mordorbund

Elder Oaks told the story of a veteran who came to him, more than a little concerned that, as a soldier, he had broken the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" because of a talk that he, Elder Oaks, had given at the last conference. The apostolic response was, "we give general counsel". A conference or other talk is not individual advice, and no one should take it as such.
And, I ask again, what does he (or she, if you insist) want the Brethren to do? Stop telling us to get married?
Lehi

So, what does this writer want "our leaders" to do or say?
Do they control any one but themselves? Are they supposed to find mates for all the singles in the Church?
And, especially for men, what are they, individually, doing about changing their own plights?
This may appear heartless, I can't change how any reader sees this, but again I ask. What does he expect? If he had his dearest wish granted, how would it change his world?
So, what "is being taken on when an LDS man marries" that is different for this guy (or these guys) compared to what I took on, or any other LDS man? Is the commandment to multiply and replenish not valid any more? Are we no longer supposed to tell men to stop hanging out, start dating, and get married, because marriage is a sacrifice?
I didn't see an answer, nor did I see a real suggestion as to how this problem could be solved. This morning, in our High Priests' Group meeting, one brother made, essentially, the same complaint (on behalf of his single brother), and, like this article, long on chiding, long on pleading, but missing entirely was anything practical anyone, the Brethren, a bishop, or I could do, beyond being sensitive.
I'm not going to yell at anyone because he's not married. Gotta son who is single (no fault of his, as his ex-wife has told him, my Jacquie, and me many times), and I understand the frustration of his being single. But that hasn't made him start ranting at the Brethren to change the whole Church so he won't feel affronted at every meeting. And, while he's not quite ready to marry again, he recognizes that he most likely will at some point, and he's doing the kinds of things that will allow that to happen.
Lehi

I'm not a convert, but I did go through a period of inactivity and soul-searching, during I married my Evangelical husband.  He is VERY anti-tithing to any church, including his own (says "it's my money").  As I've become more involved in church again, and further strengthened my testimony, tithing has been a thing of much prayer search for me.  I am now comfortable with the idea because:
1)  It really isn't my money.  Saying that it's "my money" is like my 2 year old saying that they are "her fries and I can't have any"-- in reality I'm the one who bought the fries, gave them to her, and I could literally drown her in fries if I wanted to.  Her giving me one of "her" fries is about her showing thankfulness and a lack of pride.  It's the same as tithing.
2) If we are unwilling to depart with are money for Heavenly Father... which are we really having being our god?  
3)  My family of 3 lives well below poverty rates.  But... we're ok.  Honestly, I feel that we have plenty and more than we need.  Us Americans are spoiled rotten: we don't really need fancy cars, fancy TV's, and all the junk we have.  I look at other places, the way people live in 3rd world countries... and I am spoiled rotten.  I have been given so much, and I too should give.

The desire for death may mask God’s loving purpose for us. Most readers probably know of someone who has either died by suicide, or was deeply hurt by someone else who had. Here are some 2013 facts from the CDC: There were over 41,000 suicides in the U.S. Just over one-third of them test positive for alcohol, 24% for antidepressants, and 20% for opiates and prescription pain medications. Sobriety may be the most underrated mental health goal there is!
 4% of adults had thoughts of suicide—with the highest rate being the 18-24 year-olds, at 7.4%. Over 1% made a suicide plan, and again, that rate was much higher—2.5%--in the 18-24 year-old group. Among 9th-12th-graders the rates of suicidal thoughts are much worse—at 17%.
 The horror of suicide is all too common. So, what does the Bible say about it? The two main examples of suicide in scripture are men who had turned away from God. In the Old Testament, King Saul had disobeyed God by sacrificing animals and taking bounty that He had declared off-limits.  He furthered his treachery by repeatedly trying to kill God’s choice to replace him—David. Saul was wounded in battle, and asked his armor-bearer to kill him. Ironically, the servant knre this was wrong and would not do it. So, Saul fell on his own sword.
 In the New Testament, Judas Iscariot had betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.  While he shows he regretted his betrayal by returning the money, his final act is also one of defiance against God. He hanged himself.
 Suffering and hurt are real, but isolation and abandonment are lies from the pit of Hell. Like Saul and Judas, Elijah was afraid. He had just called down fire from heaven, and destroyed 400 of Baal’s prophets. The queen, rather than repenting, issued a death warrant for Elijah. This proved to be the sucker-punch that drove the prophet to suicidal ideation. He asks God to take his life.
 What happens next is insightful. God sends an angel to feed the prophet, and assure he gets plenty of rest. After a few days of this, Elijah’s perspective and faith are restored.
 We must never feel shame about taking time to care for our physical and emotional needs. Self-care is not selfish. It allows us the restoration we need to serve God and our loved ones well!
 Even after Elijah’s restoration, he remains downcast. He believes he is the only one left, who is faithful. We must not underestimate the suffering, the frustration, and the sense of hopelessness people feel! On the other hand, if we are the ones discouraged, let us not forget that God is never dormant, and we never see the full picture of what He is doing.
 Elijah learns that there are 7,000 who remain faithful, and that God plans to use his successors to destroy his enemies. In fact, these conquerors are already prepared to exact the Lord’s vengeance.    
 What if King Saul had trusted God, and obeyed his command to kill the animals and enemy king? What if Judas had kept faith, & seen Jesus’ resurrection?  What if we believed that all things work together for good to us, who love God?
 Jesus says He is the Life. We who love Him must live. Faith destroys depression, defeat, and death. Suicide is defiance against God. Life,and yes suffering, will gain us the victor’s crown!
To see on linked in and access a link to a podcast of all 4-parts of my death series see:  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/suicide-life-tommy-ellis?trk=hp-feed-article-title-publish

I'm sorry Lehi, but you are involved in an one man argument. You are mixing different issue in this thread together. I will try one more time to clarify. I follow your arguments about the texts from the dictionary regarding angels and men. That is one of the issues being discussed in this thread, but it is not the only issue. In my OP I also gave some responses to Carborendum's question about the differences between God and angels. In my response to this question I referenced Rev. 5 to say that the angels are part of the created order, but God is not. Based on this text I wrote that the implication was that God was uncreated. Vort disagreed. She thinks that is my inference, but not an implication of the text. Again, the discussion about Rev. 5 has nothing to do with the difference between angels and men or worshiping angels. This was a separate discussion about the difference between angels and God. In response to this separate discussion you wrote,
Clearly, you thought that I was referencing Rev. 5 to argue that angels and humans are distinct. You are mixing the two different discussions in this thread. The discussion about Rev. 5 is about the difference between angels and God, not angels and humans. The rest of the posts are about angels and humans. When I tried to point out your misunderstanding you continued to argue against a position nobody here has expressed. You wrote,
Do you see that you are mixing conversations here?

I was about to offer some sage advice (I mean, top-quality stuff that I should be charging money for) when I realized you could just go and do what Jane did and solve your problem yourself. And then where would I be? WHERE WOULD I BE?!!! Right where you are now.
I'm breaking the cycle for the good of this thread. I have no answers for you - no suggestions.
 
<sniff> Don't look at me like that. I have to be strong enough for the both of us right now.

I was about to offer some sage advice (I mean, top-quality stuff that I should be charging money for) when I realized you could just go and do what Jane did and solve your problem yourself. And then where would I be? WHERE WOULD I BE?!!! Right where you are now.
I'm breaking the cycle for the good of this thread. I have no answers for you - no suggestions.
 
<sniff> Don't look at me like that. I have to be strong enough for the both of us right now.

I was about to offer some sage advice (I mean, top-quality stuff that I should be charging money for) when I realized you could just go and do what Jane did and solve your problem yourself. And then where would I be? WHERE WOULD I BE?!!! Right where you are now.
I'm breaking the cycle for the good of this thread. I have no answers for you - no suggestions.
 
<sniff> Don't look at me like that. I have to be strong enough for the both of us right now.

I was about to offer some sage advice (I mean, top-quality stuff that I should be charging money for) when I realized you could just go and do what Jane did and solve your problem yourself. And then where would I be? WHERE WOULD I BE?!!! Right where you are now.
I'm breaking the cycle for the good of this thread. I have no answers for you - no suggestions.
 
<sniff> Don't look at me like that. I have to be strong enough for the both of us right now.

Perhaps I can shed some light that comes to us through revelation to our modern LDS prophets.  According to revelation given to us in the Book of Abraham; we learn that following the encounter Abraham had with his father about the evil of Idols, Abraham was taken by the priests of that heathen nation that worshiped the “dumb” idols to which Abraham preached as false idols of “strange” g-ds and Abraham was to be sacrificed upon the alter of the priest of Pharaoh (along with other human sacrifices).  At the last moment the angel of G-d delivered Abraham and destroyed the false priests engaged in idol worship.
This is one of many classic epochs of idol worship clashing with the worship of the True and Living G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  Some of the other epochs are documented in scripture as the major epoch of Noah, Moses and the deliverance of Israel from Babylon.  Some of the common elements are that the covenant of G-d were in bondage of heathen nations that worshiped false and “dumb” G-d.  That G-d sends a deliverer that “redeems” them that they may worship, by covenant the True and Living G-d.
There is a premise (not exactly accurate) that G-d can be worship in a heathen nation of dumb idols in the privacy of one’s home or in their hearts.  Moses is a type and shadow of the evolution of true worship as he stood before Pharaoh (Exodus 5) and commands Pharaoh to let the house of Israel go from Egypt to worship G-d through celebration of feasts and sacrifices.  It is necessary that the people leave Egypt and gather among themselves to do this.  This is according to the worship of G-d and contrary to the worship of dump idols.  This can only be done, as demonstrated in the epoch of Moses, through a deliverer sent by G-d (Moses) and the redemption (payment of ransom) by G-d that the people can be redeemed and allowed to worship G-d.
Skipping over some parts that are most important but I leave out to get us to worshiping G-d and not dumb idols.  Moses is commanded first to construct and tabernacle and then many generations later – a temple in order to separate the worship through covenant from the indulgence (payment) worship of dumb idols.  We learn that this payment to false G-ds is given a name in revelation given to LDS – this name is “Priest Craft” which is a false worship given to all as a “tax” that reside in heathen nations.  There are other examples in the ancient literary works of tax going to dumb g-ds of which Baal is of some prominence in Jewish and Christian scripture.   
 
The Traveler
 

Dunno 'bout a new round of Manifest Destiny, but it would definitely firm up the federal nature of this republic.
I love deadlock. It helps assure that we're not being harmed. (If I could, I'd implement 250 more federal holidays, so the bureaucrats would just stay home where they aren't actively undermining liberty.  I love it when O'bama goes to Camp David for golf: he's not hurting us there.)
Further, it would have been marvelous if the vice president had been anyone other than Algore 'cuz he cast the deciding vote to raise tax rates in '93. Having a voice opposing the president sitting in the presidential chair in the senate would almost always be a good thing, even when that president is on "my side" of the argument (which rarely happens, since I favor freedom, and most politicians are slave-owner wannabes).
My crystal ball is no better than yours. I don't see it that way, exactly, but I can see how it might work out like that.
The goal of a OSOV system would be to strengthen the states, and to weaken the federal government. I'm in favor of anything that advances that agenda. I'd even like to eliminate he Senate altogether, and move all the powers now granted this body of narcissists directly to the states (who would choose how to exercise these powers, e.g., governor's approval, more numerous legislative house approval, referenda, ad hoc committees — it doesn't matter as long as the state is in charge).
Lehi

A lot of people are fighting for their marriages because they value them, they value the concepts of commitment and family, and they love their children and don't want those precious little ones to be damaged by not having a their father or mother in their home.
Marriage is far more than a convenience, a license to have sex. Marriage is the foundation of civilization.
Marriage is worth fighting for.
Lehi

I thought you wanted to talk about the apostasy....  it is best to stick to one topic.

On January 21, 1836,Joseph Smith saw a vision in the Kirtland Temple.
 

Generally speaking when someone comes and ask "Should I talk to my bishop about this?"   The correct response is "That would be a good question to ask your bishop about."
There is a simple reason for this...  Your bishop can speak authoritatively we can not.
If you want this to continue to nag you throughout you mission and cause you to doubt...  Then do nothing.  If however you want to get it behind you then you need to bring it up ande get it dealt with before you go.

On January 21, 1836,Joseph Smith saw a vision in the Kirtland Temple.
 

On January 21, 1836,Joseph Smith saw a vision in the Kirtland Temple.
 

Off topic:
I have a similarly close friend. My ideal day with him would include the following things I've never done with him before:
giving each other wheelbarrow rides arm wrestle each other (can you believe we've never done this?! We've done chess, checkers, basketball, but never arm wrestling). now that I mention it, thumb wrestling licking his elbow (he's licked my nose before) piggy back rides shaking his hand at the end of the day (we've had hugs and high fives, but never shook hands)

That's why the cow never made it back.  Poor cow.

I could be wrong on this, but it is my sense that most of us who are conservative #NeverTrumpers were not swayed by media. We watched him debate, heard him speak, and yes, know of his record and reputation (prior to his political ascent). We don't like him, don't trust him, don't believe him to be steady, or moral. We were not talked into this perspective. We came to it. We mentally processed, but also had gut reactions. It's amazing how easy it is for me to talk to liberals these days. They start to editorialize on Trump, and I sigh, and say, "I happen to be conservative (or Republican), but I hear you loud and clear." They pat me on the shoulder and say, "There...there."  Of course, as they leave, I can hear a mild snicker.
Anybody else remember when BC was Before Christ, instead of the fleeting hope of a Brokered Convention???

That's why the cow never made it back.  Poor cow.

That's why the cow never made it back.  Poor cow.

I shared this testimony on Facebook today. I thought I would also share it here. I was thinking about how most of the interactions between Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints center on the our beliefs. The discussions/debates are typically about doctrine / theology / biblical interpretation / church history, etc. These are very important, but they do not tell the whole story. I do not want you to get the impression that my walk with God is merely an intellectual endeavor. This will give you a glimpse into the experiential elements of my walk with God.

I came to Christ in November of 1996 at the age of 21. At that time I was often riddled with anxiety about life. My mind was continually occupied with worry. I did not know what it was like to have internal peace. After a morning church service one Sunday early in 1997 I went home and fell asleep. As I slept, I had a dream from the Lord.
In my dream I was in our church building at night. Nobody else was present. All the lights were off and the darkness was so thick that I could not see my hand right in front of my face. I sensed that there was danger in the darkness. Fear permeated my body and mind. I seemed to know that there were evil spirits throughout the room. I was paralyzed with fear. I could not see. I was straining to see or hear where the danger was at. In my dream I remember being afraid to take a single step lest I walk into a trap. I crouched to the ground trying not to make any noise. Fear was coursing through my body. All my muscles were tense. My heart was racing. That is when I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Trust me." As soon as these words came to me I closed my eyes and all the fear and tension left my body and mind. Immediately I had complete peace.
This exact dream was repeated two more times in succession. As soon as the peace permeated my body and mind the third time I awoke from the dream. It is not possible for me to adequately express the experiential contrasts in the dream. I went from fearful paralysis to perfect peace in an instant.
Several years later I came across a text in Isaiah that I have often meditated on. Isaiah writes,
I have not lived under the tyranny of anxiety for a long time now. What a great privilege we have as children of God. We have access to the Father anytime, anywhere. All we have to do is lift our eyes and rest in His love and sovereignty. When we do, his peace fills our souls. There is nothing like walking with our great God!

And winning only five: California, Texas, New York, Ohio, Illinois, and one other. (Other combinations, as long as they include the first three, will also work.) There will always be fools who vote for the popular candidate even in states where sanity usually prevails.
The electoral college is absolutely  mandatory to prevent a total tyranny of the majority. Not that we don't have it already, but it's not complete, as O'bama and others-who-shall-not-be-named ardently desire.
Lehi

Overruling state court holdings re title of Mormon land, or mobilizing federal troops to escort the Mormons back to Missouri, would have been beyond the federal government's scope; but Congress can throw money at anyone and Van Buren could have greased some wheels in that regard.  He, and most of the Congressmen that Smith met, chose not to.