imanuelga

Was is the same gospel for the jews before Christ and after? Look at this story in the book of 1 King: 1 KING 13:1 *¶And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. 2 *And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. 3 *And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out. 4 *And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him. 5 *The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD. 6 *And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before. 7 *And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward. 8 *And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place: 9 *For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest. 10 *So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel. 11 *¶Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father. 12 *And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah. 13 *And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ***. So they saddled him the ***: and he rode thereon, 14 *And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am. 15 *Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. 16 *And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: 17 *For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest. 18 *He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him. 19 *So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water. 20 *And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back: 21 *And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee, 22 *But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. 23 *¶And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ***, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back. 24 *And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the *** stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. 25 *And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt. 26 *And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him. 27 *And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ***. And they saddled him. 28 *And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the *** and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ***. 29 *And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ***, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. 30 *And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother! 31 *And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones: 32 *For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass. 33 *After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places. 34 *And this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth. How could a prophet lie to a man of God ? How could a profet became an occasion to fall and not be punished by God? And the one who falled be destroyed without mercy ? Romains 14:13 *Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. What is it teached in this story?

Personaly, as I had also that fear sometimes, I found comforting to think that certainly, if I should be punished this way, this would mean that I will have deserved it... And if I was one day punished by god , in a way I, can "rejoice" any way because it would be Just. It may look strange, but this helped me trust in the love of the lord and his mercy. Because I know he is a God of Love even much more than no one can be. Do we really think that we are more mercifull than he is ? He hates sin but he love the sinner so much he gave his life. Our fear and incomprehension come from evil, who try to get far from the Lord. I pray for we can always have our heart and mind turn to him so that he can be nourrish by him. Because it is him we must have confidence more than in ourself.

Bert10, Thank you for your answer. You didn't say that Samson commited a suicide... Or that he thought only on revenge... You said that the story of Samson is a marvelous story, You said that it show that one can find redemption. It is true for us : Matthieu 16:25 *For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. As you can see, I believe that this story show also the relation of Christ with human kind. The first woman (philistin) was the Israel church. The second one is a prostitute (see apocalypse) and the last one is the one he loved (even if she betrayed him as judah). Can't you see paralelism between the end of Samson and the last days of the Lord ? You said that the hair represent only dedication of Nazarene, but have a look at these scriptures : Ezéchiel 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. Ezéchiel 5:1 ¶And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair. 2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them. Ezéchiel 44: 20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads. Here, it is not about Nazarene...

Hello Bert10, First of all, I never said that Elisha was wrong to curse the child.. I just said that the Church don't use the same kind of glass (for eyes) to judge Samson and Elisha. You seems to say that today it is still a sin to dishonor one's Elder... I may agree, but would an elder curse a child because he has mocked him ( and not really his preastood but his lack of hair...) ? That today a child curse himself because he is doing what is wrong, I can understand,but that an elder ask God to curse this child is not understandable ! If not, because in those days, it was the symbol that count (as I said previouly : "That counts it is not really the action itself but the symbolic, (some would say the internal) sense, the representation of a spiritual truth")... Would you not pray for these children yourself if you would have been mocked, remembering the word of the Lord in the cross "God forgive them because they don't know what they are doing" ? But my point was not only this one... And I didn't take this example of Elisha casually... The story of Samson and Elisha have both this in common that it is about the hair !! And in the scriptures, there is a lot about the hair : Lévitique 21:10 *¶And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; Numbers 6:5 *All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. 18 *And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings. In the book of Mormon, it is said and this is true that the law of moses was a representation of the things to come and of Christ. So what is it represented by the hair ? And will this not explain why Samson was so strong or why Elisha curse these children (42 died) ? And in the case of samson he had 7 locks of his head. What are these locks representing? I agree so much with you !! But why do you tell this to me who is defending the Samson as also Elisha ? But not to the church.. who is judging Samson ?? How could Samson have done so many powerfull things, if he was not guided by God? You finish showing your love for the church. I respect it. I have no hate against any members... Even the leaders... But I am saying that what it is teached is wrong concerning Samson ! And also concerning much of the bible... And the way or read the scripture... Am I responsable if they criticized Samson they do not understand? And I am just saying without any hate : you are wrong. Why am I saying this to "happy people" as it is said in the BOM ? For the same reason I was a missionnary of this church 20 years ago in Spain and knocked doors (and missionaries still say to those they teach) : Just because what I believe to be true (I wanted it so much...). And because I will not let a innocent (Samson) be dishonored without saying anything. Concerning the persecutions the church did suffer, what I know is the love of the lord for this church, as the love of Samson for the woman he loved and the proof of love he gave to her giving his secret and putting his live in his hand. Giving himself completely because of his love for her.Being tortured. Yes, I can see (understand) that he, the Christ, accepted to go down to Hell (Gaza means "Strong Place") under any one as Samson was under all philisteans. And I do understand that with the power of God the Christ was able to fight and distroy even the all hell as Samson in this temple of Dagon. And after this overwhelming victory, he was brought by his brothern and friends to his father as the lord by the disciples and the angels. So I know Dalila represents the true love of the Lord, his true Church ! God Bless you.

Bert, this is your opinion (and the teachings of the LDS church on Samson), and I respect it, but I don't agree. Why is Samson so criticized and not Elisha who curse Children because they mocked him ? The problem is not missing scripture if they really miss... The problem is how they are readen. I believe that if we read them only in the firt degree, we are like blind people. I believe the lord want the blind to receive his sight (recouvrer la vue) and this means not really of the natural infirmity but the spiritual one. I think we all have to learn how to really read the bible. I personnaly, I will not put my confidance in the teachings of this church any more. Because as the lord said : Matthieu 12:33 *Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. And again, who could believe that this means fruit from a supermarket ? And not what is produced by them ? And the "truths" or teachings are a kind of these fruits... So I don't know if Samson did commit sins (as David did), I don't believe so personaly... But even if he did... This would be of few importance comparing with it is hidden in the story. I would like to point that it is not evident in the bible to know if the lord agree or not what a profet or a personne did. Sometime It can look strange. Take the example of Elisha , or when the guy who wanted to help the arch and died because of this. That counts it is not really the action itself but the "symbolic" (some would say the internal) sense, the representation of a spiritual truth... When David commit his sin the writter was clear :" 2 Samuël 11:27 *And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD. This is not the case with Samson. By the contrary, It is written : 31 *Then his brethren and all the house of his father came down, and took him, and brought him up, and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the buryingplace of Manoah his father. And he judged Israel twenty years. And again this refer to the resurrection of Christ : because He was taken by friend and brothers : John 19:38 *¶And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And also the angels. God Bless you.

Elisha was a prophet of God, in 2KING 21 : *And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the LORD, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land. But just after this He cursed little children because they mocked him (because of his hair....) so 42 of them were killed... 2 KING : 23 *And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 *And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 25 *And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria. How is it possible that a prophet of god who did many miracles could be justify before God when he cursed them just for this? The everlasting gospel is not a love one? The lord did not teach us to forgive ennemy? and in Matthieu 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. ? How to explain this ?

Really ? Recently, my children and I were looking "Superman returns" (film). As they are young (8 and 7 years old), they didn't realize how much Superman was very much a representation of Christ (you may say that I see this symbolisme every where :-p). But, I felt something bad... Speaking of the lord or wanted to teach after his coming is not of the same value than speaking of him before his birth ! Because one is a profecy but the other looks like what we call in french "recupération", a kind of "recovery" (I am not sure the traduction will tell much). It is not because somebody say that there is a Christ that he is right in all that he can say. So this is why the lord by "old scriptures" said it "before" as it is written in Esaie : Esaïe 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 *I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 *To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 *I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 *Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Esaïe 48:1 *Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. 2 *For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name. 3 *I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. 4 *Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass; 5 *I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them. 6 *Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. 7 *They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. Now, I am faithfull that the lord hide his truth for those who look for him. Because if these truth had not been hiden, they would have been distroyed. So they are of much value for me !

Here Paul spoke of men of faith, and Samson is mentionned : Hebrew 11:32 *"And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:" So Paul has a positive vision of Samson also.

Sorry, I do not understand you. I was just trying to explain that you call "old scriptures" ! And I took this scripture in Roman to explain" the anger of Samson ". But more than a anger against the carnal, It was most against hypocrisy : Matthew 23:26-39 where we can see the "anger of the lord against the pharisiens (philistins)". When the Samson (the lord) wanted to have a real union with his wife (the church of Jews), those who should have care of her, have given her to an other . So the Samson, destroy their production (the bad and false). So Philistins killed the wife (the church) !! And even his father house !! So The lord destroyed them and retire from them : 8 *And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam. This is what happened after the death and resurection of Christ, first the Jews killed the christians (see in act the episode of Etienne) and after they were devasted : matthew 23:38 *Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 *For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. This is what it is meant by : "and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." This mean to be hidden from them. Now, I am not sure I am doing well in explaining this. I feel that you do not really wants to read that it is not allowed by the leader in the preasthood. Like Israel in those day, you looks you are not free and under domination. I do not believe anymore that Church leader understand better than I the "old scriptures". It is not pride ! By the contrary, I believe we are all equal before God and that he wants to give liberaly to every one. God do not make differents between his children... But you sumit yourself to some! Putting your salvation in their hands. The salvation is a personal relationship ! As you said yourself (or the church !) but there is a differents between that it is said and what it is done ! Soon I will vote "no" in the stake conferance to the sustain of the leaders ! Because 1 - I will no more sustain people who speak falsely against somebody (even a dead man as Samson) 2 - because I am not affraid 3 - because Samson is a model ! :-p 4 - Because It is the only way to may be deliver some from falsity ! For those who wants to know more this is my email : [email protected] I will give every thing for free ! In the internet, you can find this : It is In french : Promesses - Samson: l'homme de tous les espoirs no. 106 Promesses - Samson: Un mariage stratégique no. 107 Promesses - Samson: Un pays ravagé no. 108 Promesses - Samson: Visites à deux femmes no. 109 Sincerely yours,

Volgodon wrote "In Samson's case the Philistines spent three days trying to solve a riddle. Samson's wife nags him for seven days. That brings the total to ten days." I do not think so : Juges 14:12 *And Samson said unto them, I will now put forth a riddle unto you: if ye can certainly declare it me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty sheets and thirty change of garments: So the feast in totally had 7 days. And the woman was asking Samson during all those days even before the philistine Threat. They tried to find out by themself 3 days.. etc .. I will not believe that this is not a mere coincidence.

Concerning Judges 14: 14-17 14 *And he said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle. 15 *And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they said unto Samson's wife, Entice thy husband, that he may declare unto us the riddle, lest we burn thee and thy father's house with fire: have ye called us to take that we have? is it not so? 16 *And Samson's wife wept before him, and said, Thou dost but hate me, and lovest me not: thou hast put forth a riddle unto the children of my people, and hast not told it me. And he said unto her, Behold, I have not told it my father nor my mother, and shall I tell it thee? 17 *And she wept before him the seven days, while their feast lasted: and it came to pass on the seventh day, that he told her, because she lay sore upon him: and she told the riddle to the children of her people. I just found a scripture making the symbolism more clear even : Number 19:19 19 *And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even. So here it is an evidence of that Samson here represents the one who is pure : The lord Jesus-Christ. But the philistine did not take benefit of him so that they stay in a state of inimity with God (represented by the anger of Samson) Romains 8:7 *Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

As I said, I present a point of view on the Samson’s story. Of course, it is my own interpretation and I will not pretend this is exactly the only and very true one. However, the story has many similarities with the life and the mission of the lord. So numerous in fact and sometimes so “clear” that just confronting them should convince that Samson was a representation of Christ (when I came back from my mission and I study the old testament with the institute in 1993-1994, our teacher and I were convinced). I could have just given them. But I found useful also to give this personal interpretation (and sometime not only personal but from others who also believe that Samson is such a figure) because there is more for me than just these similarities. For example, Samson as Christ (in the parable) was concerned about vineyards and wedding garment… But what those vineyards and garments represent? Here is what Emmanuel Swedenborg calls the “internal sense” and this is the real sense of the scriptures different from the literal. But I am not saying now that I understand it completely or exactly or that I am now depository of that sense! Because I believe It is God who explain it really (by the spirit of truth or the holy Ghost) to those who look diligently for it. And It is given according of our diligence, humility and active faith that is bound with charity. I consider myself as a student. So let’s Go! Judges 13:1 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years. Who are the Philistines? As I have already explain, they are descendant of Cham and they really appeared in Geneses 20 and 21 and then in 26. The Philistines stopped the wells digged by Abraham and also strove concerning the wells of water of Isaac Geneses 26:18-20 . What are the wells of water? The lord answered in John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. So what it is meant by the lord delivered Israel into the hand of the Philistines 40 years? That good people can be submits to those kind of people. I think Parisians where of that kind. They always content with the lord, because they have the power among the people and that the lord did show and expose their lies. So he did represent a danger for them and he did try to deliver his people from them. 40 years is, as always, symbolic of a time of preparation, purification. So this is the first analogy between Christ and Samson, Philistines and those who used the word of God for their own (verse 13:5). Concerning the births, both are announced by an angel : In the case of Samson, it is even one whose name is Marvelous and was consumed : 13:20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. Both are miraculous, but there is remarkable difference also : In Judge it is the mother who is commend : Juges 13:4 “ Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing.” And in Luc 1:15, it John baptist who had to keep this command: “For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb”. And the attitude of Manoah is quite similar with these of Zacharias, both are scared and doubtful compare Luc 1:12 and Judge 13:22. But the mother of Samson was not and she comforted him. So it seems that the mother of Samson represents here John the Baptist. And that she prepares the path for him as John for the Christ. The fact that as John, she had to abstain from strong drink may be so she could testify. Judge 13:24-25:”And the woman bares a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him. And the Spirit of the LORD began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol.” Samson was Nazarite and he should not cut his hair. I will detail more later, but the lord also did give all his life to his father Luc2:49 “wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?”. Luc 2:40 24 Luc 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. Samson also means “Sun” and in John 1: 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men (see also Luc 2:32). Now, Judges 14:1 And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines. Thimna means “assign portion”. So here, it may appear curious that Samson wanted to mary a non Israelite woman. And in the literal sense, his parents were trouble because this was not according the law of Moses. But also, the author guides us saying Judge 14:4 “But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the LORD, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel.” So still, it was not according the Moses law, it still was according the will of God. Samson is criticized for this, but not in justice in my opinion… Because a law can be broken according to an Higher law as Joseph Smith explained. And for example, the lord ask Abraham to kill Isaac and it was in justice ! Or in the case of Aaron Levitique 10:19 And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the LORD; and such things have befallen me: and if I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the LORD? Samson wanted to deliver his nation from Philistine domination but the people looked comfortable with the situation and submit (nobody came to him as in Jephthah story to ask for help). So he had to do it alone and he needed an excuse. So this marriage (covenants ) was a strategic one ! Because, as the philistines were bad, they will inevitably break the covenants so Samson could be justify delivering Israel. Now in the “internal sense”, but when you realize who really the Philistines are, it is easy to understand that she (the first woman) represents the church of the old testament. In fact, she represents the Jewish church… Samson wanted to marry her as the lord… The lord in the word is the husband (Matthew 9:15, Matthew 25:5-10 , John 3:29.. apocalypse 18:23). Now what happened to this first church? It is all in Judges 14 and 15 ! By the way, the missions of Samson and of Christ were not understood by their parents: Judges 14:4 and Luc2:49-51 “49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? 50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them”. It had been said that Jesus was subject unto them and Samson not… But, It is not written that Samson disobey ! By the contrary, Samson’s parents went down to Timnah with him judge14:5. Concerning the lion in vineyards of Timnath : here are 3 scriptures Esaie 5:7 “For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.” Hebreux 11:33 “Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions” 1 Pierre 5:8 “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”. Samson defended cares about the vineyard of Timnah (assigned part) as the lord surely does with his vineyard against the devil. When he came back a second time to marry her, he found honey that he eat and gave to his parents. The honey is a symbol of spiritual food. For example, the promise land is a land flowing with milk and honey and on Exode 16:31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey. From his victory against the lion (devil), he obtains a spiritual food that he shares to his family. But he never told his parent how he had killed a lion with his own hands. Is it not strange for somebody who is describe as arrogant and full of vanity? Now, at the feast, put forth a riddle unto them, and they accepted the game. Samson here is not only a strong man physically but also intellectually and the winner will obtain 30 garments: “Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness”. And it is written: Judge 14:1 4 “And they could not in three days expound the riddle. 15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they said unto Samson's wife, Entice thy husband, that he may declare unto us the riddle, lest we burn thee and thy father's house with fire: have ye called us to take that we have? is it not so?” Usully 3 and 7 are number who represent holiness but here it is clear that they represent the contrary because they are violating their agreement and they are cheating… (As Swedenborg explain, in the word, the words can have opposite meanings) So 3 and 7 here represent their state of perversion. Here some will say that Samson was weak because, he revealed the meaning of the riddle to his wife. So I would like first, to say that if we consider that she represents the old church and that Samson is representing Christ, the words can take an other meaning “Judges 14:17 And she wept before him the seven days, while their feast lasted: and it came to pass on the seventh day, that he told her, because she lay sore upon him: and she told the riddle to the children of her people.” This represent the relation of the Lord with (the old) Israel, she lay sore upon him means that he was preoccupied, he worried about her and care. Also, It is very interesting to notice some other point because there is so much ! The vineyards and the garment are the subject of 2 parables that the lord told to the Parisians (as Samson to the philistines as I have already explained) Matthew 21:33-46 and Matthew 22:1-14 where Jesus was speaking to them. Also it may seem that the philistines gave the right answer but really ? The riddle had a symbolic meaning also ! “Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness”: From the very bad (even from the Devil), God can make Good ! If the Philistine had been in more peaceful mind, they could have understood this riddle as a proposition of peace. Juges 14:19 And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house. As they had cheated, Samson gives them what they expected but it was not a reward but a curse. Also with the Lord, as Israel was hard, the lord gives them a representative law. See for example Esaïe 48. The dress could have been the symbol of purity, but in this case of their state in sin. It is said after Juges 14:20, “20 But Samson's wife was given to his companion, whom he had used as his friend”. Who is this companion, whom he had used as his friend (some traduction say whom he was bound) ? Of course is the Devil, not because they are really friends in the literal sense but because, as there is God, there is also Bad, for one will not exist without the other (see 2Nephi11). And the church of those days commits adultery with others Gods. Jérémie 3:9 “ And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks”. Ezéchiel “16:32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! 33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom. 34 And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary”. Concerning the anger of Samson (that is criticized), it is often speak of the anger of the lord in the scriptures in the same terms for example: Exode 4:14” And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart”. Exode 11:8 “And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger”. Exode 15:7 “And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble”. Exode 22:24 “And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless”. In reality, God never act by anger or by revenge. He always acts by love, because he is true love. But for the bad, it’s look like it is anger, because they perceived this love as anger because they are full of hate. As it is explain in Proverbes 25:21 “If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee”. The “anger of the lord” is compared with fire because in reality it is his love! But this love shall devour them (because they can’t accept it). To be continued

Hello, I felt bad after the exchange with volgadon. I should not have answer so quickly. As I said before my motive are not to destroy the good in any one (even in the LDS church) but just the wrong. I Had (and I have) a lot to say about Samson, and I miss an opportunity of keep quiet and took the necessary time to complete my answer. It may look very arrogant to speak as I am doing, saying that the church teaching are not right. But I am not the first and alone to believe that on Samson. It is easy to find out in the web. Just seach for Samson and Christ and you will have a lot of answer. I will however give my thoughts of it, but there is so many that it demands time !!!! The story of Samson teachs us a lot on how the old profets let their teachings. And trying to read them only in the litteral is missing the complete message ! It is, now, very difficult for me to "accept" that it is not so evident for others ! That is why may be I have been to hard with volgadon even if they are wrong ! So, I promise to give my entire conclusion on Samson soon. Now you know I am not perfect and this, I am sure, you will agree !! yours,

My last reply was written during you post yours (precedent), so I didn't have knowledge of your answer (that was not an answer). You tried to to destabilize my position on several points on which I answered you, but you fell offended when I show your do not stand. Your position on the indignity of Him is untenable(city=doctrine, a city kept by blind and lame men are so): from the autor, from Paul, from simple evidences. So you don't know what represent 7 ? So I won't tell you neither. Neither the 7 blocks. Because you do not really ask. Would you believe me if? No you won't . Your only purpose was to demonstrate I am wrong. Samson is a representation of Christ. I can explain more about it to every one who wants.

Very interesting! Let me reformulaze to be sure I understand well ! So Samson did commit adultary wife this woman and with the prostitue but this didn't make him lose his strengh that came from God ... But he told his secret to this dalila and that was a fault ? So young man of the church, God change not !! Let it be know that one man can commit adulterary and not be left alone from God ! But Take attention ! Never give yourself to the woman you love ! Never put your life in her hands because of love ! Because this is a fault ! Marvelous teaching ! Very beautifull teaching !

Come on!! the Bible has been wrotten by profets ! Every missionnary knows that ! Why a profet would emphasis 7 locks if it had no importance ? At list, tell us what 7 means ! You are in Israel! You know Hebrew ! You have the Holy gost given by the autority of the priestood ! I had answer all your question, you surely can answer a single one !

I am sure you can make a effort.. his strengh was in them !

As men, and women represent the truth and good (or false and bad), a city represent a doctrine. So in 2 Samuël 5:8 *And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind, that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain. Wherefore they said, The blind and the lame shall not come into the house. That meant that the Jerusalem as a Doctrine was defended by blind and lame argument. men who fight represent this argument also for exemple when Gedeon fight against madianite: Juges 7:20 *And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 21 *And they stood every man in his place round about the camp: and all the host ran, and cried, and fled. 22 *And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host: and the host fled to Bethshittah in Zererath, and to the border of Abelmeholah, unto Tabbath. As every where in the word, every nation represents something different : Philistine represent those who wants to apropriate the well (spiritual sources) to their benefits (see Genese 20,21 and 26) And in Juges, did you notice that a judge is confront to a differant nation ? I will write a message every day if God consent. Trying as if I was a servant of the Lord to digg a well and find watter : Genèse 26:32 *And it came to pass the same day, that Isaac's servants came, and told him concerning the well which they had digged, and said unto him, We have found water.

Volgadon : May be you can explain to us why he had seven locks ? Juges 16:19 *And she made him sleep upon her knees; and she called for a man, and she caused him to shave off the seven locks of his head; and she began to afflict him, and his strength went from him.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Juges 16:9 *Now there were men lying in wait, abiding with her in the chamber. And she said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he brake the withs, as a thread of tow is broken when it toucheth the fire. So his strength was not known. well in french it is not exactly the same traduction : it means : that the ennemy were waiting in her house in a room... I don't know how men (numerous ? ) could be waiting in the same room as Samson without he knew !! Listen, I don't know if I will continue arguing with you.. You want to see Samson as a weak man.. ok. Paul said of him : Hebreux 11:32 *¶And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets. Who am I to defend Samson ?

Juges 16:8 *Then the lords of the Philistines brought up to her seven green withs which had not been dried, and she bound him with them. 9 *Now there were men lying in wait, abiding with her in the chamber. And she said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he brake the withs, as a thread of tow is broken when it toucheth the fire. So his strength was not known. 12 *Delilah therefore took new ropes, and bound him therewith, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And there were liers in wait abiding in the chamber. And he brake them from off his arms like a thread. Juges 16:19 *And she made him sleep upon her knees; and she called for a man, and she caused him to shave off the seven locks of his head; and she began to afflict him, and his strength went from him.

where do you read that ??

This is your own point of view. First I don't want to argue. And I don't know every thing. But It may have a sense (may be the temptation... don't know yet)Remember that it is said in the book of mormon about a symbol of Christ. I am agree with that. That doesn't answer my question. Why should I accept your explanations as being the spiritual sense? Well as I explained You don't have to, and may be mine its is not the good one ! But I still prefer mine because the scripture have an interest, and in your case to have faith in the goodness of our heavenly father, but in yours... I don't see... not yet... 2 Samuël 5:8 *And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind, that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain. Wherefore they said, The blind and the lame shall not come into the house. Well it can be can be many way of explain it : But again I am not saying I know every thing ! I just try to explain my believe that there is a symbolic meaning ! And that we can try to find it out ! Because the Lord is willing that ! Well I can give my opinion now (but it is not a definitive one) ok? Because I believe we can grow in knoledge little by little. Well David is trying to take possession of the country (we , our land), but there is people who's hart and minds are so hard that they will stay his ennemy. This scripture spake of them. However, for other, who where blind and lame but can be cure ! So in the scripture of Jeremy. I Hope every one will be in that kind than in the other. Can we make peace?

You know the scripture about the charity I am sure : 1 Corinthiens 13:5 *Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; As it is not written anywhere that Samson did comit adultary, I will consider him as inocent ! And even I will defend his integrity ! Aren't you judging without proof? If his ennemy were hidden in the room every time? Did this not show that they feel well hidden there?

In the litteral : knowing somebody is to meat. Here you catch the simbolic one firstly... Sorry :-p of course, I do believe in having a intimate relationship with God !