jmjlaw

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  1. I didnt post here for condescension or feigned pity. I have read the scriptures. I'm not representing that anything I wrote it "true"- they are just what I observe to be logical extensions (not facts) of the scriptoral text. I was really trying to get some thoughtful responses. I expected this response, but I didnt want to type out and rebut every anticipated response in the OP, so here goes. I understand Temple work (reember- "lifelong member"). One minor point is- we are not even allowed to perform baptisms for the dead for all. A good example is the pact agreed to by our church against doing such for Holocaust victims. How those individuals will ever receive their necessary baptism is beyond me. Aside from that grouping of several million, there is still the issue that the person who received the vicarious ordinance must accept it. I stil believe in the afterlife, if we haven't been baptised we are presented, yet again, with a Hobson's choice. Horrible permanent situation- A, or permanent Heaven- B. On what basis would someone ever choose A? Would it only be for the same reasons one would not accept it here- lack of full disclosure? We even have laws here on earth, that I feel would resonate with any reasonable person ,that full disclosure is necessary prior to entering any contract. I can only conclude tha t our mortal brain is incapable of comprehending G-d's justice, no matter how unsettling it looks to our mortal brain. This is circular reasoning. "The Plan is just because G-d is just." This is the type of response I hear anytime I present my questions, such as these. Frankly, faith in G-d's justice is the main thing I hold to and trust as reconciling what is otherwise portrayed throughout the scriptures as an unjust, eternal reckoning. Google "hobson's choice." It is a selection between 2 choices in which there really is only one choice. I choose to attend church and work my hardest, despite failings, to adhere to gospel principles because I have never heard another Plan or gospel that made more sense, made me feel better, or provided a better possible outcome for us all. That's not to say that I don't have plenty of moments where I have to suspend all comprehension and reasoning as to parts of the scriptures. I know- lean not on your own understanding. I get that- and that's where I have to sometimes shut my brain off and trust only in G-d's justice, which I will hopefully comprehend before death or after death. What consolation is that for the person who would much rather be in a higher state than a lower state had they just previously "accepted" the very thing that they wish they now had accepted? That's the same circular reasoning, but like I said, it's also my only source of reconciliation for all that I have written here. I have read that too about Brigham Young. But WHY would someone "choose" anything but the best. I would love to meet that (literally) infinitely self-deprecating person walking this earth. I am not trying to portray Him as spiteful- just rephrasing what I understand is written. Tell me how anything I wrote is not what is in the scriptures- especially regarding the based conept of the eternal nature of our reward (in varying degrees) or our punishment (in varying degrees). Arguably, the text does make him appear spiteful in places, while "just" and "merciful" in others. I tend to focs on the "just" and "merciful" areas and read quickly past the other areas. What else can you do? Thank you. You too!
  2. (1) why would 2/3 of the spirits of heaven choose to go to earth, gain a body, be subjected to the trials and pains of life, have a next to zero chance of exposure to the gospel and, hence, a (what would seem to be) miniscule chance of attaining the highest glory? I understand the experience argument, but so many, it would seem, will never return to Heavenly Father's presence and, therefore, the Plan appears gloomy on the whole. (2) What is the purpose of the "plan" whereby we come to, with small possibility of exposure, relearn the gospel that we essentially already had previously accepted by way of choosing to gain a body on Earth,especially when originally we had clear knowledge of the gospel and accepted it but now have a veil to shield us from what we once knew? It would seem that it would be to weed out the not-so-ardent or luke-warm followers...? (3) Did the spirits in heaven really have a "choice," per se as to whether to accept God's Plan. Take God's plan, or go to outer darkness. Was this actually a Hobson's choice? (4) On the topic of our post-mortal life rewards or punishments: why punish (see my meaning of punishment in 6) a spirit who, in clear and full disclosure, essentially accepted the gospel in the pre-existence, then here on Earth either rejected it fully or partially based on a less than clear and full disclosure? (5) In light of (4), it is often said that a spirit chooses his/her own fate as a matter of free agency. BUT, if that's the case, why after the fact would there be "weeping" "wailing" and "gnashing of teeth?". If there is regret, as those emotions and demeanors would strongly suggest, would those same spirits, at that time, choose a different path if they had the same degree of knowledge of the rewards and punishments. It would seem their present situation pained them. It would seem the level of disclosure we have here on earth would be partly the issue due to the described reactions of those cast out... ??? Isn't knowledge of your range of options an essential component to free agency? (see below as well) (6) Does it make sense to any of you to punish a spirit eternally? (I use punish because many in the lesser degrees of glory I can only imagine wouldn't feel quite as good as those in the higher degrees). I ask because so many at fast/testiminy meeting get choked up over how beautiful they say the plan is and it seems incredibly, incredibly harsh to me. in my mortal brain, punishment serves to promote justice and deterrance, but how can eternity serve as justice for sand in time acts of indiscretion, especially committed with less than clear and full knowledge? If we could fathom, as mortals are incapable of, the concept of eternity and to further comprehend the full range of possibilities in our afterlife, I would dare say that would be a would be a gamechanger. Some would say, the bad would be bad no matter what, but I consider these examples: I speed sometimes. Some of us LDS folks watched the Superbowl on Sundays. Some LDS folks drink tea. If any of those acts, were by State law, outlawed to the extent that if we did them, we would have our hands chopped off, we wouldn't do it. possibly EVER. No doubt that the occurrence of these acts would, at least, go way down. One of the reasons many fall astray, in my humble opinion, is their inability to comprehend the magnitude of the consequences to their decisions. Now chopping a hand off, as insiginificant as that is in comparison to the eternities, now that's something we can picture. Some would say that rewards or dire consequences are not what motivates them, but merely pleasing G-d, but that's just not how we're wired, IMHO. For example, the act of charitable giving/service gives our reward center one of the strongest feelings of satisfaction. It feels good to do it. I am very sorry for the rambling... I have jotted these questions out over the past 12 months amd I'm hoping to get some good insight into areas I feel are not addressed on Sundays. Thanks so much, in advance.
  3. ...lol.... the site said I wasn't eligible... When are you eligible.
  4. My first post. Now how do you post a thread? I have about about 15 dense questions that have been bothering me for years and I can't wait to get some insight.