jcob

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Everything posted by jcob

  1. The Bible says not to believe every spirit. When I read Galatians 1:8 it seems apparent that that even an angel from heaven could preach something false. How did he tell you? Was it a feeling? The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9
  2. Thats fine. Again, I only wanted to talk doctrine. But one last sincere question for everyone. What if anything would it take for you to no longer believe that your organization is true? Does evidence even matter once you begin to trust in your feelings?
  3. No, just the opposite actually. I think we should all be reading the scriptures. Its just someone told me that only a prophet can interpret Gods word. But the evidence shows that Gods word is open for everyone to understand. Of course you need to have Gods wisdom at the same time, which he promises to those who ask (James 1:5).
  4. So you would actually put your trust in a man? "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" - 1 Corinthians 2:5 "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." - Psalm 118:8
  5. I couldnt get the first URL to work. The second one used Mathew 23:34 & Amos 3:7 as justification for modern prophets. Mathew 23:34 Jesus is speaking to the Jews. He said that he would send them Prophets who they would persecute and kill. He did send them the apostles who were persecuted and killed. Read vs 36 for context. Amos 3:7 The word "nothing" must be interpreted by the context. Amos 3:1-7 refers to God bringing judgment against His people Israel because of their sin. And He says He will do "nothing" (to punish or judge them) without warning them through his servants the prophets first.
  6. Actually I only had about 4 people in the entire congregation say hello to me, so I wouldnt say I was the "goto" person. I wouldnt trust me either, Jesus said "let no man decieve you". Rather then sidestepping the issues can we talk about the doctrine.
  7. Agreed, but they were still interpreting the Old Testament without a Prophet.
  8. I dont do it to bring anyone down. Its becouse I am genuinly interested in comparing the doctrines of the Bible with what I learnt growing up. Im happy to answer questions anyone else has about my faith to. I prefer if we talk about the doctrine rather than my reasons for comparing the doctrine.
  9. No, the people at my Church are amazing, they arnt bashing anyone. They glorify the Father. When I look at them I see tax collectors (see Luke 18:9-14) when I look at LDS I see people trying to make themselves righteous (see Philipians 3:9). Im just interested to expand my knowledge, but I do recognize I am bringing up touchy subjects.
  10. I acknowledge that this was my error. Always good to learn. But still interested to hear your take on the rest of the scriptures. I understand the Church was built on a foundation of prophets and apostles, but does a foundation keep building? When the apostles replaced Judas, they specifically chose two disciples who were witnesses from the time of John the baptist to the resurection (see Acts 1:15-22). When Paul was called to be an apostle, he became a witness of the resurection. It seems that their testimony was very important in their roles. Should not everyone who claims to be an apostle share the same "eyewitness" testimonies so that we know they arnt following cunningly devised fables? (see 2 Peter 1:16)
  11. Thanks. I didnt realise this. The only thing is I left the LDS church a month or so ago and only attended another Church for the first time last Sunday. So it would appear that it was rather the mormon curriculum which failed me. Also love how you make the distinction between Christians and Mormons. I thought you were supposed to be Christian? Looks like the Church teaching failed you aswell. : )
  12. I believe the unity of the faith is reffering to the Jew and the Gentile (see Galatians 3:26-28). If you believe that Prophets are needed until their is only one denomination, how do you reconcile this with the idea of a total apostasy. If Prophets were given forever then surely you must have to throw the total apostasy doctrine out?
  13. Mathew 21:33-37 "he sent his servants" "But last of all he sent unto them his son" Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached" Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy" Ephesians 2:20 "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" Ephesians 4:11- "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets" "Till we all come in the unity of the faith" (See Galatians 3:28) Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son"
  14. Just to summarize my arguement, see below. Please let me know your thoughts on each point. Somebody said to me that I can’t interpret Scripture and that only the Prophet can interpret Gods word. They used 2 Peter 1:20 to support their argument. “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” Personally I believe that if Peter was telling us that we could not privately interpret scripture he might have said: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is [for] any private interpretation.” Context supports the idea that he was speaking of the origin of prophecy (not the apostles own minds and ideas, but inspired of the Lord through the Holy Spirit). “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” – 2 Peter 1:16 “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” – 2 Peter 1:21 - In Acts 17:11 a group of people were commended for searching out the answers in the scriptures. - The Bible teaches us how to discern who a false prophet is by the way of various tests (Deuteronomy 18, Isaiah 8:20, Jeremiah 23:14, Jeremiah 28:9, Mathew 7:15 etc) What use are these tests if only a prophet can interpret the meaning of them? - Peter affirmed that Pauls writings were scripture (2 Peter 3:16). What gave the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, etc. the right to interpret Pauls letters, since none of them were Prophets? Perhaps you dont need authority to understand Gods word? - I would like to hear how you might interpret James 1:5 and Proverbs 2:6? Personally I see this as: God gives us his wisdom (ie. the capacity to comprehend) but we gain knowledge and understanding through God's word. - Most Christian denominations agree on interpretations of the majority of Biblical scripture to do with the essentials (Salvation). The Churches which usually disagree on doctrines are: - Churches that claim to have a man or Prophet who is the exclusive interpreter of scripture - Churches that claim the Bible is full of errors / mistranslations - Churches that claim that the writers were not all inspired by God
  15. Exactly, thats why I would hold the Scriptures in higher regard than a spirit or heavenly being.
  16. Your argument goes against what Garry was saying. And its a pretty far stretch in my opinion.
  17. My opinion is that by now it was to late for Joseph Smith to remove what it said in Jacob 2. If you go to the Joseph Smith papers website Doctrine and Covenants, 1835 - Summary View you will see that polygamy was originally banned in D&C (then known as The Book of Commandments). This was later removed by Joseph Smith in future editions of the D&C. "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." - The Book of Commandments (now known as D&C) page 251 The Book of Mormon in itself is a fairly Christian book. Its the D&C which stems away from Biblical teaching. It appears deceptive. Abstain from all appearance of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
  18. John D. Lee an LDS bishop had at least 19 wives.
  19. How can you use this defence? Joseph Smith didnt have any children to any of his other wives. The passage says that the Lord will only command polygamy if he wants to raise up a seed. If Gods sole purpose in restoring polygamy was to "raise up a seed unto me" then why did Joseph Smith marry other wives, without having children with them? Something else to consider is that DNC 132 only allows for plural marriage to a virgin. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and many others were married to widows who had children. So he is in breach of the revelation.
  20. "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1 What do you suppose we use as a foundation to try and compare the spirits against? I suggest the words of the eyewitnesses in the scriptures. What specifically were you refering to in Ephesians 4?
  21. We do have a more sure word of prophecy. Not cunningly devised fables, but eyewitness accounts of of our Lord Jesus Christ (see vs 16). If only the prophet can determine the interpretation of Scripture that teaches us how to discern a false prophet, then how could I ever know that he is a true or false prophet? Of course any revelation which is contrary to Gods word is not from the Holy Spirit. Paul said that we can trust the gospel over an angel from heaven (Galatians 1:8). The scriptures hold authority over any heavenly being. If the spirit asked you to murder a little girl walking down the road. Would you do it? I wouldnt becouse I know that it is wrong according to Gods word. Hence the scriptures hold higher authority then a spirit or heavenly being.
  22. Somebody said to me the other day that I cant interpret Scipture and that only the Prophet can interpret Gods word. They used 2 Peter 1:20 to support their arguement. But in context all this is saying is that Scripture does not come from any private origin (from the apostles own minds) but is inpired of the Lord through the Holy Spirit. In response I said that it is through Gods word that we gain knowledge and understanding (Proverbs 2:6). If we dont have the capacity to understand the scriptures ourselves then we can pray for the wisdom to understand the scriptures (James 1:5). In Acts 17:11 some people were commended for searching the answers in the scriptures becouse they did not believe the apostles. And finally, the Scriptures teach us how to discern a false prophet. So if I need the prophet to interpret for me then I could never know if he is a false prophet. Any more thoughts, im not sure I have him convinced yet. Is there some support I am missing?
  23. “it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things.” – 2 Nephi 2:11. Why do we need opposition?
  24. Satan generally does not remain in the presence of light (Moses 6:57 “no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence”). Dwell means to reside permanently. Im talking about the pysical presance of Satan in his spirit form. I dont believe he can enter the temple. My reasoning for this: I was told by the temple presidents counselor before having my endowment “the reason that the most sacred ordinances are kept for the temple, is because Satan cannot come in here”. The Holy Ghost confirmed it to me. Thomas S. Monson called it a "sacred sanctuary" in the April 2011 general conferance. Michael Ballam - "we realized that we had to guard against him, and keep him away from us. How did we do that? By playing music around which he’s uncomfortable. He is uncomfortable around the presence of light. Reading great works of literature that are inspired, reading the scriptures, having art work in our home’s that depict the light side. Make him uncomfortable.” S. Michael Wilcox shared this symbolic quote about the temple “I stand with my little sword of Justice and all the enemy seems to pile over the hill, like an old western movie. And I look and I say Father I cannot stand against all these temptations and trials I’m gonna be swept away. And the Lord says “then retreat, come home, come into my place of refuge, put your sword down, there are no battles to be fought in here, no enemy penetrates these walls, rest.” I always feel the spirit while listening to this part of the talk. Although he has influenced you while you were in the world, I do not believe he can be within the walls of the temple. I believe someone can enter the temple with an unclean mind and an impure heart, not neccesarlily to do with Satan, just our tendancies as humans to commit sin.