dahlia

I just got 'Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism.'  I have read about Freemasonry ritual and see the connections, so I thought this would be a good read since it brings Mormonism and Freemasonry together.
 
My question is this:  I don't care if the Freemason ritual was adapted by Joseph Smith. He was a man of his time and he used what he knew. No problem. I don't think any less of him. However, it seems that when you mention this connection around born Mormons, they get a  little freaked out.
 
Why is this? There's nothing really hidden about this - you can easily find books on the topic, just as I did. Could they have gone their whole lives thinking Smith made this stuff from whole cloth? Is it shocking? I've read that some Mormons get weirded out after they go to the temple the first time, because they aren't used to ritual (compared to Catholics or Orthodox Jews, for example) and they don't know how to deal with it. Is an inability to deal with where temple ritual probably originated part of the same problem? 
 
I find it all very interesting and love learning about Mormon history, but sometimes it seems that the western Mormons aren't told a lot about history, then when they learn it, they lose their testimony or become less active because they think they were lied to.
 
I'm not knocking anyone; I'm just curious about something I've noticed.

I don't think I've changed my mind about anything (OK, maybe about being baptized  ), but I have enjoyed and learned from others' responses here. As a convert, I often feel like a bear of very little brain when it comes to Mormon culture and doctrine, so I come here to be informed. I can't think where the information has changed my mind on anything substantive, though.

Boy, a million and one things to spend hundreds of hours on, and the OP spends it on learning about evil spirits. Not chemistry, not art, not literature, not agriculture, not the light, but the dark and evil spirits. Sigh.
 
I guess I go two ways on this. I don't spend a lot of time thinking or talking about the Adversary. I don't give him a lot of room in my life. On the other hand, I do think that we can create good or bad atmospheres in our home by what we bring in, what we spend time on, how we speak to each other, etc.
 
This may not be the best way to deal with it, but I live hundreds of miles away from toxic family members because they are toxic and I don't want them in my daily life. I stay away from people with a lot of drama. Are they evil? No, they're just people who can't handle their issues, BUT, depending what those issues are, you can get friggin' killed hanging around some folks, so I stay away (that's the Philly girl talking. You guys probably don't have homicide-level drama in Utah).
 
As for "Parley P. Pratt called electricity a “spiritual fluid.” meaning anything, people called electricity all kinds of things in the early days. What one person, not a scientist, called it is meaningless. I taught about early technologies and technology/utility polices and worked on tech policy in a think tank. I know more than a little bit about this topic.  Men used to think women and blacks shouldn't work with electricity. I'd as much believe or be influenced by what Pratt said about electricity as I would be by what Captain Kangaroo said about nuclear physics. Jeez.

Boy, a million and one things to spend hundreds of hours on, and the OP spends it on learning about evil spirits. Not chemistry, not art, not literature, not agriculture, not the light, but the dark and evil spirits. Sigh.
 
I guess I go two ways on this. I don't spend a lot of time thinking or talking about the Adversary. I don't give him a lot of room in my life. On the other hand, I do think that we can create good or bad atmospheres in our home by what we bring in, what we spend time on, how we speak to each other, etc.
 
This may not be the best way to deal with it, but I live hundreds of miles away from toxic family members because they are toxic and I don't want them in my daily life. I stay away from people with a lot of drama. Are they evil? No, they're just people who can't handle their issues, BUT, depending what those issues are, you can get friggin' killed hanging around some folks, so I stay away (that's the Philly girl talking. You guys probably don't have homicide-level drama in Utah).
 
As for "Parley P. Pratt called electricity a “spiritual fluid.” meaning anything, people called electricity all kinds of things in the early days. What one person, not a scientist, called it is meaningless. I taught about early technologies and technology/utility polices and worked on tech policy in a think tank. I know more than a little bit about this topic.  Men used to think women and blacks shouldn't work with electricity. I'd as much believe or be influenced by what Pratt said about electricity as I would be by what Captain Kangaroo said about nuclear physics. Jeez.

Considering that the germ theory of disease didn't really gain tractioin until the mid to late 19th century, I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the statements of 19th century apostles regarding causes of disease.
 
Considering that most germs are essentially invisible to lay people, and would have been unkown to the average person more than 100-150 years ago, I see no reason to think that the "evil spirits" spoken of by pre-20th century people are not essentially the same thing as "germs" today.

It can be hard to feel the Spirit when you're wearing a full-face respirator, triple gloves and dripping with bleach, but it's manageable.

Well, I'll say one thing for him; he's got more people praying than any President I can remember.
 
Granted, a lot are praying that he'll go away and take Biden with him, but still.

The further east coast you go, it seems Mormonism is a special breed.

Wow. I can't imagine knitting, much less doing crafts, in church. Why don't I just sit there with my iPod and listen to music? I'll only use 1 ear bud, so I'll pretty much catch what the speakers are saying, right? Like others, I've been to churches of many denominations, I have yet to see anyone knitting during services. I suspect in some of the hard core black evangelical churches, one of those church ladies dressed in white would come and snatch that stuff out of your hands. And how distracting for the people sitting next to you! Too rude.
 
I have to restrain myself from asking people to leave RS with their mewling kids when I'm speaking. Though I understand why the babies are there, that doesn't stop me from finding ti quite rude that people don't quiet their kids or that they walk around the room with a noisy baby while I'm speaking (and that goes for anyone else giving the lesson, I'm an equal opportunity curmudgeon).  

Wow. I can't imagine knitting, much less doing crafts, in church. Why don't I just sit there with my iPod and listen to music? I'll only use 1 ear bud, so I'll pretty much catch what the speakers are saying, right? Like others, I've been to churches of many denominations, I have yet to see anyone knitting during services. I suspect in some of the hard core black evangelical churches, one of those church ladies dressed in white would come and snatch that stuff out of your hands. And how distracting for the people sitting next to you! Too rude.
 
I have to restrain myself from asking people to leave RS with their mewling kids when I'm speaking. Though I understand why the babies are there, that doesn't stop me from finding ti quite rude that people don't quiet their kids or that they walk around the room with a noisy baby while I'm speaking (and that goes for anyone else giving the lesson, I'm an equal opportunity curmudgeon).  

Aren't there online missionaries? Didn't Hyena start talking to elders online?
Anyway, lm0913, there are a lot of former Catholics on this board (myself included), so you aren't the only one who has had these feelings. There must be something about Mormonism that speaks to us.

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

Me too, I was packing his, even though he had started high school (I didn't approve of the bottom of the barrel, US Dept of Ag feed the kids garbage' lunch at school, so I made his lunch every day until he graduated. I did let him enjoy Pizza Fridays. 
 
He says he wants children, but I wonder if he will be too set in his ways not to deal with the commotion and mess with a heavy hand.
 
It took him a while to find his purpose. I think that, though he always worked, he couldn't see himself supporting a family and doing what he wanted on the little money he was making. Once he started to see a career path, he became more open to marriage. 

Personally, I have always found it absurd to think that you can group people by their birth decade and then assign a bunch of personality characteristics to them on that basis. I always rejected the stupid "baby boomer" label for precisely this reason. Now it has become a sort of media pastime to make up new and ever stupider names for those born in succeeding decades.

Wow!  That sounds so happy!   I hope they get good wedding presents!  Our neighbor gave us a set of rusted steak knives I'm pretty sure he had stored in his garage for 40 years.  He wrapped it with a pretty bow though.....

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.
 
 

My little boy, my 37 yr old pumpkin, is engaged!  I think they will get married at the end of next term.
 
They've been dating 2 years, she's a doctoral student as well - in education statistics, for crying out loud. Petite (former gymnast), a blond Swede to match my son's 20% Finnish background (we got tested).
 
She actually came with me to a church activity. I'd say the two of them are what I understand to be 'dry Mormons.' They like a lot about the Mormon lifestyle, but aren't ready to make the commitment, but culturally, at least, there's a meeting of the minds on modesty, family night, preparedness, homeschooling, the role of the father in the family, etc., which is good. Actually, other than homeschooling, this is pretty much how we lived before I converted. I'm glad he wants to repeat it in his own family, whether he's in the Church or not. 
 
She's 28 and ready to have babies (her words), so, perhaps I'll be a nana before they put me in the assisted living facility.