Eman

Thanks all for your helpful insightful comments!

@Eowyn, Thanks. While she would take it she would also get angry for "trying to fix her." We've read a few books together and apart and done survey's like it before. So it's not that she's unaware of my needs. Just too overwhelmed (by children!) to bother with them.

Probably..and looking at it I could likely fill it out for her. :) Meeting her needs is doable sometimes. But if I screw up, as I'm bound to do (like show up 5 mins late from work) she refuses to accept an apology and something small becomes 2days of me either begging for forgiveness, somehow showing my sincerity, or else 2 days of silence. Moreover, it does nothing for her meeting my needs. I"ve been very frank multiple times with her and she doesn't do anything. For example, I have expressed to her my desire to have things done for me that show me she is thinking of me and loves me (Such as a little note, random gift, her planning some activity, anything that shows extra effort on her part) and she WILL NOT DO IT more than once. Anyways, I'm getting the feeling there is no easy fix to our difference in children. If we had a strong marriage built on mutual respect, this wouldn't be such an issue because she wouldn't want to have a kid knowing it would make me unhappy. I'll lett her "get over it" on her own. It's hard but there's nothing else I can do. Thanks,

I was wondering when someone would bring this up... I've heard it before and have to admit that I somewhat disagree with it. Sure, if I were PERFECT, giving selfless service and unconditional love would work great. But I'm not. I'm human. I'm selfish. I want things. I crave love. When my needs aren't met I feel depressed. I've attempted what you suggest and it works just fine...except that I feel depressed. eventually my endurance or patience gives out and I revert to more selfish desires of having her actually show love/intimacy back. So while I agree that it would work, I am not yet "spiritual" enough for this method.

Oh and I should clarify...we know WHAT the problem is. We've read a few marriage books. I'm not sure how to fix them. I'm the type of person that reads something and INSTANTLY jumps into action making changes, sometimes without sufficient thought. So I work to apply the principles we've read. She doesn't. And if I point it out she just get's defensive. Like I said, she is very emotionally driven. Logic doesn't work even a little with her. So when I say I don't know what to do it's because I know I can't change her. Any change I make is unnoticed or ignored by her. Any request I make on change on her part may be tried once and then not again by her. She is in a big sense in a rut but can't or won't change. Thus I don't know how to fix it... This is why I"m hesitant to go myself. I know they'll help me change, but if she doesn't change, it doesn't help. In fact, some things I've applied from books made things worse when only done by me...

Sigh again...I've asked. She won't. She believes we can work things out on our own. At a general level our problems stem from both of us being different than when we married. She is a person who hates change for no other reason than it lacks the comfort of the familiar. Thus it's really hard to adapt to changes when you refuse to accept them. Another problem is that I thrive on independence and resentment builds when I feel controlled. My wife likes to control (see the first point and how control relates to non-change). She claims to not love me or feel close which she sort of uses as an emotional club to try to get me to do whatever she wants. Anyways, I could go on and on but then I'll just be reprimanded for being uncharitable and pointing at her as the source of the problems. I'll be the first to admit that my view is inevitably distorted. That's why I'd love to see a counselor... Both of us have admitted that if we met each other today, we'd likely not even start dating. Makes for a really hard problem. If kids weren't an issue, we'd probably be separated by now...

Would love to, but don't know how. :)

@anatess oh, and she hasn't breastfed for over 6 months. But she does feel depressed and suffers from anxiety. All of this, of course, makes it worse for me. A big part of me wants to give in to make her happy and her suffering less. She suffers from a variety of issues right now, and I don't help. But I feel the desire to have a baby is just her way to try and fill the emotional void she feels from other problems, and that having a baby will make things worse, not better....sigh...

@anatess Yes, we do have bigger problems. Too much to go into detail here. We both know that and get it. And my wife verbally has agreed that it wouldn't be prudent to consider having a child until these issues are resolved. We've been working for over a year to resolve our issues and honestly, haven't had a ton of improvement. Take all of our marital problems away, though, and I still don't want more kids. Four is enough. @Eowyn I agree. But she doesn't. She simply thinks it's selfish of me to refuse her. Right now, I can't fathom me changing my mind. But if I did, I'd of course revisit the issue. Right now I just want to know what to do to help her. Maybe there is nothing I can do but appear to be a jerk...It's just so hard. She's very melodramatic and emotional. Logic means nothing to her. Thanks for both your replies!

Very "simple" problem. Have 4 crazy energetic children. Wife want's another. Youngest is 1 year. I'm done. I don't feel I can handle more. Moreover, I don't think she can handle more. I can't understand why she wants another when all she ever does is complain about the ones we have (they really are a handful and I don't blame her). We've talked about it off and on since our last was born. I really felt we were done and told her so. Eventually, I said we'd consider it later, when/if things mellowed out with our other children and if/when things got better in our marriage (having other issues that cause weekly fights). Anyways, we're struggling just to keep ourselves together and this topic came up again. I finally just said no, it's not going to happen. Now she's all a mess, tells me how selfish I am, how if I loved her I would not do this to her, etc. I know it sounds so selfish so her words really hurt. But I can't do something like this just to please her. I honestly feel like our marriage is so fragile that we couldn't handle yet another. I've even prayed to have God change my heart, but to no avail. What can I do? Do I just remain steadfast, and let her "morn?" She accuses me of being cold, emotionless, but really it hurts me to make her so sad. Have any of you had conflict with quantity of kids? How did you resolve it?

@applepansy Thanks for the recommendation. Just ordered it (the book version) on amazon. I look forward to reading it!

But if you're confused before you pray, does it count as a stupor of thought? Or is it just the confusion you feel anyways for not having enough info to make a good decision... I'm not sure whether I have or not. I think that most often when I've had a "stupor" I've just acted on the best choice feeling frusterated that God wouldn't give me the answer! Yes I try to arrive at a decision but to be honest, I just can't always. And pretending to make a choice, asking God if it's right, not feeling better about it and moving on to the next option doesn't work. (tried that and just hear crickets. )And yes, I agree, that being thankful is very important. What I believe is that prayer works differently for different people. Keeping in mind that revelation is a gift of the spirit, and not all have the same gifts, perhaps the use of prayer for revelation just isn't a gift I have. Of course, I could just be excusing lack of faith... But even if this is the case, we're taught that we can seek after spiritual gifts we don't have and possibly receive them. This is surely one I could use.... /Eman

Yes I've prayed for understanding. Perhaps I was directed to come here? As fior stupor, well that's a difficult one. I'm not sure I have. See, I have in the past "arrived at a decision" in order to just have one. Then I would ask and not feel good about it. But in truth, each one of these situations were those in which I simply didn't know what to do. The decision was a false one, one without "firmness of purpose." I didn't feel good about it before I asked, only confused. Thus I still felt confused after the fact.

@Vort Determination - 1) Firmness of purpose; resoluteness. 2)The process of establishing something exactly, typically by calculation or research. Sounds to me like it's the same thing. Yes, I know this was to oliver cowdery but it's one of the most specific and detailed instructions for getting answers to prayers that we have in the scriptures, even if in different situations. But as Oliver had to first arrive at the correct translation, so too do we need to go before the lord with a choice made or "a determination." But back to the original question. If you don't feel this scripture is a good one dealing with my specific issue, feel free to provide another one as I was posting a sincere question regarding a real problem that I have. As you say, if I go to God with problem and no solution, I'm not likely to get an answer. And if I go the God with a solution or firmness of purpose that I've arrived at, then likely I will continue to feel good and thus accept that God confirmed my decision. Now, I never said prayer was useless and even pointed out that I've received blessing as a direct answer to prayer. Although now that you mention it, how is prayer useful as a means of personal revelation if A) God never contradicts the conclusions I draw and B)I always must first find the answer on my own? To be fair, I recognize the importance of praying for guidance in arriving at a conclusion and truly believe God can and does bless people in this way. But again, this seems more like Him blessing us with what we need to make decisions. But if this is the case, why should I add the seemingly fruitless excersice of asking Him if my choice is correct in the end? To give a more concrete example. I dated much before I met my wife. When I did, it probably took less than a month for me to know that I wanted to marry. This decision I arrived at without praying and asking specifically about her (though I probably asked for help finding a wife). Later I remember praying and still feeling good about it and so I proposed. In retrospect, and with my experience in prayer, I can't imagine ever arriving at the point of asking God if I should marry someone and being told no as I would have already weighed it out and arrived at a no if it wasn't right. Now I face an issue where my wife and I are thinking about whether or not to have more children. To me, the very thought of more makes me shudder. I always thought I'd want more (at 4 now) but after actually having them and realizing how much work they are, I don't know if I can stay sane with more. So, If I make a choice (it would likely be not to have more), I would feel good about it and pray and recieve confirmation. In fact, since the thought of more makes me cringe, I can't imagine making the choice of having more and receiving good feelings about that choice. This is what moved me to post this question on this board. It's a tough question and one not easily answered in sunday school (trust me, I've asked in one form or another). To make this more fun, my dear wife is already decided that she wants more, even without praying. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if she pray about this, she will receive confirmation that we should have another. And this is where I get confused. Any ideas to help me out? Thanks, Eman

Before I start I want to state that I am an active, temple holding, member with a "strong" testimony of the gospel. With that said, one principle that has been hard for me in life is prayer. SO EASY!...in principle. But what I can't get are answers. So here's the problem. We're taught that if we need guidance we should work it out in our minds and then ask God if it (what we reasoned out for ourselves) is correct. If it is, we'll feel good about it and if not, a stupor of thought. Well the problem is that it just seems like that's basic human psychology. Of course we feel good or peaceful about a problem after we've worked through it and made a decision! because the confustion is gone! So whenever I try this excersice, I already feel good BEFORE I pray (Because I've reached a decision) and so recieve a "yes" answer. And anytime I simply can't decide, I have a stupor of thought (Because I'm still confused and haven't made a decion). Problem is, I don't believe that I'm just that smart. I can't possibly always work things out and arrive at the right or best choice. And if I simply don't know? well, I've never had an experience where pray in and of itself has shed light on the matter (not to discount the possibility of receiving blessing because of prayer. I've definitely been blessed with things I've asked for). So the question for those of you who do receive revelation through prayer, how does it work for you? How does your experience differ from mine? Thanks, Eman