quickly a new innovation or convenience becomes something whose loss can substantially affect one’s quality of life.  
    It may be worth noting that 3H’s recently-resurrected no-politics rule has less to do with either muzzling a certain political persuasion or insulating ourselves against allegations of “inciting resurrection” (edit:  INsurrection) than theological/communitarian concerns.  The discussion was routinely getting “spirited” enough that people were leaving the forum (in some cases, with wounded testimonies), and a decision was made that this particular forum is better off without that kind of thing.
    In a broader sense, on the deplatforming issue:  I agree that Facebook et al have a right to decide who can and who can’t use their service.  The trouble is, they've wriggled out of a lot of lawsuits over the fact that their services have been used in the commission of various torts—negligence, libel, interference with business expectation, infliction of emotional distress, wrongful death—on the theory that “hey, we’re just a public forum—we can’t reasonably be expected to monitor content created by millions of third parties”.
    If Facebook now decides that they can shut down Trump and his most obscene cronies—okay.  But they need to understand that every business owner whose shop was looted in a BLM riot—every Israeli whose kid died in a schoolbus bombing—every Chinese Muslim woman who was subjected to an involuntary hysterectomy by her government—every school kid who lost a scholarship after being falsely called a “racist”—the family of every middle schooler who committed suicide after prolonged cyberbullying—may now be arguing in a court of law that Facebook should be held jointly and severally liable for the lies told and the accusations made and the people radicalized via its users.
  11. Thanks
    mordorbund got a reaction from dprh in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    For @Vort and @dprh
    The first is 20 and the second is 20 too!
  12. Thanks
    mordorbund got a reaction from dprh in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    For @Vort and @dprh
    The first is 20 and the second is 20 too!
  13. Thanks
    mordorbund got a reaction from dprh in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    For @Vort and @dprh
    The first is 20 and the second is 20 too!
  14. Haha
    mordorbund reacted to Just_A_Guy in Hypothetical - living arrangements   
    Well . . . Did she arrive in the far-away town as a mail-order bride?  Inquiring minds want to know!  
  15. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    What an interesting question. When the Holy Spirit speaks to you does he appear to you or does he speak from heaven? I can think of very few instances in scripture where the Holy Spirit takes a form, so I'm wondering if your lived experience is different.
    As for your question, you can read the story of Nephi and Laban here. The particular methodology is not stated - whether it was an audible voice or a "head-voice" that also resonated in his heart - but follows the standard scriptural formula of having the Spirit "speak".
    As you read of Nephi's interaction with the Spirit, how is it similar or different from your interactions with the Spirit?
  16. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in 1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49   
    What an interesting question. When the Holy Spirit speaks to you does he appear to you or does he speak from heaven? I can think of very few instances in scripture where the Holy Spirit takes a form, so I'm wondering if your lived experience is different.
    As for your question, you can read the story of Nephi and Laban here. The particular methodology is not stated - whether it was an audible voice or a "head-voice" that also resonated in his heart - but follows the standard scriptural formula of having the Spirit "speak".
    As you read of Nephi's interaction with the Spirit, how is it similar or different from your interactions with the Spirit?
  17. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from Carborendum in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    None of them if the connection keeps timing out.
  18. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    Sounds like you're looking for a variation on Morton's Fork. I don't think that's what the manuals are describing though.
    We belong to a global church with millions of members. There are bound to be exceptional circumstances. The question as I see it is whether a given circumstance warrants an exception to some principle. I can't find the quote (maybe I can get an assist) but Elder Oaks mentioned in an interview that as general authorities they share general counsel to the Church which we then go and implement in our specific instances.
    For the first example you share, the Church is teaching "this is the general counsel, if you are a special exception then you had better speak with God about whether this still applies to you." The individual is to have a council meeting with God. Just like any other council meeting counsel is offered, objections are freely raised, and direction is given. From my own experience, I've learned to embrace President Monson's love for the Mark Twain line, "you can't pray a lie." If I share with God the conflict I have over selfish reasons, I'm unable to carry my request very far. If, in the course of such counsel the Lord verifies that your specific case is an exception, then that is for you only and is not to be turned into a general principle. Not knowing any different, I assume the Lord directed Steve Young to forego his priesthood responsibility to serve a full-time mission. But that doesn't relieve me of such a duty.
    That said, I think Steve Young is the exception. I've had a few occasions where I've voiced my concerns and the general counsel has been reiterated as applying to my circumstance.
    "Steve Young played football instead of serving a mission!"
    "I'm not trying to figure out what God wants from Steve Young. I want to know what God wants from me!"
    This is a conversation I'm starting with my teenage children. Reflecting on my own life I noticed in grade school that people outside the Church had different standards than my family. As a teen I was confused that other members of the Church had different standards from my family. After graduation I was no longer confused but recognized that other members have different standards than I do. I've shared these reflections with my children so they can be prepared to uphold family standards when they see these differences.
    As for tithing, or energy drinks, or dating age, you have standards for your family. If it's something you're flexible on you can let you children participate in the council process, being sure to invite God in. If it's not flexible, you let them know that this is a family standard and train them to listen to God's guidance as they develop more autonomy.
    In a class discussion for teens, teach them what I just wrote - that it's a decision their parents can help them with as they try to ascertain God's will. If it's adults - I trust that we're all mature enough to be comfortable with our choices. Again, I don't particularly care what Brother Young has agreed with God to do.
  19. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    Sounds like you're looking for a variation on Morton's Fork. I don't think that's what the manuals are describing though.
    We belong to a global church with millions of members. There are bound to be exceptional circumstances. The question as I see it is whether a given circumstance warrants an exception to some principle. I can't find the quote (maybe I can get an assist) but Elder Oaks mentioned in an interview that as general authorities they share general counsel to the Church which we then go and implement in our specific instances.
    For the first example you share, the Church is teaching "this is the general counsel, if you are a special exception then you had better speak with God about whether this still applies to you." The individual is to have a council meeting with God. Just like any other council meeting counsel is offered, objections are freely raised, and direction is given. From my own experience, I've learned to embrace President Monson's love for the Mark Twain line, "you can't pray a lie." If I share with God the conflict I have over selfish reasons, I'm unable to carry my request very far. If, in the course of such counsel the Lord verifies that your specific case is an exception, then that is for you only and is not to be turned into a general principle. Not knowing any different, I assume the Lord directed Steve Young to forego his priesthood responsibility to serve a full-time mission. But that doesn't relieve me of such a duty.
    That said, I think Steve Young is the exception. I've had a few occasions where I've voiced my concerns and the general counsel has been reiterated as applying to my circumstance.
    "Steve Young played football instead of serving a mission!"
    "I'm not trying to figure out what God wants from Steve Young. I want to know what God wants from me!"
    This is a conversation I'm starting with my teenage children. Reflecting on my own life I noticed in grade school that people outside the Church had different standards than my family. As a teen I was confused that other members of the Church had different standards from my family. After graduation I was no longer confused but recognized that other members have different standards than I do. I've shared these reflections with my children so they can be prepared to uphold family standards when they see these differences.
    As for tithing, or energy drinks, or dating age, you have standards for your family. If it's something you're flexible on you can let you children participate in the council process, being sure to invite God in. If it's not flexible, you let them know that this is a family standard and train them to listen to God's guidance as they develop more autonomy.
    In a class discussion for teens, teach them what I just wrote - that it's a decision their parents can help them with as they try to ascertain God's will. If it's adults - I trust that we're all mature enough to be comfortable with our choices. Again, I don't particularly care what Brother Young has agreed with God to do.
  20. Haha
    mordorbund got a reaction from Carborendum in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    None of them if the connection keeps timing out.
  21. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    Sounds like you're looking for a variation on Morton's Fork. I don't think that's what the manuals are describing though.
    We belong to a global church with millions of members. There are bound to be exceptional circumstances. The question as I see it is whether a given circumstance warrants an exception to some principle. I can't find the quote (maybe I can get an assist) but Elder Oaks mentioned in an interview that as general authorities they share general counsel to the Church which we then go and implement in our specific instances.
    For the first example you share, the Church is teaching "this is the general counsel, if you are a special exception then you had better speak with God about whether this still applies to you." The individual is to have a council meeting with God. Just like any other council meeting counsel is offered, objections are freely raised, and direction is given. From my own experience, I've learned to embrace President Monson's love for the Mark Twain line, "you can't pray a lie." If I share with God the conflict I have over selfish reasons, I'm unable to carry my request very far. If, in the course of such counsel the Lord verifies that your specific case is an exception, then that is for you only and is not to be turned into a general principle. Not knowing any different, I assume the Lord directed Steve Young to forego his priesthood responsibility to serve a full-time mission. But that doesn't relieve me of such a duty.
    That said, I think Steve Young is the exception. I've had a few occasions where I've voiced my concerns and the general counsel has been reiterated as applying to my circumstance.
    "Steve Young played football instead of serving a mission!"
    "I'm not trying to figure out what God wants from Steve Young. I want to know what God wants from me!"
    This is a conversation I'm starting with my teenage children. Reflecting on my own life I noticed in grade school that people outside the Church had different standards than my family. As a teen I was confused that other members of the Church had different standards from my family. After graduation I was no longer confused but recognized that other members have different standards than I do. I've shared these reflections with my children so they can be prepared to uphold family standards when they see these differences.
    As for tithing, or energy drinks, or dating age, you have standards for your family. If it's something you're flexible on you can let you children participate in the council process, being sure to invite God in. If it's not flexible, you let them know that this is a family standard and train them to listen to God's guidance as they develop more autonomy.
    In a class discussion for teens, teach them what I just wrote - that it's a decision their parents can help them with as they try to ascertain God's will. If it's adults - I trust that we're all mature enough to be comfortable with our choices. Again, I don't particularly care what Brother Young has agreed with God to do.
  22. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    Sounds like you're looking for a variation on Morton's Fork. I don't think that's what the manuals are describing though.
    We belong to a global church with millions of members. There are bound to be exceptional circumstances. The question as I see it is whether a given circumstance warrants an exception to some principle. I can't find the quote (maybe I can get an assist) but Elder Oaks mentioned in an interview that as general authorities they share general counsel to the Church which we then go and implement in our specific instances.
    For the first example you share, the Church is teaching "this is the general counsel, if you are a special exception then you had better speak with God about whether this still applies to you." The individual is to have a council meeting with God. Just like any other council meeting counsel is offered, objections are freely raised, and direction is given. From my own experience, I've learned to embrace President Monson's love for the Mark Twain line, "you can't pray a lie." If I share with God the conflict I have over selfish reasons, I'm unable to carry my request very far. If, in the course of such counsel the Lord verifies that your specific case is an exception, then that is for you only and is not to be turned into a general principle. Not knowing any different, I assume the Lord directed Steve Young to forego his priesthood responsibility to serve a full-time mission. But that doesn't relieve me of such a duty.
    That said, I think Steve Young is the exception. I've had a few occasions where I've voiced my concerns and the general counsel has been reiterated as applying to my circumstance.
    "Steve Young played football instead of serving a mission!"
    "I'm not trying to figure out what God wants from Steve Young. I want to know what God wants from me!"
    This is a conversation I'm starting with my teenage children. Reflecting on my own life I noticed in grade school that people outside the Church had different standards than my family. As a teen I was confused that other members of the Church had different standards from my family. After graduation I was no longer confused but recognized that other members have different standards than I do. I've shared these reflections with my children so they can be prepared to uphold family standards when they see these differences.
    As for tithing, or energy drinks, or dating age, you have standards for your family. If it's something you're flexible on you can let you children participate in the council process, being sure to invite God in. If it's not flexible, you let them know that this is a family standard and train them to listen to God's guidance as they develop more autonomy.
    In a class discussion for teens, teach them what I just wrote - that it's a decision their parents can help them with as they try to ascertain God's will. If it's adults - I trust that we're all mature enough to be comfortable with our choices. Again, I don't particularly care what Brother Young has agreed with God to do.
  23. Thanks
    mordorbund reacted to Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2005-05-01/elder-dallin-h-oaks-the-dedication-of-a-lifetime-91589
    The explanation I gave that man is the same explanation I give to you if you feel you are an exception to what I have said. As a General Authority, it is my responsibility to preach general principles. When I do, I don't try to define all the exceptions. There are exceptions to some rules. [...] But don't ask me to give an opinion on your exception. I only teach the general rules. Whether an exception applies to you is your responsibility. You must work that out individually between you and the Lord.
  24. Like
    mordorbund got a reaction from Vort in "It's between you and God (but you better pick right)"   
    Sounds like you're looking for a variation on Morton's Fork. I don't think that's what the manuals are describing though.
    We belong to a global church with millions of members. There are bound to be exceptional circumstances. The question as I see it is whether a given circumstance warrants an exception to some principle. I can't find the quote (maybe I can get an assist) but Elder Oaks mentioned in an interview that as general authorities they share general counsel to the Church which we then go and implement in our specific instances.
    For the first example you share, the Church is teaching "this is the general counsel, if you are a special exception then you had better speak with God about whether this still applies to you." The individual is to have a council meeting with God. Just like any other council meeting counsel is offered, objections are freely raised, and direction is given. From my own experience, I've learned to embrace President Monson's love for the Mark Twain line, "you can't pray a lie." If I share with God the conflict I have over selfish reasons, I'm unable to carry my request very far. If, in the course of such counsel the Lord verifies that your specific case is an exception, then that is for you only and is not to be turned into a general principle. Not knowing any different, I assume the Lord directed Steve Young to forego his priesthood responsibility to serve a full-time mission. But that doesn't relieve me of such a duty.
    That said, I think Steve Young is the exception. I've had a few occasions where I've voiced my concerns and the general counsel has been reiterated as applying to my circumstance.
    "Steve Young played football instead of serving a mission!"
    "I'm not trying to figure out what God wants from Steve Young. I want to know what God wants from me!"
    This is a conversation I'm starting with my teenage children. Reflecting on my own life I noticed in grade school that people outside the Church had different standards than my family. As a teen I was confused that other members of the Church had different standards from my family. After graduation I was no longer confused but recognized that other members have different standards than I do. I've shared these reflections with my children so they can be prepared to uphold family standards when they see these differences.
    As for tithing, or energy drinks, or dating age, you have standards for your family. If it's something you're flexible on you can let you children participate in the council process, being sure to invite God in. If it's not flexible, you let them know that this is a family standard and train them to listen to God's guidance as they develop more autonomy.
    In a class discussion for teens, teach them what I just wrote - that it's a decision their parents can help them with as they try to ascertain God's will. If it's adults - I trust that we're all mature enough to be comfortable with our choices. Again, I don't particularly care what Brother Young has agreed with God to do.
  25. Haha
    mordorbund reacted to NeuroTypical in Lame Jokes, the Sequel   
    A TCP joke:
    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJn5jLjb/