anim82r

peteolcot, I hope this helps. you will see here that some of the apostles, including and especially peter, who happened to be the president of the church at that time had to be reprimanded by paul, who was an apostle but probably not a member of the 12, due to some wrong teachings and actions they've displayed towards jewish members and gentile members. here is a classic evidence that members and leaders of the church are fallible. the idea that a leader of the church should be infallible is in the realms of self righteousness. 1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be fustified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. galatians 2:1-21

Hmm... you know. That thread I posted was majorly based on the whole body of the story. That was just the head. Since I cannot write all in here the content (as I do not have the material here so I can't put it all in as verbatim as I could) I thought of just shortening it by relating my own experience. But the general idea of that wonderful general authority's message in that talk of his is the essential role friendship plays in our family relationship. I only focused on the marriage part because this area is about marriage. I love my brothers and sister too. We even extend help to distant relatives without ever waiting for something in return. I think I do understand Charity by as much as you do sister. One of the things foreigners admire about Filipinos is our close family ties, one of which I'm proud of as a Filipino. And it would be better with friendship in it as the good Elder wants to put it. On the other hand I admire your great love for your husband and family. I will not attempt to incline myself into telling you anything else to better your relationship. It is already good. Probably one of the best! But what you presented here is in total disarray with what I was trying to convey. In a way it wasn't my story you are trying to discredit, but that of a wise Church leader. I hope everyone here will understand that it is not my intention to argue or push my personal beliefs and say mine is better than yours. I just want to follow Elder M. Russel Ballard's counsel--Use the internet to preach the Gospel. The thread I posted was a message from a respected leader, only paraphrased. Maybe much lesser in degree than how he delivered it. So sorry I can't remember who it was. But his message was too impressive for me to ignore it so I thought I should post it from memory. Peace Anatess. I would love to be your friend.:)

It wasn't my plan to include that kind of "secrets" when I said many friends don't keep secrets from each other. I was not going there. And I used "many" to mean not all. I believe you're not one of the "many" who tell "every aspects" of their lives to friends, of which I commend you. But there are those who do. One of the things that hurt spouses big time. The moral of the thread I posted is that friendship can really play an important role in keeping a happy married life and family.:)

exactly!:)

Well thanks! that's a good observation you presented there! It does quite sound a little not too substantive. Almost like a dream, ain't it? but hey, it's a perspective that works hehe! And I suspect that I'm not the only one enjoying this perspective. And it's my prayer that it become a solid substance for everyone else to enjoy.:)

We can only pray they did the right thing.:)

There was a story told by one of our general authorities from his personal experience. I’m sorry I can’t remember who it was who told it. And also I’m sorry that I might not tell it accurately, but the story goes somewhat like this: As this Elder (the story teller) was about to go to a Church meeting he saw two boys on bikes racing against each other. They were newsboys and they were out to deliver the papers for that day. One of them was of course ahead of the other. As the boy upfront passed by our goodly Elder something happened which caused him to fall off his bike, tumbled and was downed to the pavement, papers flying all over. The Elder hastily ran to him to help and check how the boy was. He got himself up and quickly picked up the scattered newspapers. While both of them were picking up the papers the second boy speedily passed by boisterously laughing at the other one. The Elder, shaking his head, remarked, “Your friend doesn’t quite treat you well now, does he?” To which the fallen boy replied, “He’s not my friend. He’s my brother!” Can someone be our blood relative but not our friend? Seems to me that more often than not, this is quite the case. I have to admit my siblings aren’t my friends either. I don’t think there is any of my relative who is also a friend. Of course we do love our kin but they were not always our friends. What’s worse, we so often see lovers, such as engaged couples and married ones who loved each other so dearly but are not friends. Some songs actually go with lyrics like, “I don’t want to be your friend. I want to be your lover!” Spencer W. Kimball taught that genuine love doesn’t come overnight. It grows through time. He stressed that it should build up within the bounds of friendship. No wonder he sweetly advises Latter-Day Saints, “Marry your best friend.” I think this is what’s lacking in many marriages. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think many friends don’t keep secrets from each other but do keep a few from their spouses! A leader in the Church wisely taught, “If your spouse is your friend, your best friend. Quarrels and fights will be lesser. There will be only laughter and joking around all the time.” Maybe less jokes and less laughter but less fights too, because you are best of friends. And let me add from my personal married experience, whenever my wife and I would fall into heated arguments, we converse with each other as friends. The things that we can’t resolve as married couple we resolve as friends. As best friends! I think I can safely say that whenever couples got into fight they ran to their friends for comforting. Whereas if your spouse is your friend and you’ve gotten into an argument, you run to each other for comforting because you are friends. My wife and I would always find ourselves playing like kids immediately after an argument. Because after a little silent treatment one of us would start throwing a pillow or two. Then, a smile. Then a revenge—throw a larger, heavier pillow! Then the riot begins! It’s all that. Then we can start talking about what we’ve argued about, this time more peaceful and a lot of giving in. Nothing beats friendship. If your spouse is only your lover, chances are you’ll end up unhappy. Now we have extended this friendship with our kids. We are very happy they open up to us and tell us their deepest secrets as if they’re just talking to their peers, giggles including! Try building up that friendship in your marriage. I believe that our closest relationship with the Lord was when He offered His friendship: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you (John 15:13, 14). In my opinion friendship is by far the strongest relationship in the world! It has the power to save marriages!

I did! All went well, Our Mission President said, you can go "window shopping but do not touch the merchandise!" I think he meant to say it's natural to sometimes look at the person of the opposite sex. Just don't say anything that would lead to romantic relationship while on the mission. Also, I think it means it's natural to look at the person of the opposite sex. just don't go looking for someone to marry, instead, focus on your mission. Yes I'm aware of Spencer W. Kimball's "Lock your Heart" when I was on a mission. He also said there that if a missionary has a boyfriend or girlfriend back home they should lock them in. that if they returned to their area after their mission for a boy or a girl they have short-lived their mission. While serving as a Bishop in our ward I asked this question to the general authority who interviewed me. He said that maybe the reason why President Kimball said that was because during his time many missionaries inclined themselves to finding someone to marry instead of focusing on their work. I personally believe that the content in President Kimball's talk of Lock your heart in the mission wasn't necessarily a rule. After all, there should not be any Temple Marriage served to those who met each other while the one of them was serving a mission. I think it's safe to say that some are exempted to the rule. For instance, I had a co-missionary who had a batch mate in the MTC who was only 18 years old. And it's a Sister! Yes, an 18-year-old full time missionary Sister. Can't believe it myself. Maybe she was just too darn obedient to be called to serve. She didn't apply to serve. She was called. I served my mission when I was 26 years old. I was the oldest Elder in our mission. Well, it wasn't so much of an exception because I turned in my application at 25. I got my call at 26. hehe! Anyway, my point is, marriage is also a calling. The President who wrote the "Lock Your Heart" was the same president who advised, "When you pray about marriage, pray that you do not marry the one you love but that you learn to love the one you marry." That's exactly what I did. I prayed and asked the Lord to lead me to the right person that I should marry. And it wasn't my then current girlfriend who also happened to be a returned missionary. Instead, my prayers lead me to return to my 4th area (I had 7), a small town where most things are simple. I was lead to this unassuming little fine Sister of the Church. To make a long story short We both fasted and prayed about it. I fasted 5 times in straight 5 Sundays. She fasted 4 times in 4 straight Sundays! We both received answers to each of our fasts. I/she was the one! We both received a scripture passage in our dreams on our last fasting, which was a warning to both of us. I got mine from the Old Testament. She got hers from the Book of Mormon. Both were given by an angel in our dreams. Amazingly the scripture passages have one message, and it goes like this: If you do not obey my commandment I'll curse you down to your 4th generation! I guess the Lord got very weary of our repeated asking, lol! So there we go. Married each other in the Philippines Manila Temple! It was the most spiritual experience I ever had. Still unsurpassed up to now! I got married as an answer to a call: to raise a family and pull down a portion of the Celestial Kingdom to our Home. several weeks after that I was called as Bishop. Then served as Branch President in my wife's hometown, then served as District Clerk, Family History Director, Elders Quorum 2nd councilor, Institute Teacher. So I don't think that with those callings after my marriage I sinned for finding my spouse within the bounds of my mission, did I? I think a missionary who married someone from his mission is not at sin so long as he focused on his work--To be The Lord's Errand and Representative. I am proud to say I served my mission well and returned home with honor.

:lol:

You're right about the nature of the internet. I tell the same thing to other people who may have misinterpreted something from others. I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm hurting for the Savior that I'll defend Him at the best I could. I now believe it wasn't your intention to disrespect Him. It's just that I got tired of all the arguments and contentions roaming around this site and I'm surprised to find out most of them are LDS, that I thought you are just one of them, but maybe you're not. I did not realize such culture do exist in the Church that when I found it out I became a little more ferocious in defending the Principles of the Gospel and the doctrines incorporated with it because we rarely have such among LDS here in the Philippines. We reason with each other kindly and nicely. I discovered it was harder to defend the Gospel from LDS themselves who hold strong personal philosophies and interpretation of the doctrine. I have so much respect for our American fellow LDS because of their superior performance as missionaries here in our country. That's why it hurt me a great deal to find so much of American LDS in this site who do not hold the same nature as these missionaries have. It was a frustration for me that I did not visit this site for a very long time. And when I do I rarely do so just like now. Dravin's great. I commend him for explaining everything well. Somehow it appeased my frustration of encountering same Pseudo-LDS over and over again here in this site. And you're right again, i must have thick skin at all times. Thanks to both of you guys.:)

LDS Here! And Have gotten really deep!

well said! Well said. I fully agree During my time as a Bishop I've seen some of my fellow leaders in the stake make the mistake of extending a calling out of desperation. And the extended calling never worked out. Yes I know how important revelation is. I cannot remember any calling I've extended that has not been confirmed of the Lord. In our Bishopric we list down the names of people who we think are able for a certain calling. We discuss about each one in the list about their capabilities, testimonies and circumstances (studying it out in our minds D&C 9:8). Then the 3 of us kneel down in prayer to ask God who in the list the Lord desires to call. Then we go home. In our respective homes we again kneel down in mighty supplication to reveal to us His will and tell us who in the list is the rightful one. When we meet again the next Sunday we again kneel down in prayer for the last time to ask God who in the list should we extend the call. The whole praying is asking God if it be right (D&C 9:9) Then, miracle occurs--All the three of us point to just one name in the list. Most of the time we are surprised after the Lord has revealed His will. But we have to extend it because He said so. We cannot deny it. So callings is not something leaders should just effortlessly extend to members for convenience. It should be the will of the Lord that has decided it.

Agree! I never had all the qualities nor the capacities of a Bishop but I was called in that position. When I was called I realized I had to experience what I preach in Institute Class and Sunday Schools--A Church calling is not a lofty position, It's a School. The good thing about this school is that you are the only student and you get to have many different teachers. That you are placed in a Church calling not because you know what to do but because you will be taught what to do. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 1 Corinthians 1:25-29

I think you're contradicting yourself here. And how did you know they'd be comfortable doing things they ought not to in front of the Savior? And why do you have to include sexual relations with a spouse to not doing it in front of the Savior? Sheesh! I can't believe I even have to type that here just so you can know it is disrespect to Christ for you saying that. Did you say that to prove your point? Disregarding a little respect for the sake of argument? C'mon! you're better than that!

I don't know friend. In my experience during my mission i never found it easy to reason with people who have the same philosophy as you do. Actually I'm not confused although that may have been what the icon has projected. I'm worried. Especially every time I read and read posts of people, LDS or not, expressing all sorts of excuses to justify their actions or beliefs when confronted by Church standards. Hey, to me you are still a child of God no matter what. Don't bother clarifying. I think you will only try to defend your stand.

The Savior once advised, Let your yea yea and nay nay. Your husband must learn how to say no if he doesn't want to do what is requested of him. Or not necessarily that he doesn't want the thing that is requested of him rather, that when he doesn't have the time, the means, or the strength to do it. With regards to extending a call. I was once a Bishop and a Branch President myself. In the Priesthood Training Video leaders are instructed to first interview the person to whom the call is being extended but not extending the call yet. If the person in that interview is found worthy and able to perform for a calling the next move will be for the bishop or branch president to invite the spouse of the person. Then the Bishop or Branch President will tell them what the interview was all about. Then the calling will be announced to both the person interviewed and the spouse. Then the two of them had to agree or disagree after the calling has been announced. They may even discuss in that room about the calling and their circumstances with the Bishop or Branch President and decide whether or not to accept it. I think it will be perfectly fine with your Bishop if you tell him about this procedure just in case he doesn't know that that's how he's supposed to extend a calling. Same is true with youth and single adults who are still dependents when a calling is being extended to them. After an interview with them their parents or legal guardians must be invited in the office before the calling is given, then that's the time the calling is announced to both the person interviewed and their parents. About accepting a calling. Elder Thomas S. Monson said, " Never aspire for a Church Position. When you are called never say no. When the going gets tough never resign." If you think your husband is worthy for a calling, then there is no reason for him to say no. I promise you that things will work out in favor of your welfare if he accepts the calling extended to him. I don't think that the scripture pertaining to running more than your have strength did not mean not accepting a calling when we are laid with heavy temporal loads. I know blessings will come in ways we don't expect and in ways we don't even know to be there but is already there. Believe me sister, the only thing that should stop anyone from accepting a calling is their unworhtiness.

This is in answer to TomLogan's and Daniel2020's. "Olive trees are special in the Holy Land. The olive branch is universally regarded as a symbol of peace. This tree provides food, light, heat, lumber, ointments, and medicine. It is now, as it was then, crucial to life in Israel. It is not a deciduous tree, but ever bearing—always green. Even if the tree is chopped down, life will spring from its roots, suggesting everlasting life. Jesus came to the base of the Mount of Olives to effect the first component of the Atonement. This He did at the Garden of Gethsemane. The word Gethsemane comes from two Hebrew roots: gath, meaning “press,” and shemen, meaning “oil,” especially that of the olive. There olives had been pressed under the weight of great stone wheels to squeeze precious oil from them. So the Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane was literally pressed under the weight of the sins of the world. He sweat great drops of blood—his life’s “oil”—which issued from every pore. (See Luke 22:44; D&C 19:18.) Jesus was accorded titles of unique significance. One was the Messiah, which in Hebrew means “anointed.” The other was the Christ, which in the Greek language means “anointed” as well. In our day, as it was in His day, the ordinance of administration to the sick includes anointing with the consecrated oil of the olive. So the next time you witness consecrated oil being anointed on the head of one to be blessed, and these sacred words are said, “I anoint you with this consecrated oil,” remember what that original consecration cost. Remember what it meant to all who had ever lived and who ever would yet live. Remember the redemptive power of healing, soothing, and ministering to those in need. Remember, just as the body of the olive, which was pressed for the oil that gave light, so the Savior was pressed. From every pore oozed the life blood of our Redeemer. And when sore trials come upon you, remember Gethsemane." In This Holy Land Elder Russel M. Nelson Liahona February 1991

Does it mean that if something is just a counsel we can just ignore it and not be accountable? Doctrine and Covenants section 1:37-39 "...Whether by my own voice or by the voice of my servants it is the same" So when a prophet or inspired leaders counsels us to do something or, counsels us against something we ought to take heed and not make excuses. It is God speaking through their mouth! I'm sure one would follow the counsel right away if it was God who have directly spoken it. The covenant of baptism includes heeding the counsels of leaders, even if it challenges your health or your life! Where would the spirit of a man go if he dies because of heeding what is counseled of him?

A little confusing Tom. Would you please elaborate. Thanks!:)

I don't know how close this answer would be brother, but several years ago there was this story in Liahona about an inactive father who had a child in a hospital in critical condition. He's been inactive for many years and has done quite a lot of things a LDS isn't supposed to do. He's a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. He had a hard time deciding whether to bless the child or not for he knew he had sinned a great deal against God. He wasn't sure if the blessing would have any effect at all. Eventually he did bless the child. The writer's point here is that the man was a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. In his sinful state he used it to bless his child, and it was well for the writer. It's included in that Liahona Issue. So I think it's okay. During Sacrament meeting, we may still partake of the Sacramental bread and water no matter the spiritual condition of the person who blessed it. It is him who will be accounted for for blessing the Sacrament knowing he is unworthy, not the worthy partakers, including you who knew about it. Some priesthood who were unworthy did bless the Sacrament simply because they didn't know they were not supposed to bless the Sacrament when they're unworthy. It does happen here in country. But the Bishop or the Branch President, after learning about it, would do everything they could to never let such things happen again. I think we just have to trust our leaders and see the Wisdom of God in action.

Hmmm... I thanked Connie for her post. But your post also makes sense. Thanks!

Any good came from what? from Joseph's experience of Satan's manifestation or of God's? Anyway, if you're referring to Joseph's experience with Satan no good will ever come from it. It's Satan's manifestation right? What good will ever come from it?:)

I've seen quite a few threads about Cola drinks, and the differing opinions about it by posters. I know the discussion about it is already closed but I'm quite not satisfied with the answers. So i just thought I should give a little info about the subject: Check out ENSIGN December 2008 issue pgs. 47 - 52, and Doctrine and covenants Institute manual pg. 209 (D&C 89:9). I believe these two should do it and fix LDS' stand on cola drinks and other beverages with addictive substance once and for all.

Thanks! I'll try my best. I guess that's a problem when one is not using his native language. Maybe i just can't construct my ideas in shorter English sentence because I'm probably translating my Tagalog ideas as it is expressed. Much like reformed Egyptian into English.