lumberjacksdaughter

I forgot to say, "Thank you".

I imagined that is what it was but I wasn't positive. I knew about them. I just didn't remember their name.

Who are the sons of perdition?

I didn't know I was biting anyone's head off in particular. Sorry that you felt personally assaulted.

You know... Everyone who isn't me.

I didn't say that I cared what those people did with my money the times I gave to people on the street who were asking for help. I said that it would be great to have a "care" package available in the car to hand out. Especially if the driver of a car passing by happened to be low on cash that day. Dang. "You people" are hard to please. It was actually my 31 year old daughter's idea. I will have to get back with her and inform her that it is "cash only" when people are in need. Who knew? And while I'm at it, I will notify the food banks about this policy also! If you can't give cash, then don't bother. And the Bishop's Storehouse. I should notify them. Just give the people MONEY. It's up to them whether they buy essentials for for their family or not with it.

I guess I just have my nose out of joint (not offended - please don't throw a tyrade back at me about the idiocy of being offended) because they were talking about giving money to beggars that have signs saying "hungry" (I've handed out money many times to such people). I suggested always having a lunch sack with non parishable, nutritous food plus a drink prepared in the car to be ready to hand it out the window to such people in need, instead of money. Their instant reply to my suggestion was that those persons asking for help would more than likely just throw the food away, that it was not food that they actually wanted in the first place and that we should give them cash only and it is for them to decide what to do with it (food, liquor, drugs?). It was my first get together with the group and I had hoped that my suggestion would be met with approval.

No, I'm not talking about what non-Mormons think of us. I'm talking about what we say about ourselves. I was just at an older single adults family home evening. The seven of us were sitting around the dining room table after the potluck reading scriptures. The theme was we are nobody. We are no better than the dirt on the ground. My theory is that if we believe we are nobodies then we will behave like nobodies. Right now I assume the Lord needs champions, not nobodies. I understand that we should not be arrogant or judgemental of any other humans on the planet, no matter what their behavior or situation. I know we should not be boastful (seems like the other folks around the table were puffed up, boasting about how sincerly humble they are). I know that God created this world and everything on it and that we should acknowledge this and be full of gratitude for all our blessings all the time. Guess I just don't like being told that I am flotsam. That I own nothing and am nothing. I am a child of God. I am unique. I have unlimited potential. I am somebody.

FunkyTown, When I grow up, I want to be just like you. I think your response under the circumstance was mature and creative. I think also that you used tact and humor. And boldness can often be necessary to get a point across. Beats being offended and leaving the chapel.

Thank you, Suzie. Great advise. I believe I will move on.

Around 28 years ago we had a family member participating in the Sacrament Meeting presentation. We came very early so all our large family could sit in the front row to support our family member who was giving a talk. The bishop's young daughter (around 8 years old) took it upon herself to inform us that the front row was always reserved for her family. That bishop was quick to correct her and say that we were more than welcome to sit there. It just felt odd to sit down only to be told I needed to get up and move elsewhere. The entire center row I sat in had nobody and one purse in the middle. My own family over the years has went ahead and set in a couple different sections at times in order to welcome a single member or couple to sit next to those of us already seated. If there had been even a single member already sitting in the row where I had sat down I would have understood more. If the row in front was filled with the family holding the reservation, it would have helped if at least a couple of them had spread out in the empty row. We have done that. Sat a book or purse between our various family members to represent the ones not there yet so that it was more obvious that we would be filling up that space. Yes. I realize that inactive members should be thick skinned enough to not take offense when told they are not welcome to sit where they've already sat down, that they need to search for a vacancy elsewhere that has not already been reserved. But what if I had been a nonmember who had decided to come in to experience one of our meetings. I guess some of you would point out that the person was just not very sincere about checking out our meeting if a little thing like being told to get up and move elsewhere could discourage them. The sister who turned and informed me that I had to get up and move elsewhere could have first cordially greeted me and then tactfully explained the situation. Instead, I felt like I was at a movie theater. I'm not complaining about books, purses, a sweater, etc. holding places. If that were the case, I would have not sat down where I did and there would have been no need to tell me to get up and move elsewhere. WWJD?

I am in the middle of a divorce, really no place to legitimately call home for the time being. After leaving the home that my husband and I shared, while travelling around visiting various relatives I hadn't seen in quite awhile I attended Sacraments in eight different wards during the first eight weeks. I would try to find the meeting times in each location or show up at 9am if I couldn't. I ended up in the Seattle Samoan Ward one Sunday morning at 9am. I couldn't understand the words spoken but I certainly felt the spirit. They sang the hymns with such purity and passion! I stuck out like a sore thumb but a truly great experience! This morning I attended a ward back closer to where I started out while staying with daughters. I first sat in a chair behind the pews but realized I could not see spare hymn books so I moved up to a center bench that had only a small purse in the middle. When I sat down instead of turning and greeting me the people in the row directly in front of me informed me that that whole row was reserved for their family. I know I am wrong to have just left the chapel and left the building at that point. Just lost interest, is all. In the future I don't think I will ever tell a member that a seat in my vacinity is reserved. Now I know what it feels like if you are a little lost and unsure of where you fit in anymore.

I'm thinkin' the best way to make friends in church is also the best way to make friends outside of church. Do you want to make friends? Be friendly. Forget yourself... You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you. -Dale Carnegie Politeness and consideration for others is like investing pennies and getting dollars back. -Thomas Sowell There is a destiny that makes us brothers, none goes his way alone. All that we send into the lives of others comes back into our own. -Edwin Markham Whatever genuine emotion that we express toward any other person boomerangs back on us with redoubled force. -Brian Tracy Live each day as if it were your last. Better yet, as you come in contact with other humans throughout your day, treat each and every one of them as if that day were THEIR last! -Og Mandino

It's just difficult for me to understand where she would have gotten the idea that the church has an official position which discourages listening to faith centered music that does not come from an LDS source. I sincerely would like to know if she is correct.

As my children were growing up, sometimes persons in teaching/authority positions would be giving their own opinion but present it as scriptural doctrine. We often would discuss doubts/confusion about gospel principles when this would happen. My kids had a strong sense of fairness/justice/logic so they often had a keen sense of something not being correctly presented. The gospel at it's core is fair, just and logical. My 31 year old daughter has only gospel/Christian music to play at home and in her car. Most other popular music is not uplifting or positive, she says. Last night while we were traveling in her car she mentioned that she had always been told that we should not be listening to that type of music, that it was unaceptable to be singing about Jesus and the gospel if it was not sober, respectul and church santioned. I said I am sure those people meant that music in the chapel or even in classes should be from our hymn books and if not, should be reverent. I feel that outside of the church, that to choose music that is uplifting and encouraging, even if it has a good beat, is not against gospel principles. I am not talking about "rowdy" music. Mostly it is similar to what would be called "easy listening" or "soft rock" if it were regarding other non-religious topics. Is only music sold at Deseret Books acceptable? I once took someone to a Sacrament meeting where the members "mumbled" the hymns with no enthusiasm at all. My friend afterward asked me how the church could possibly be true. If it were, he felt the people would have been singing with joy, passion and conviction, not paralyzed with boredom. Maybe that Sunday, the hymns were all the ones with the instructions to sing reverently, gently, quietly, etc. We have some wonderful hymns where the instructions are to sing fervently, exultantly, vigorously, jubilantly, etc. (those are the ones I love the most).

My thanks to everyone who responded to my query. I appreciate your answers. I will now feel comfortable if I choose to wear a (small) modest, non-distracting hat to church. Now, what about sequins? Just kidding... (not really)

I know what you say is proper etiquette. When my son was a teenager, he did not understand why it seemed that girls are sometimes not held to the same dress standards. Men are encouraged to wear slacks, white shirt and ties. Sisters today (all ages) often wear denim dresses, jumpers & skirts. It would seem to be only fair that the Brethren could also wear denim. But, of course, it does not work that way. My son would ask why do the ladies get to wear hats when the men can not. I realize that a man would not be turned away simply for wearing, say, denim jeans and a sweater. I know it is a matter of respect to just dress the best one can. When I first joined the church in my early twenties, I was a little put off with the official dress standards. Then I realized that I was being encouraged to dress my best, not to judge anyone else for what they were wearing.

Soon after seeing the elderly sister look so charming in her dress and hat I found a similar hat. I compromised. I took it off while in the chapel for Sacrament Meeting but put it back on for Adult Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society. I did not feel awkward or out of place in those two classes (smaller hat no bigger than average hairdo). What do you think?

I tried to find the answer on the church website but could not. I've been a member for 40 years so I have the general idea. It's just that recently an elderly lady about 75 years old looked positively fabulous in a gently flowing attractive dress with a straw hat with matching ribbon. I know I hardly ever see women wearing hats in the chapel but I was just curious. If you know the answer or where on the official church website I could look up the Sacrament Meeting dress code in detail, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

Whenever I come up against a situation like this I just contact my Pre-Paid Legal attorneys and a letter from them usually takes care of the issue. Carol Sue Saunders. I'm not trying to advertise. Just trying to offer assistance.

The documentary America: Freedom to Fascism can be watched online. Just click the America: Freedom to Fascism banner at Patriot Dialogue I summarized the documentary into a seven minute talk which I gave on open-mike night at a little cafe in our town. If you would like to read it click on "Bad News" at Patriot Dialogue

Thank you all for your comments.

Have you read this excerpt from the book, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945 by Milton Sanford Mayer? Do you think there is any correlation between Germany then and America now? Just wondering... What no one seemed to notice ... was the ever widening gap ... between the government and the people ... And it became always wider ... the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway ... Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about ... and kept us so busy with continuous changes and 'crises' and so fascinated ... by the machinations of the 'national enemies', without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us ... Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted', that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' ...must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing ... Each act ... is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone... you don't want to go out of your way to make trouble ... And it is not just fear ... that restrains you, it is also genuine uncertainty ... And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it ... But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed... You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father ... could never have imagined." Source: Patriot Dialogue

First let me say that from what I hear, the system for getting into the country and aquiring citizenship is laborious and takes a long time. I recently heard of an American man who had to sell his and his Canadian wife's home because once she applied for permanent citizenship she had to go back to Canada and could not come back to the USA for at least a year because the process is so complicated and slow. Obviously the system needs improved. I hate it when people are forced to be dishonest to succeed and the ones that remain honest are punished because of it. (FYI - I am one of those who often gets punished for being honest.) That being said... I live in a Washington state city that is 60% Hispanic. The one time my grown daughter went down to get a little help from social services she was treated with total disrespect by the Hispanic girl at the desk and was refused help that an illegal immigrant in our town would have no trouble getting and not because of her qualification status, either. My 82 year old mother worked hard her entire life and gets far less help from the government than an illegal alien who just crossed the border would. And I know that all it takes is for a doctor to diagnose a Hispanic child with ADD in this town and he is practically automatically then given Social Security money for life. I was in the downtown area of our town when the Hispanics nationwide had called for an American Boycott. They were going to bring our cities to a standstill. I happened to be driving through our downtown on the way to Walmart. The main street was blocked off and the police directed us to a side street. We sat there for 30 minutes with no policemen around because the demonstration was blocking the street that the police detoured us on to. So my teenage daughter and I sat there while Hispanic women standing on the corner jeered and shouted rude comments with threatening gestures directed specifically at us. So when the president of Mexico, Vincent Fox came to our small town I was excited to join a secure our borders demonstration along his motorcade route. The police had police-taped our group back from the road 75 feet into a muddy field. I was anxous to participate and make my feelings on immigration known. Then I realized that there was a Spanish radio station playing on a boom box in the middle of us. I didn't think much about it but when a couple of the people in our group shouted out their thoughts on immigration to motorists passing by (intelligent and non-threatening in a peaceful way - I swear I am not lying) the people with the boom box turned it up all the way to blast out anything that our group might be saying to anyone. The police were 15 feet away across the police tape and did not even bother to come over and try to ask the people trying to provoke us to please turn down their music. After the motorcade passed the Hispanics with the loud music were allowed to cross the yellow tape and stand on the sidewalk waving their Mexican flags while we Americans waving the American flag were kept 75 feet back behind the yellow tape in the muddy field. When the organizer of our group walked over and asked the police how come the Mexcans could demonstrate on the sidewalk but we were relegated way back in a muddy field he informed her that he was in charge of crowd control and would do it how ever he wanted. When Vincente Fox was headed back our way to get back to the airport, the police started escorting the Mexicans back towards us. Our lady in charge said not to worry, that the police had assured her that they would have the Mexicans at one end or other in order to avoid any kind of confrontation. The police then proceeded to escorted the Hispanics square into the middle of our group again. We had a permit to protest in that spot. And I can guarantee you that our group would not have been allowed to mingle in the middle of the Mexicans that were demonstrating on our downtown streets May 1st. And of course the local media coverage was totally skewered and misleading. It all boils down to Americans made to stand far back in a muddy field and Mexicans got to wave their Mexican flags close by on the sidewalk as traffic travelled by when the motorcade was not close and traffic was not stopped. You explain to me why it is OK for illegal aliens to get much more government help and considerations then citizens who have spent a lifetime building up and supporting America. 50% of people in California prisons are illegal aliens. 30% of prisoners in the rest of the country are illegal aliens. One elderly lady along the southern border had to put up tall chain link fencing to protect her life and property. Illegal aliens wake up our citizens along the border in the middle of the night and demand food and water. The Amercan citizens' pets and cattle are killed and garbage builds up on their property. The current legislation says that before we build a fence along the border that we must get Mexico's permission. What say you? P.S. My kids' best friends for years now are Hispanic with really cool families and when I finally got to Walmart on May 1st, Boycott America day there were Hispanic workers at Walmart and plenty of Hispanic shoppers.

The vast majority of human beings dislike and even actually dread all notions with which they are not familiar...Hence it comes about that at their first appearance innovators have...always been derided as fools and madmen. -Aldous Huxley When Marconi announced he had discovered a principle through which he could send messages through the air, without the aid of wires or other direct physical means of communication his "friends" had him taken into custody, and examined in a psychopathic hospital. The stones that critics hurl with harsh intent, a man may use to build a monument. -Arthur Guiterman