CHowell

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  1. This is an excellent question. Before I can give this an honest answer. I suppose I need more information about how the LDS church views who Jesus Christ is and what his purpose in the world was ?
  2. Here's my struggle, there's no verse in the actual text that says they couldn't pro-create either. If one were to leave it as a standing question...I could accept that. But the actual text before the Great Fall says to go out and multiply in numbers (Paraphrasing). To arrive at an interpretation that they couldn't pro-create before the Great Fall, I think one has to consult outside resources, namely I am presuming the ones you just cited. But those outside resources say something different then the actual text says. And therefore a belief system is built on doctrine outside the Bible.
  3. Carlimac, I think that this is an Excellent question. I personally don't believe & see any inconsistencies in the Bible. I think that sometimes our understanding and I know very well my understanding sometimes leads me to believe that their are inconsistencies, but I think at this point one needs to consider, who was the Book written to, why was it written, what is happening in the time period. A good example is the Gospels, many people point to these and say verse for verse they're not the same. Well no they're not, does this make them inconsistent. I don't so. When one studies the Gospels we see that Matthew, Mark, Luke & John had very different audiences they were written to and for. Therefore the authors key in on what's key for their audiences. But they don't conflict each other, confliction would be if Matthew said Christ was born to a virgin, and Luke said Christ was born not to a virgin. I would be more then happy to examine each inconsistency you see and discuss it with you.... Where would you like to start ?
  4. But here's the problem... You're accepting the living Prophets word. Why does a living Prophet have to tell you this. All believers in Christ receive the Holy Spirit and are in communion with God. Everyone is capable of direct revelation from God. The Prophet is a man and is quite capable of making mistakes. So how can one be sure that he doesn't mistakenly misunderstand the revelation from God and pass on bad information? The short answer, is if you believe that the Bible has mistakes in it because man wrote it, then you have to accept that this Prophet can mistakenly misunderstand the what parts of the Bible are God's word and man's word. Even with direct Revelation from God, which we're all capable of, and can receive daily because of the Holy Spirit, we can still mistakenly misunderstand God's Revelation because we're Human and imperfect. Do you really want to trust that you haven't or your prophet hasn't mistakenly misunderstood what parts of God's Word are God's and which part aren't. Or do you want to just accept the Bible as 100% God's word ?
  5. Sorry Maureen, spelling mistake. I am not saying that men wrote the Bible against their will at all.
  6. If you believe the truth, and I believe the truth....And their can only be 1 truth, how do we arrived at it without argument, or debate ? Should I merely abandon my position ? How then can I be sure that you're not blind and leading me and we'll both fall into the ditch ? The problem I have with your argument and your abandonment of me is this. You believe I am wrong, and you're truly serving God therefore you tell me that I am wrong. I believe you're wrong and I believe I am truly serving God. Paul & Christ called us to be Christ like, well Paul went and argued and debated people in the Synagogues until they through him out and attempted to kill him. I love you enough and I don't really know you. That I am willing to debate you all through the night. If you're merely going to throw me out of the Synagogue which one of us is really serving God ?
  7. Absolutely I believe that they had no knowledge of Good & Evil before they partook of the fruit. I think you're assuming here that they had no knowledge. Knowledge in and of it self I don't think is inheritently good or bad, of course they had knowledge, Adam walked with God, it's reasonable to assume that God was teaching Adam. Adam named the animals. Also, i have some other questions based on the underlying/implied argument that God did not intend for the fall to happen. I would suggest that the Scripture is 100% right on here. I don't believe for a second that God was blindsided by anything. I believe that God gave man free will and permitted Sin to happen. He allowed us to turn away from God, which was an ability and a freedom in God that we had before the great fall because it was clearly exercised in the great fall, which also stands to reason then they had the knowledge required to turn away from God. God didn't make them do it, He didn't cause the sin, but he knew before man was on the earth man would sin. God knew man would fall. He didn't want it to happen, he didn't make it happen. The problem I have with this supposition is that it assumes that God intends for us to sin, and/or commit transgressions against him. I can't accept this. Because God is a loving father, if you had a child and you put the child in a plastic bubble and never allow anything bad to come to then and face them. Are you really giving them free will ? I would have to say here God is all knowing, and didn't plan for the sin but knew the sin was going to happen and therefore had a response already prepared. No problem. Good questions.
  8. Defiantly men inspired by God wrote the Bible. You'll get no argument from me there. Furthermore that men and women are imperfect and capable of making mistakes. AGAIN no argument there. Firstly The Bible isn't translated time and time and time again, as some would believe. Translations are related directly back to the original texts. This argument seems related around the fact that, the Bible was Inspired when it was written, however has since no longer been inspired and therefore God didn't have his hand in the modern day Bible, therefore we can't trust the Bible as it's translated today. So if we can't trust the Bible as it's translated today Then why does the LDS refer to SOME scripture and not other scripture ? Is that some scripture is still valid while other isn't ? Again I 'll ask the question how is this determined ?
  9. How do you decide which parts are Man's word and which words are God's how does the LDS, firstly know and secondly differentiate between the two ?
  10. Trolling eh ? Is that what you feel like I am doing ? This is interesting why is it, that people get upset by the questioning of LDS faith ? I think that if we don't question our faith, ask questions of God, have people challenge us, how do we really know what we believe and why we believe it. If we don't do this then don't why just have blind faith ? Suppose I was interested in joining the LDS church, but I find it conflicts with what I believe in from a strong Christian up bringing. You've effectively just said we'll welcome you when you stop challenging things. I am not looking for trouble...I am legitimately asking questions that I find challenging and couldn't find the answers in other resources. So who to come to, but the people of the faith. As representatives you've basically said, stop. I've listened and reflected on everything and anything someone has said. Which has driven more questions ? How is that wrong ? So I have 1 final question. If the LDS church really believes that their way is the right way, and other Christian faiths are mistaken. Shouldn't you be interested in saving me ? In helping me ? In answering my questions ?
  11. Continuing on in my questions of how and what the LDS church believes compared to what the Bible teaches us. Again I found this on the Mormon.org website. “Will I go to heaven?” Yes! God will judge all men fairly and reward them appropriately with a place within His kingdom This is very troubling to me. 1. What is meant by this ? 2. Can people have higher places in heaven ? 3. How is it thought that God determines this ? The Bible teaches that men will all be judged fairly and no man can be saved by works so that nobody can boast about their status in Heaven. Even if one would argue that the Bible is misinterpreted or changed or whatever. Knowing how evil and wicked, and self serving man kind is. Surely if we changed the Bible for our own motivations. One would have thought to leave this in so that I can know that I have to do works to improve my standing in the Kingdom of heaven. This seems like a big one to me. Yet nowhere am I instructed to do works, (This next part is important). TO IMPROVE my standing in the Kingdom. We are told that we should do works in service to Christ because we LOVE God and God's children. But not to earn ourselves a reward in heaven.
  12. I am not trying to force you to do anything. You're free to do what you want to worship what you want. That's the beauty of Free will. I never said that revelation from God meant nothing, So I think what you're doing is you're getting upset and accusing me of things I didn't say based on your worldview and your misinterpretation of what I was saying. Revelation from God does mean a lot. I have never received revelation, motivation, or any information from God that was inconsistent with his word, the Holy Bible. If anything the things God is saying to me are so closely bound to scripture. I do believe that the Bible is 100%. I don't need God or the Bible I need both together. Sometimes God reveals things to me through the Bible, sometimes God reveals things in my life at a point based on some scripture I've read or I am about to read. I find it absolutely astonishing that God can work in my life and then back it up with his word when I read the Bible. I see reading the Bible as meeting an old friend a Holy friend, a father, for coffee. He tells me about himself and teaches through his Word. I go and apply it. But just because I am not reading the Bible when I pray doesn't mean that what God says to me in prayer or answer there of is any less relevant. Why do you feel that you need revelation from God or the Bible ? Yes God can most certainly act in your life without the Bible talk and have a relationship with you, however that doesn't mean we don't need his Word. Really ?? that's tragic what parts don't you believe and why ? I merely asked the question & I have MANY more where I believe the Bible conflicts with the the LDS faith. I have to believe the Bible because it is the Word of God. But to say that you don't need to reconcile a bean of Bible doctrine with anything....is troubling why not ? This would seem to suggest that the LDS church wants to distance itself from the Bible and not rely on the Bible as the Word of God....Is this true ?
  13. I will address this in a bit. I want to careful look at exactly what you say as to not give you an incomplete perspective. Do you expect them to ? Have you looked at the history behind the Gospels, why they were written the significance of who they were written to. I have a ton to say on this. So I'll get back to this post and Don't want you to think I am ignoring you. You are correct God didn't write the Bible, but God is perfect and under God's perfect inspiration man wrote the Bible. Therefore you cannot say that The Bible is not the way God intended it to be. If the Bible is the way God intended ti to be then it is the word of God.
  14. I'll be happy to provide you with specifics at lunch or when I am done work.
  15. I certainly would never make the mistake of thinking that I am God, nor would I believe that you should ever put any man above God in your life. What I am doing is challenging your understand and your interpretation because God my heavenly father as suggested to me that this isn't right. Now how can we both pray to God and get conflicting answers ? We can't God's to perfect to tell me one thing and say it's right and tell you another things and say that I am wrong. I am merely seeking to clarify and understand. Do you not think the same argument applies to my point of view ? This is a pretty damming attack. Why are you getting all personal on Christians ? Do you have any idea where my faith is ? Do you have any idea what I believe or what my relationship with the Heavenly father is. More or less you've just said that I don't have one, and I am worshiping the Bible like all other Christians. To quote yourself.... "Who made you God and gave you this insight" ? Again the personal attacks. Why ?