MrShorty

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  1. Like
    MrShorty reacted to ZealoulyStriving in No in-betweeners?   
    As I've begun, for the first time, to read the Journal of Discourses, I have come across tidbits that are helping me to erase any assumptions I may have had about eternity and progression. My ultimate answer? I just don't know but God is really, really merciful- I trust Him.
  2. Like
    MrShorty reacted to estradling75 in No in-betweeners?   
    Before the Kingdoms of Glory were revealed to us... The same type of question was asked about the dividing line between Heaven and Hell.  The best in Hell and the worst in Heaven weren't that much apart yet there rewards were starkly different.
    Now the Lord has revealed the Three Kingdoms of Glory showing that not all receive the same rewards...  We don't know much about the Kingdoms of Glory except that the Celestial Kingdom appears to have an internal difference of rewards between the Exalted and the rest.
    Therefore to me the revelations of the Three Kingdoms of Glory is a giant clue bat that we should stop thinking that the Heaven/Hell model or the Kingdom's model is an all or nothing type deal in the Lord's plan.  But rather its more of a spectrum.  Sure there are lines drawn but the reward/punishment change is gradual as you move through it. 
     
  3. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Everyone is a Convert in Not your usual 'I'm having trouble wearing garments' post   
    Thank you for sharing. This is the first post I have ever read something that speaks to the issue plainly. I am in a similar situation, in which wearing in the garments day and night is medically impossible. I always agonize about going in for a new temple recommend for this reason alone. As I was praying and pondering, I felt the distinct impression that Heavenly Father knows my heart. I fell further at peace and will plan to use your recommended phrase, “No. I don't wear them 24-7 for medical reasons, but I do my best and wear them when I can." 
    Thank you for having the courage to share your story and experiences with others. 
  4. Like
    MrShorty reacted to laronius in No in-betweeners?   
    So assuming the glory we inherit is relative to our faithfulness, will there be no one whose faithfulness is greater than the moon and yet less than the sun? This is what I'm trying to get at. It seems like there would be people all along the spectrum of faithfulness and yet the imagery suggests there are some pretty significant gaps in that spectrum. Perhaps that thinking is wrong and I'm totally open to other interpretations. But if it's not wrong, what is the cause for those gaps in faithfulness?
  5. Like
    MrShorty reacted to laronius in No in-betweeners?   
    While our beliefs entail a much broader spectrum of salvation (three kingdoms of glory with perhaps many levels of glory within them) as compared to the heaven and hell belief of most Christians, I still find it interesting that there is still such a significant chasm between the kingdoms of glory, at least as the imagery implies: sun vs moon vs stars. Their difference in glory is vast. This would seem to imply that no one is going to just barely miss one kingdom. If you are only worthy of a lesser kingdom then you are still quite a ways off from being worthy of the greater kingdom. 
    If that conclusion is accurate (and I'm equally interested in what you think if you feel it's not) then there must be a rather significant distinction in worthiness for there not being necessary a middle ground of worthiness, something in between the sun and moon and stars. For example, we know those in the Terrestrial Kingdom are labeled as not valiant in the testimony of Jesus whereas those in the Celestial Kingdom are. Will there not be anyone who is only sorta valiant, more than those in the Terrestrial but not up to snuff compared to the Celestial?
    It's not something I had considered in the past but it does strike me that there must be a good answer out there somewhere, maybe in one of your noggins. Hopefully.
    I guess what my question boils down to is if you believe there really is such a significant gap, what makes it so? Or if you think the top of one kingdom is close to the bottom of the next kingdom, why the imagery implying otherwise?
  6. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Vort in LDSGator 1:1-2   
  7. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Deseretdog in Deseretdog   
    Greetings!
     
    Investigator here..
  8. Like
    MrShorty reacted to NeuroTypical in Is this forum dying?   
    I've noticed a slow and steady decline across my favorite 3 LDS-themed message boards (and half-dozen Facebook groups) starting before COVID.   One of them is now pretty much totally dead.  Thirdhour has certainly slowed a bit, but is still kicking.  The trick is to look for all new messages here: 
    https://thirdhour.org/forums/discover/
     
  9. Like
    MrShorty reacted to laronius in Kirtland Temple!   
    In fast and testimony meeting today (had stake conference last week) a sister got up and related that her parents are missionaries back in Kirtland, OH. She said that during the meeting between the churches to discuss the sale of the temple a guy in attendance from the Community of Christ was seriously opposed to the sale and really wanted to raise an objection to it. But he said the Spirit restrained him so he could not object and a voice spoke to him saying "This isn't your temple or their temple. It's my temple." 
    Assuming that's a true account of events, it would seem that the Lord is yet mindful of these descendants of early Church members and that He cares about how they feel about these things. There may yet be a reconciliation in the future. Perhaps in Independence.
  10. Like
    MrShorty reacted to The Folk Prophet in Kirtland Temple!   
    I'm not sure that's the end all of the temple recommend question though. When I'm asked if I keep the Word of Wisdom and say yes it's in light of no coffee, tea, alcohol, or tobacco usage. But..... I often consider whether my eating and drinking choices are in alignment with the Word of Wisdom and make adjustments. I don't think if I confessed that I sometimes have drunk too much Dr. Pepper that any church leader would say, "Well...then we can't issue you your temple recommend, garumph, harumph." But that doesn't mean it's all hunky-dory for me to be pounding 300oz of the stuff in a day.
  11. Like
    MrShorty reacted to estradling75 in Kirtland Temple!   
    Indeed. 

    I have some issues with the whole idea.  If I am doing a transaction with some one, the ideal of Capitalism and Christianity would be that we both got good value in the exchange.  AKA it was a Win Win.

    This mindset tells me I can't do an exchange with someone if they might Win and they might do something with that win that I do not like.  That sounds like a very dark side of Capitalism and not very Christian at all.

    Don't get me wrong, working with someone that shares your values makes the Wins even better but that can be very isolationist if that is all whom you will engage with.
    In this case I have no issues whatsoever.  In the Book of Mormon, Nephi talks about there being 2 Churches only.  Church of God and the Church of the Devil.  Now clearly we think our Church as the Church of God...  But I can't say the Church of Christ is the church of the devil...  I have to classify it as also a Church of God.  One with lesser light and truth, sure, but still in the group.  And with that mindset why wouldn't we engage in a transaction that benefits both?  Seems very Christ-like to me
  12. Like
    MrShorty reacted to NeuroTypical in Kirtland Temple!   
    It's an interesting dilemma, but one I had to abandon decades ago.  It used to bug me that this or that gas station got their oil from this or that nation that occasionally spoke about their duty to kill Americans, or clothing produced in nations that make use of child or slave labor.  The mortal, secular rules that govern the earth at this time just make it impossible to participate in civilization without doing occasional business with your enemies. 
    Our church has historical tidbits about making food (and beer) from our own farms only, but I haven't heard anything like that in like a century.
     
  13. Haha
    MrShorty reacted to NeuroTypical in Likely daguerreotype (photo) of Joseph Smith discovered.   
    Everyone knows the Jack Chick Tract images of Joseph are the most accurate.

     
  14. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Vort in Kirtland Temple!   
    I think this is rather more similar to buying a gallon of milk from a store that also sells cigarettes and booze. Engaging in a financial transaction could certainly be considered "supporting" someone or something, but that's a problematic stance to take for an organization that does not want to be isolationist.
  15. Like
    MrShorty got a reaction from Vort in Kirtland Temple!   
    As an outsider, I'm not sure I can really say what they believe or don't believe. I observe that, up through Pres. W. B. Smith in the 1990's, they wrote their "revelations" in the D&C as if it was the voice of God speaking. Sections added by Pres. McMurray and Pres. Veazey are more circumspect and less obvious about being in the voice of God. I don't know what that might mean for the tangent we are on, but I make the observation.
  16. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Vort in Kirtland Temple!   
    Perhaps I would have better said that they don't believe in modern revelation in the sense preached throughout the Restoration—that is, that God reveals Himself to His prophets. They certainly believe in revelation such as inspiration and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which puts them in the same class as most of the rest of modern Christianity.
    You may still disagree with this, and maybe you're right, but right or wrong, that would be a better reflection of what I intended to communicate.
  17. Like
    MrShorty reacted to NeuroTypical in Kirtland Temple!   
    Daniel Peterson has a few personal anecdotes to share about the CoC.  It's a pretty interesting read.
    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2024/03/a-few-more-thoughts-on-the-kirtland-temple-deal.html
     
  18. Like
    MrShorty reacted to pam in Kirtland Temple!   
    I think that's why the Church is being very selective in what they say and how they say it. They realize that this is a sad time for those of the CoC. 
  19. Like
    MrShorty reacted to JohnsonJones in Kirtland Temple!   
    The CoC SHOULD BE A WARNING about the dangers of trying to go with mainstream Christianity.
    The Churches that are staying with their more traditional teachings and values are (in general) staying stronger with their membership (though most are also still declining if it is a larger church) than those that have tried to "modernize" and "mainstream" their various religions.
    I think the Temple in Missouri (theirs) will be one of the last things they would let go, and 190 million will keep them going for a good while at least. 
    Interestingly enough, this is similar to one of the original divisions within the Islamic religion.  The question of whether the successor to Mohammad should be his son Ali or a council of others.
    This caused a division in the religion that has animosity between the both sides from back then during the division to the present day.
    At least we are not angry and violent towards each other like the divisions of Islam caused.
  20. Love
    MrShorty got a reaction from pam in Kirtland Temple!   
    If it might interest anyone, this short (3 minute) video features Apostle Lachlan Mackay of Community of Christ sharing his feelings regarding this transaction.
     
    I'm not sure why this seems important to me. Maybe just to remind us that, while our branch of the Restoration is celebrating today, another branch of the Restoration is probably experiencing some mixed emotions.
  21. Like
    MrShorty got a reaction from mordorbund in Kirtland Temple!   
    If it might interest anyone, this short (3 minute) video features Apostle Lachlan Mackay of Community of Christ sharing his feelings regarding this transaction.
     
    I'm not sure why this seems important to me. Maybe just to remind us that, while our branch of the Restoration is celebrating today, another branch of the Restoration is probably experiencing some mixed emotions.
  22. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Vort in Are the Gold Plates in a cave somewhere?   
    The hill near the finger lakes region in eastern (upstate) New York that we call "Cumorah", where Joseph Smith first unearthed the plates of Mormon, is a drumlin—an enlongated, roundish hill composed of debris piled up by and left over from the actions of glaciers that retreated at the end of the last ice age, 13,000 or so years ago. Its structure is not like e.g. the mountains in Utah. You will not likely find limestone caverns in a drumlin. While I suppose it's possible there is some sort of large cave in the modern hill Cumorah, I doubt it, and don't see any convincing reason to suppose there is.
  23. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Vort in Kirtland Temple!   
    I find this unlikely for several reasons:
    The Bible is perhaps our strongest contact with "traditional" Christianity, a commonality we would be loathe to lose. The JST was never proclaimed as complete. On the contrary, it's a sporadic mishmash of retranslation, interpretation, and doctrinal additions and changes. I think it would not be especially useful as the Bible is used today to try to use the JST as a regular Bible version. The Church has used a non-JST Bible throughout its history. That's what people know. You don't easily just give that up. (This is sort of an extension of the first bullet.) Saints have often complained about the shortcomings and difficulties inherent in using the KJV. The JST preserves all those perceived shortcomings and adds others. Whatever insights Biblical scholarship might add (e.g. the Dead Sea scrolls) would largely be mitigated by a slavish adherence to the JST. (Bonus point: The existence of the JST itself argues against "slavish adherence".)
  24. Like
    MrShorty reacted to Traveler in Kirtland Temple!   
    Just a little bit of history – as I have experienced.  In my college years I, with a few return missionary friends, embarked or a Church history vacation one summer.  Our encounter with our religious LDS neighbors was bitter and disappointing and left a very bad taste in my mouth.  In my youth, I blamed everything on who we called the Reorganites.   Over the years this bitter relationship has softened. 
    One of the doctrines that has sustained some bitterness has been our stand on the priesthood being exclusively for men.  The Community of Christ currently has women apostles.  There was some bitterness over blacks and the priesthood.  Not so much concerning the blacks and the priesthood but the Community of Christ suffered a great division over women and the priesthood.  They have never been solvent economically since that division. 
    The LDS Church has financed the Community of Christ to maintain our common interest in historical properties.  It was never sustainable – especially for the Community of Christ.
    A few years ago, my wife and I (with some local friends) again made a trip through Church History.  My personal encounter with the Community of Christ was like meeting with beloved long separated family members.  I spent a day with one of their general authorities (president of the 70’s).  I was privileged to go with him through their private vault of artifacts accumulated form the beginning and dating back to the time we were not separated.  With their new focus on “The Community of Christ”, he tearfully confessed to me that they did not have the resources to maintain the artifacts of history.  It was not just the finances but the human resources as well.  We openly discussed the possibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints carrying this baton to the finish line when the Messiah comes.
    The bitterness between our religious institutions seems to be the one factor no longer a concern.  I am grateful that our brethren in Christ have carried this burden so well and nobly for so long.  I am grateful that the properties will now be restored to what they need and ought to be – a treasure for the Saints to enjoy during the millennial reign.
     
    The Traveler
  25. Like
    MrShorty got a reaction from rcthompson88 in Kirtland Temple!   
    If it might interest anyone, this short (3 minute) video features Apostle Lachlan Mackay of Community of Christ sharing his feelings regarding this transaction.
     
    I'm not sure why this seems important to me. Maybe just to remind us that, while our branch of the Restoration is celebrating today, another branch of the Restoration is probably experiencing some mixed emotions.