Heber13

I have been baptized, hold the priesthood, go to the temple, and hold callings to serve others in my ward. You can hold these views and be a member of the Church. Yes, Jesus drank wine, as did the early church people...whether that is the same kind of wine we have or not, I don't know.There are 2 parts to the teaching. 1) abstaining from the substances outlined to be a Mormon is a good practice to avoid taking into your body things that have stimulants, and never give up or impair judgement to substances. 2) The principle of committing to a healthy lifestyle and sacrifice to be obedient brings blessings from God, who sees your sacrifice. The spiritual teaching is that you have control over your body to refrain from things, even if we may not understand what the big deal is with coffee or tea. With all commandments, you should try it with faith and see if you feel blessed by the Spirit and feel you should keep doing that. Why not other substances, like cola or red bull? Because it starts to defeat the purpose to start making super long lists. At some point, the teaching is given for us to understand, and then we live it and do what we think is right. Some mormons drink Coke, some don't. You make up your mind on things that are important, but there is a definition given of coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol and drugs...to give us a guide. Then you go from there on how you live it. I heard a story that I wondered if you would like to read about this topic...it may apply to you or not, but I found it inspiring: I think sometimes people get caught up on the commandments and don't know if they can live it. But if they try it, and see how it makes them feel happier, obeying those commandments isn't that hard anymore, because other things are so positive, it is easy to obey. This conversion comes over time, with prayer and faith, and searching for God to tell you in your heart what is right for you. It does take faith.

I'm not sure how temporary insanity really works for sin. I guess that is why Jesus is the Judge. I think as a society people are accountable for their actions and we need to protect other members of society based on actions proven, but I think God knows how to handle what is biologically going on inside a person and so the judging is left to him regarding sin and punishment from that regard.

The Church recently published a statement acknowledging it is not specifically caffeine that makes it banned. Fact is, we don't really know why, but church leaders have categorized it as coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, and drugs. These are stimulants that we want to avoid taking into our body, but trying to analyze the components and chemicals and explain why will not provide an answer.It becomes a matter of faith, and willingness to see if following the words of prophets will benefit your life. It does not need to be exaggerated as the biggest deal in Mormonism. Central to the faith is the teachings of Jesus Christ. Tertiary to the faith is following rules to abstain from harmful substances defined as those listed above. I know some Mormons who drink coffee, but it is going against what is asked by church leaders. They see more important things about the faith than that one rule. But to be baptized is to be willing to follow Christ, and one measure up front is seeing if you are willing to have faith to abstain to these things and see if it blesses you. Because we are not all perfect, there is a variety of examples of adherence to the rules, as we all work on things to come closer to God. You may like the taste, but you may ask yourself if you HAVE to have it, or if you are willing to make some changes in your life and be faithful to commitments, and see if God blesses you for it.

Yes it is. I believe Jesus preached to everyone to come follow him and find peace. Stories in the scriptures like the Prodigal Son confirm to us that because the Atonement is so infinite, we can all change and find good things. It takes work, but commitment to the Church can be a wonderful way to change and find stability in your life. Things like the Word of Wisdom (abstinence from alcohol, coffee, tea, drugs, tobacco) might bless your life greatly, if you embrace the meanings behind it. I was born and raised Mormon. I have tested it and studied it. I have searched other religions. I feel good about the teachings in the Church, and see my children benefit from its teachings. In short, testing my faith has helped me feel good about believing. Yes. The leaders do not all agree on all matters, and so they council together and pray and come to agreements, but they are individuals with their own ideas and opinions. They just look to God to lead them to His will on what to do. They are good examples to us, even though they are also mortals and fallible. I liked Anatess' comments. We learn things one at a time and don't run faster than we have strength, meaning you don't have to believe it all at once. I was on a mission and had one person not want to get baptized until they read and understood everything in the Book of Mormon. I told that person that will never happen. I've been a member all my life and am still trying to read and learn everything.I believe what I can, what the spirit witnesses to me is true. Some things I don't believe because I am still trying to understand it, and it becomes a ongoing effort to keep learning and keep growing closer to God. You don't have to be perfect to join the church, and there are imperfections with people in this church, because only Christ was perfect. Just come as you are, and strive to grow while also helping others along the way.

LP, thank you for sharing your experience, because I think you are right on the money! I really really think it is misunderstood by people who haven't experienced it. Others may try to make sense of it by saying the person is weak or is sinning in other areas of life or something like that...but when my daughter attempted suicide and I had to listen in therapy sessions of her deep pain, and her thoughts on how to release the pain in ways like cutting or burning, it was so hard to hear her talk about it. Though it makes little logical sense to me, it is real to her.She is in therapy now and on the proper medications she is making great strides. But it is not helpful to tell the person they just need to try harder or pray harder and God will comfort you. It often takes medication and therapy. We just don't understand the brain and how it works sometimes, and it can't get conflated with typical spiritual issues. Bishops are being counseled more and more to refer members to professional help, because their spiritual discernment isn't the kind of help some individuals need in their circumstances. I believe sin is when the person is willfully acting against laws of God. I don't know how willful some people are when their brain is unbalanced, so I try to not lump everything into bad situations come from sin. It is too broad of a brush.

You should also realize, coming from experience, therapists vary, and although it takes patience, you should look for a good one, and try a couple. Rarely do people find one therapist, and that's all they need. It can be a very different experience when you find a good one, one that you really connect with, and that really helps you release your problems, not bury them further. Some therapists aren't that great. You should look for one you like. At your age, that is hard to do on your own. I think your bishop may be able to help you. You asked if it was serious. The answer is yes. When you self-harm, your brain releases chemicals that make you actually feel better about it...it is a way of coping. But it becomes an addiction, like drugs. The addiction doesn't lessen or stay the same...it becomes tolerant to the current levels and wants more for the same feeling. I just want you to know you are loved by Heavenly Father for who you are. But it saddens me to see youth be so hard on themselves. You may want to reread Moses chapter 1, and see how Moses knows he is a Son of God, not a son of man as Satan wants him to think. There is something special about our potential as God's children. You are loved for who you are. :)

It is not a matter of it being on a list of things you can or cannot do to pass the sentinels letting people into the Celestial Kingdom. It is a matter of positive mental health. Some people in this world have need of medication or professional help to deal with their mental state, whether that is caused by abusive experiences as children or chemical imbalances in the brain not the fault of the person born into those situations. Most professionals warn that such behaviors do not go away by themselves. They even sometimes escalate to more intense behaviors that impact lasting relationships with others or happiness for the individual. It can be serious, and should be discussed with a professional, not because God may not let you in the CK, but because you need to find safety and peace in this existence. I think God judges us on how we cope and deal with trials given to us. Self-harm is not in line with Gospel Principles of becoming "like" Christ. I suggest you turn to professional help to assess your situation.

Perhaps there are some things we are taught in our culture to be humble, and not puffed up. So when we put ourselves down, it can feel like we are avoiding the sin of pride. But it is a twisted humility that is not healthy for us to do that, so the lasting effects are not a blessing to us, even if in the short term it may feel good to do that. I think we can joke at ourselves, realize our weaknesses and acknowledge that, without breaking gospel teachings of loathing ourselves any more that it would be righteous to loath someone else. It can be healthy to practice positive self-talk, and just make sure it is balanced so it does not go into pride, or swing the extreme the other way of being hate.

I consider romance novels porn, and prefer neither, but put adultery above that. I would prefer someone watching a gory thriller movie to someone committing murder. But prefer neither (can't remember the last gory movie I've seen).

I would not say Father rescinded it, I would say that further revelation clarified and provided greater enlightenment on the subject:

Well said! The Good Samaritan is a great example of what we should go and do likewise. We do not view the Good Samaritan as a story of teaching that he was good, but only Terrestrial Good.Good is good. We should seek after these things.

Norah, I think it goes just as well for Mormons. We will get our CK, if that is what we want. And yet, could there be more??? Do we believe all is revealed to us now...or do we believe in continuous revelation, and greater things yet to learn as we work to become more like Christ in love and devotion? What is damning to our souls is closing the door to progressing in thought and character, and thinking we know all things now with certainty, and then judge others through that limited lens. 1 Cor 2:9-10

I lump it in with Polygamy as something Joseph was trying to restore from things being read about in the Bible. Practice is always different than the principles he was trying to teach.

Its just a subtle difference from how I feel about it and how you put it into words, Vort. To me, it is an important difference, though, in how we view and treat others. I know you've been frustrated by the exchanges, so I'll be sensitive, but I'm saying there is a scenario #2 (above) that does fit into our gospel doctrine. That does not equate to your interpretation that "membership in the Lord's Church confers no advantage of any sort". My idea might be on the fringe, but it is not blatant apostasy if understood in the right light.

I like Dravin's answer, the bishop will decide as the judge in Israel. But you can likely expect to be held accountable for breaking the Law of Chastity after covenanting in the temple to lead to disfellowship for a period of time. They will likely have you not take the sacrament, and not give you callings for a period of time, revoke your temple recommend for a period, and want to see that you are sincere in your repentance. Repentance is about changing. They will want to meet with you regularly to see if you are able to keep promises and commit to reading and praying and attending your meetings with a contrite spirit. THe good news is you have done nothing that cannot be washed clean through the Atonement. But it is not an easy road, and will take faith for you to show you want to work back to full fellowship with the other saints who do keep the covenants they are making best they can. Do not feel your situation is a lost cause. I have seen many success stories. And I have seen many people not think it is worth it and fall away. It is up to you how you work through this, but you and your fiance need to look at learning the right gospel principles, not trying to plan a time frame when it can be done. Christ is the way. That is more important than how to figure out how to get married in a year. Keep focused on the important things, and everything else will fall into place.