Maygraceabound

You are asking good questions. Lets take them one by one. Who performs the baptism into the body? When you first believe, your are baptized into the body by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. What about Noah's sin? Jesus died for the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our only, but also for those of the whole world. What about those who never herd of Jesus, how can they be saved? The best example is that of Abraham. Abraham did not know of Jesus and yet Abraham believed (faith) God and it was reckoned to Him as righteousness. Just as when you are born again. Jesus's righteousness is reckoned to your account. What about an aborigine? God has given everyone a revelation of the truth. If this person excepts to believe it then he to can be saved. Remember God looks at your heart. Thank goodness He is the judge and not you or I. Rom. 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. So belief not faith activates grace? Grace is a free gift from God for which you did not earn or deserve. Remember the prodigal son. He did not deserve the grace from his father. It is like that. The greek word for belief(pisteuo) and grace are the same here. You can interchange them. If I profess belief...do I get to heaven? If it is true belief, then yes. God knows your heart. What if I am not sure of my belief later? If you truly believed, you are saved. God will never leave you or forsake you. Is there a way to lose your salvation? Yes, See Hebrews 6:4-6. To lose your salvation you need to be born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Spirit etc. It is you who have to walk away from God. Once this has happened there is no going back. You can not be born again again. That would be putting Christ back on the cross. How many slip ups would it take for the Lord not to save you? Jesus payed for the sin of the whole world and that means all sin. I again repeat, God grace is not a ticket to go sin. May it never be. The book of Jude tackles that subject. I hope this helps.

First about the baptism. There are three baptisms. Baptism into the body (born again, you know, when you first believe), baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism. Baptism into the body is the most important. Your spirit comes alive to God, hence, born again. You have now entered into His rest. When Jesus died on the cross all your sins (past present and future) were forgiven. Grace is activated by faith. You are saved by grace through faith. About willful transgressions (are there any other kind?) they have been paid in full by Jesus. And no, it is not a ticket to ride. When you are born again the sanctification process starts, you will find that those sins of your past no longer bring you fleshly joy today. Slowly, you sin less and less. You are a new creature. Also remember there are worldly consequences to sin. Father has forgiven you, but the courts will put you in jail. Feelling remorse for sin is normal. That is your spirit talking to you telling you not to do it anymore. Guaranteed admission into heaven? Not really. It is Gods will for all to go to heaven, however, He gave us free will. Most people will not choose to believe in Jesus. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whomever believes on Him will not perish, but have eternal life. Believers receive eternal life. Non believers perish.

Religion without relationship is spiritual death.

I belong to no religion. I belong to Jesus. I made Him my lord. The greek word for repent means to change your thinking. Look it up. When John said to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. John was telling us that something new was coming and we would need to change our thinking about it. Jesus came and with Him a new and better covenant. We were no longer under the curse of the law as Paul would say. The new covenant is grace. Jesus became the curse for all of us and paid the penalty in full for the whole world with His blood. It is this work that the believers rest in today, the sabbath, Jesus. So when you see the word repent it is telling you to think differently. This word has been hijacked by religions for centuries. Please don't get me wrong, it is OK to be sorry for your sins and to thank God for His forgiveness. Notice I did not say ask God to forgive. Why? Because He already has. Your sin He remembers no more. As far as the East is from the West. We have an awesome God.

So the picture of the prodigal is that the son who did wrong (no work) was redeemed to an equal position as the son who was dutiful. Both sons received by the grace of their father. Our worldly expectation is that the "good" son would receive more. God is much bigger than that. The last shall be first and the first shall be last. We are all equal in Fathers eye. The wayward son is not lower than the good son. They are equal. We have a great God. Thank You Jesus. So, this is the rest we enter into when we are first born again. This rest is the sabbath and His name is Jesus. He is the Lord of the sabbath. Confidence in this allows us to boldly enter the throne room of God. So, take a deep breath and rest in His work.

There seems to be a misconception that entering His rest means that there is no work for us. That is not the case. There is much work to be done. The rest is knowing that as far as salvation in concerned, He has done the work and by grace through faith that work is reckoned to our account. In James it said that faith without works is dead. This is true. Question, what is the difference between dead works and good works? Hint: Do you do to be or be to do? Also, meditate on the parable of the prodigal son. Did the returning son have to work for His restoration? Why was the other son (who was working hard) upset? Is this a picture of how our Father in heaven is?

Something like that.

Heb 4:1-11 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. I am sure you are familiar with Jesus being the "Lord of the sabbath" and above we see scripture about entering His rest. Jesus is the sabbath. He gives us rest. Jesus said Mat. 11:28-30 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and I will give you rest . 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Are you heavy laden or are you resting in Jesus?

Vort, don't mix words, tell me what you really think

Could it be possible that the sabbath day of the old testament was to remind us what we lost in the garden and a foreshadow of what we would regain with Jesus? Now that we live under a "better covenant" could it also be that the sabbath day is no longer a day but a person and that person being Jesus? So, could you say that for the believer, Jesus is the lord of the sabbath and we now rest in Him 24/7/365? Just thought I would throw that out there. PS I would not sweat the traveling.

I am glad to hear this. So to answer your question "what do Christians believe", I would go with what you just posted. Sounds very good to me. Lofty debates and theology mean nothing if you take your focus off Him. It is not Jesus and. It is Jesus only. God Bless You PC.

My wife and I go to a church of about 200. ( however church attendance is not required to be Christian )If you ask any of our members they would say that they are not religious. They would eve get offended with the notion. Jesus never wanted us to be religious. Religion takes the focus off Jesus and puts it on mans traditions and dead works. Mat:23-4 (paraphrase) religion ties up men with many burdens that they can not bare. PC. It has never been about religion, it is about relationship. Jesus wants you in your heart not tied up in dead works and traditions. He wants compassion not sacrifice. To follow Him you must pick up your cross daily. What does He mean by this? Your answer lies here. So, religion will never define you as Christian. Your heart does. It is my observance most people in a religion today believe that if that are a good person and go to church then they are Christian. They may not be. Without Jesus, they are lost. However, all religions have some members that are Christian. They truely have a relationship with Jesus. Mormon, Catholic, Budist, Muslim etc all have some members who believe on Him. So they would be Christian. PC Where is your heart?

Being prepared is smart. Having a supply of food, water, medical and even a firearm is just good practice.

You are Christian the moment you first believe. Mormons, Catholic, Baptist or no religion; it does not matter. All can be Christian. God is interested in your heart. I would add that most people who go to church are probably not Christian. Just my observation. It is not about the religion, it is about believing in Jesus.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me." The above quote from God can not be true if both Jesus and Father are both separate gods. I do not expect you to respect my words. That is why I quote Gods word. His word is truth Isaiah 9:6 says that Jesus is from everlasting and mighty God. From what I understand about LDS theology Jesus is an offspring from Father, therefore, Jesus can not be from everlasting. To view the three as separate we would have to disregard too many passages of scripture. Bringing the three together as one fits all scripture. It explains singularity and plurality in the scriptures. All biblical scripture is true and without error. No word conflicts with another. From this perspective, all three must be one God, as this is the only logical conclusion. I do respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. Peace

I am trying to understand you view. To me, it still does not make sense. He says you shall have no other gods before me. Who is me? Is it Father or Jesus?

In Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. The Son is called mighty God and everlasting Father. John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God......... and the Word became flesh. As established above the great "I AM" is both Jesus and Father. The Son is called "mighty God" and "everlasting Father". The Word = God and the Word = flesh (Jesus). Could it be that just as you are three parts, body, soul and spirit and that you were made in God's image which seems to also be three parts, Father, Soul and Spirit?

Above Vort said said that Jesus is the "I AM" In Ex 3:14 ...And God (Elohim, who you call Father) said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. So are Jesus and Father both "I AM"?

Then Jehovah is not the Father?

This is a good post. Question, was Jesus Moses's god during this time?

Out of the three above, which one is the great "I AM"

I quoted Jesus.

Thank You

Would you agree to discuss this with me on a new thread? Civil like.

I quoted Jesus.