Pahoran

So "instructions" = "revelations"?

Srm, You are twisting "From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord" and "He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. " into "From this time forth, Josept continued to receive revelations about the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. " Nowhere does it indicate that this is the case.

Peace is also posting under an assumed name. She should be banned.

You are being pigheaded and putting out your opinions as facts and then whining when somebody dares point out that your opinions are not based in reality. Grow up and join the real world. If you cared to show that you had even a shred of credibility, you'd stick to the argument and not refute it with "Joseph Smith said so, and that makes it true". Do you even know how stupid you sound?

Yeah, I am dying to hear that theory. What "rights" are you talking about. Where did they get those rights? That's right. Mormons are not humanists. I forgot. Please forgive my ignorance.

And there's another brilliant argument (note: sarcasm alert). Geeze Paharon, whoever you really are, instead of spending money on a computer and internet access, you could have fed a family of 4 in the Sudan for 3 years; instead of buying a leather belt, you could have used twine and spent the difference buying bus fare to spend a runaway back to Iowa... I spent that money supporting Christian terrorism. Doesn't that count?

As opposed to equal rights advocates? Yes.

Yes, and now they put out millions of dollars that could be going to feed the homeless people in Canada into opposing alternative marriage styles in an effort to appear mainstream Christians. Go figure.

Excuse me? What exactly is it that you are considering to be offensive? The fact that Moroni told Joseph things that just aren't so? Or what?Can somebody that isn't Peace please explain where Cal or I have stepped out of bounds on this thread by merely discussing facts?

LOL! Everything that he got wrong. Should we compile a list?

That sounds correct. Moroni lied to Joseph about who the Native Americans are, as evidenced by DNA testing. Moroni was obviously sent by Lucifer to lead Joseph astray, which he did quite sucessfully. Please continue....

Absolutely! What if Lucy Mack's father declared Joseph Smith to be a fraud? Would that be true too?

That was an awesome refutation! Great job! Way to go! Woohoo!

This is what we call "humor". Ha ha ha.

Why should Richard Abanes or his readers assume that Joseph actually received a revelation on the subject? Abanes is presenting his view, i.e. Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet and was therefore making up stories. How does that make Richard Abanes a liar? Could you cite dates for me then? A. Does that make it true? B. If you don't know the specifics of these visions or of the stories that he would tell, then how can you conclude that the stories were not fabrications? C. You said revelation before. Are you now claiming "vision"? Please clarify.

That sounds like his mother's opinion. If she is of the opinion that Joseph received revelations concerning the stories that he would tell, does that make it true?

No, it sound like he received revelations regarding the Book of Mormon people. Before he received the plates. but it is clear that from our history that he continued to receive instuctions about the people and the work he would be doing. I'm not seeing it. Please elaborate.

I don't see anything there that would indicate that the information was given via revelation. You're just making that up. Stop it.

It sounds to me as if Joseph Smith was making up his Book of Mormon years before he began to actually dictate it. Isn't that what it sounds like to you, srm?

No, he said it was before Joseph found the gold plates. You are mistaken pahoran. Here is the quote from Cal from feb 16th Okay, you got him on that one. Can you cite the revelation that Joseph received in which: "He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them." ? Or are you calling Richard Abanes a liar for not assuming that such a revelation was actually given?

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control. (You just imagined the penguins. Anyway, penguins are unnatural: they're birds, they fly underwater. Nuff said.) 2. Heterosexual marriages are valid becasue they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children. 3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children. 4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful. 5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal. 6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities. 7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire counrty. That's why we have only one religion in America. 8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall. 9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. 10. Children can never suceed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children. 11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer lifespans. 12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will.

No, he said it was before Joseph found the gold plates.

Can you prove that it didn't happen?

Only the opinions of current prophets are important to us. From "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" by ELDER Ezra Taft Benson February 26, 1980: Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works. Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet. Wait a minute, do these fundamentals not apply anymore since the prophet that made them up isn't alive anymore? I'm so confused. edited by Peace 2/24/04

Isn't Peace the one that believes that people live on the moon?M-O-O-N. That spells quakers that live on the moon.