SisterSarah

Eowyn, Neither had we and we have been around for a long while and moved a few times so this is not our original ward. It may have started as one person or "family" but apparently word got out somewhere. Suffice it to say people will work the system especially when the system is a tad weak and it's questionable who is minding the store. But if we are going to feed these folks the least they can be is respectful. Times are changing I guess.

Thanks for the tip, but good luck. Make an appoint with a secretary and hope someone gets back to you without telling you it's judgmental. AS for the comment that we joined because of the good values, that is true. Had it been this way when we joined MANY years ago, we likely would not have returned after one or two visits at best. And many of YOU are not reading this thread in it's entirety and assuming that people are working on improvement. What part is not read that it has been blatantly stated that they do not intend or wish to change anything and that it is up to us to be accepting. Oh well thanks for your time. Looking for somewhere to pray and study scriptures with much less distraction and much more respect

Good grief!!!!! I am not some old complaining futty dutty talking about a mere tatoo here, and we don't have band aids large enough. Body cast perhaps! But no one is attempting to cover anything. Actually one removed her top to show the artwork on her back as well. Like on this forum, the ward seems not to care or want to bother and we are not talking ONE person because these folks have recruited their friends (free food and rent) can draw a bit of a crowd). F words (that can be read from across the room) prominently displayed and definitely not covered but deliberately displayed for affect (so everyone can accept it), and language that matches the tatoos. And it is not just tatoos. OK I get that people have sins and some behavior that had to work on correcting. But people that don't recognize the behavior as wrong in the first place, and people that insist everyone else needs to accept the behavior as normal, is wrong by any standards. You can't even behave like that in most inner city public schools without a reprimand at best. But lets just keep defending the poor sinners (albeit they don't believe in anything being wrong) and call those judgmental that get tired on showing up every Sunday to this. We are just so done with it.

Perhaps for the same reason people make choices on where to send their children to school Many people send their children to Christian schools, charter schools and places where moral values are not only in the handbook, but enforced and expected of students. Perhaps the same reason that Clubs and organizations like the girl scouts, boy scouts, and a number of adult organizations have suggested dress codes that they expect that their participants or members abide by. Perhaps why people choose to live in areas, or do business in areas other than the ghetto where they do not need to be subjected to obscenities and violence. Perhaps the same reason why some businesses post signs that refuse to serve people without shirts, shoes or smoke on their grounds. Perhaps the same reason why people make choices on not being around music with obscenities, or frequenting places where pornography is acceptable and in plain view. Perhaps the above paragraph may explain why we had interest in the LDS church in the first place. Because we identified with the teachings, and the family values. Perhaps the same reason why we didn't join an extremist mosque or organization that displayed hate and violence. No one is suggesting the banishment of anyone. What I think should be accepted however, is when people refuse to comply with the basic respect and expectations of a group, they are told they must comply with certain behavior standards or come back when they are ready to do so. Personally, if someone makes it known that the only reason they are coming is to get their grocery list filled and get help with their rent but no one should judge their behavior, it is a dis service to other members and makes the teachings appear to be a farce or unimportant. We simply do not want to be a part of accepting this disrespect and enabling this kind of behavior which will only continue to get worse. Like anything else, people can and will choose what they will attend and will or will not support. I think that it's important to work on retention of members who get confused by what the church allows and stands for rather than continuing to baptize people to meet quotas. This is becoming common practice not just isolated instance. What's next spray painting graffiti on the walls and expecting other members to show up to clean up after them? Where does it end. No we are no perfect, but I would hope people would have enough respect to make an attempt to walk the talk. If not exactly what is the point.

Not judging anyone who IS trying to reform themselves. I am saying that there are people who come into the church with NO intention of informing anything and have been straight up about their reason for joining which has nothing to do with reforming to the ways of the church, rather expecting everyone to accept them as they are and as a member has the rights to "free stuff. " Not my words, it's a quote. I think everyone wants to mean well and assume that others come in that WANT to reform. This is not always the case at all. This is also exactly how many groups of people come into our churches, communities, cities, towns and country and eventually push their own agenda and change the entire structure of what was once a respectful peaceful non violent society. For those quoting verses about Jesus being accepting, remember he said sin no more not continue on with your own beliefs and we will all just accept it. Oh well perhaps we will visit a ward out of our area or some places that expects that a house of worship is to be respected.

First of all to answer all of the above, no we are not perfect, but a total lack of respect is another thing. What is the difference between accepting and enabling. As to prison chaplain, while it is true that in the 1950's we were taught to wear dresses, modest clothing, (mainstream makeup and tasteful jewelry were not frowned upon ) at least in the church we grew up. But self respect and respect for a place of worship was expected. I am also not implying or suggesting that we need to hide away from the outside world. But I do have to ask parents, to what extent do you allow your children to associate with others. Are you saying that it's ok for your children to associate, go to camp with, attend Sunday school (and or be taught by) ANYONE???? If these people were NOT baptized and attending the church, would you want your kids associating with them or would you for that matter want to, but the exception is they managed to get baptized. WE are not talking people struggling and overcoming wearing jeans in church, too much makeup, smoking, drinking etc: (wish that was all it was). What about people teaching a class or getting up in front of everyone at fast and testament saying "I know this church is true......" then attending a class right after saying I expect everyone to accept me as I am. And that same person get up in front of the church in a mini skirt, boobs hanging out under a sheer top, tatoos with F words and photos of guns and violence? Ok call me judgmental all you want. Or another that held a temple recommend with the F words tatoo visably. Sorry but I am all for teaching responsibility as well as respect. Forgiveness is fine also but enabling and condoning i not. There are people that have an agenda for being a member even when they full well are open about not even coming close to trying to "work through" anything. Instead they come to get some free handouts or to meet people and solicit kids. No one is perfect, but those who have no intention to try and respect the church they claim to be true is another story.

My husband and I have been discussing this for a while and are just not sure which direction to go. We joined the church a number of years ago, went to Temple, sealed etc: We always held the believe that a testimony comes from the heart and soul and one's beliefs in the gospel and relationship to God. Belonging to a denomination was always thought to be secondary to our testimony and out beliefs. Prayer, scripture reading, discussions and growth mainly happen in the home. But what attracted us to the church in the first place was the system of family values, a like minded sense of clean and moral living, and the opportunity to grow together, share in lessons, testimonies, sacrament meetings and interaction with those that share the same values. It is what set the church apart for us. In fact prior to being baptized (it was quite a while back), we were asked a series of questions. And then prior to going to the temple, more discussions and questions. But lately things have changed A LOT, and honestly if we were brand new investigators in the church we likely would not have returned with what our observations. Before anyone chimes in and says we have to love everyone, and be accepting and not self righteous, hear me out. The bar is truly being lowered and it appears that anyone with a pulse can be baptized and become members of the church. And if their behavior, appearance and lifestyle and customs are far different than what we have been taught, I guess we just need to be accepting and not be self righteous. Sorry, it is not a joy to go to church when new members are attending classes, going up on fast and testimony, sharing the sacrament and even taking on callings when their behavior, dress and appearance and lifestyles are not anywhere near what the church has taught in the past. Perhaps some lie in pre baptism interviews regarding their marital status or their open ness regarding illegal behavior that they say was during their inactive or less active times. And offensive clothing and even tatoos that are proudly displaying offensive words or photos depicting violence and are displayed with not attempt to cover them up; and actually declaring in classes that they feel they should be accepted for "who they are." Thank goodness we no longer have young children because no way would I send them to Sunday school classes and be exposed to that. It is getting ridiculous and the church leaders merely look the other way and tell other members to to be judgmental. So what's next, a biker gang, transvestites, pedophiles? It seems these days that anyone with a pulse can be baptized and join and it is a growing sub culture. It seems that eventually every value that we cherished will be meaningless. In any event, although we are believers, we are not sure we want to enable this behavior. Perhaps a church that still share the values that were once taught. Remember how we were all told we should set an example. Well the current accepted example is not something that is a good influence to put very mildly. Thanks for letting me vent.

I think we cannot say enough about this topic. We believe that our bodies are the Temple of God. We believe that having the opportunity to even have a body and be here is a very important gift from God. We believe that having a baby and bring a new spirit into the world with a body is a blessing. Yet how many within less than a year after that baby arrives feed it with toxins, sugars and junk foods and how many of those babies become obese before they even reach adolescents? We talk about the words of wisdom in the church on abstaining from drugs, smoking, alcohol, coffee, and tea all the while filling up on sugar and junk food. Although I am in a full agreement with the words of wisdom, I really wish the prophet would give some prayerful consideration to making a few additions. Seriously, common sense tells us that we are destroying these holy creations of bodies that we were given. We have come to this world to serve our Heavenly Father and learn to live right, not to live a life of indulgence, gluttony and destruction of the very life cells of our bodies.

Ahhh how would I make it without my water cooler. Being a health nut, I fill up a glass with "Airborne" and a power packet of b12 vitamin thing and it tastes like citrus and gives me that morning life. Loads of Vitamins so good for the immune system too. A while later I like protein shakes for breakfast. Sometimes an egg and toast. When I get ambitious I make pancakes.

This may be the hardest thing ever to answer when it comes to material possessions with the exception of life and good health. If there were a magic jeannie or a wish for me to have to a very long time is a long very healthy life. I am just one of those people that believes with good health we can have all the rest of the stuff if we are willing to work hard at it. I was once talking to a few friends about a hurricane threat and the conversation came up about what would we want to save in the event of a disaster. And without hesitation, my answer was if it is breathing we save it, and if not it's replaceable. Although I am far from what one would call wealthy, I have been blessed with a good education, a comfortable home, good food to eat. more clothes, trinkets and baubles that are even of practical use to me. I agree with Vort that family photos and journals are important memories and now with the age of computers and hosting sites we don't have to carry all that stuff around. But good health allows us to enjoy our lives and serve others.

Hala401, This response is not doctrinal per se, it is just women to woman, and sister to sister. Being a Mormon does not mean you need to miss anything. Being a Mormon is not about guilt or tormenting yourself with guilt. In fact the sheer beauty of it is we are a work in progress. We learn about Heavenly Father's love for us and the saviors love and forgiveness for us, so about his wrath. We learn to love Heavenly Father and we develop a sense of awe that he would have his son suffer on behalf of our transgressions long before we even transgressed. We learn to do Heavenly Fathers will through service to others so that we and those we serve can come to know the love of Heavenly Father and know the fullness of joy. If you happen to be comfortable wearing a Hajib, then wear it. If five times a day is when you choose to pray, do so. But Heavenly Father is not going to love you more or forgive you more or less based on these things. I feel as loved by Heavenly Father when I am laying in the sun on the beach wearing a swimsuit and pondering the beauty of creation, as I feel sitting in the Temple wearing whites, or praying in church in a simple skirt and blouse. And as for garments, I don't wear them because I feel they will protect me, or that I am covering a shameful body, rather I wear them as a reminder of a covenant and promise I mad with Heavenly Father. Sometimes on a busy day I say a prayer in the morning or one before meals, or if I am just busy or preoccupied I supposed there are days I forget to pray alltogether, but I do my best for that not to be very often. Many days I pray more than five times a day and especially in church most of us pray considerable more than three times in the course of the day at church. My family is very interfaith and multi cultural. I am perfectly fine with attending a catholic mass. My grand daughter just made her first holy communion and I was there in her church to celebrate with her. I have also attended several Seders on Passover and prayed along side dear Jewish friends. But the fact that I am a Mormon remains. My love for Heavenly Father, and even more important, my conviction that Heavenly Father loves me, is what it is all about. I don't have all the answers. My goal is to build a very strong testimony, and be the best i can be. I fall short of that all the time. That is why we have the savior to pick us back up and the Holy Spirit to comfort us. I personally don't wear a Hajib and never have not because I see anything wrong with it, but because it is not a part of my cultural experience. If it makes you comfortable, then wear it. But Heavenly Father is a lot more concerned with the person under the clothing you are wearing. And although I believe that repentance is very important we should not be beating ourselves up with guilt. Doing that would not be trusting in forgiveness and the sacrifice of his son on our behalf. I think when we pray, no matter how many times a day, we should remember to thank Heavenly Father for his unwavering love. He will know you heart no matter what you are covering your body with. He knew you and loved you long before you were born and didn't yet have clothing at all. Talk to your Bishop, your Home and Visiting Teacher. In your prayers, see out Heavenly Fathers guidance and then guidance, watch for personal revelation, and you will not miss a thing, rather find more and more joy in the blessings that Heavenly Father wants for you. Sarah

I have given this much though over a long period of time and my take is a little different. Such an enormous amount of time and energy has been placed on picking scriptures apart and trying to get the "right" interpretation and disecting all the little discrepancies regarding the interpretations. I think of all the wars, how many people were killed, how many suffer, how many lose faith, how many despair all because they are so frantic over interpretations and discrepancies. The "peace that passes all understanding" and the testimony of faith and that feeling of being close to our loving Heavenly Father creator God, is not found in the symantics of any book including scriptures. It is not found in trying to interpret from Aramic to Hebrew to Greek to King James English, to determine what interpretation of language, word useage is "right." Nor is any of this useful if it is for the purpose of debating who is right and who is wrong on issues of liturgy, religious social customs, becoming authoritive or self righteous on assuming to know what the exact meaning and truth is. Instead one must read and study scriptures and pray. And through a pure heart and pure love for our Heavenly Father we learn of his love and his guidance for us to live in happiness and peace and know the fullness of joy. It really is that simply but it is not an easy task because as humans with free agency we seem to need to be "right" or in control. It is just about God's love for us and our love and trust of him and our desire to serve him through serving each other. I think this is time better spent than in debating each other over who is "right." Sarah :)

Completely agree that it comes down to personal choice. But don't understand the tithing comment. No way are Masons asked to tithe and annual Lodge dues are very nominal (depending on what you drive less than one tank of gas). Marriage is all about trust and compromise. This really goes beyond whether someone wants to join the Masons. I think it is about good couple communication. What if you want to be involved in a ladies group, or a sewing club, or take up golf for a hobby or any other hobby. What is important is that a couple supports mutually support each other no matter what the hobby or activity, and base the marriage on mutual respect and trust.

Although I agree that everyone has the right to vote with their pocketbook, I think this entire chicken fila controversy is just that, all about politics and nothing to do with the chicken. I personally do not eat at that restaurant but not because of any socieo political stand on any issue; but because I don't care for fast food restaurants at all. That said, I think the politicians that made a stand to boycott a place of business (any legal place of business) is wrong. We elect politicians to do the business of the people but not to interfere with private enterprise. The irony in the boycott of this restaurant is if it is meant to be in support of gay rights, then what happens iof there are gay people that are actually employed by chic fila? It is highly unlikely and even illegal for a company to inquire of a persons sexual orientation before hiring them so it is also highly likely that gays could be working for that restaurant and would lose their jobs if the restaurant is boycotted. Somehow I think these politicians were using this as an attention getter during an election year. My take on this is if you like the food, then go there and enjoy it. If you don't like what is on the menu, find another place to eat.

Chubbs, I enjoyed your explanation of the title of Worshipful Master. I did not know that. Luna, I would not be too concerned about the names of the titles. When we first joined the church we became friends with a man who was a former Bishop who was definitely very energetic and he was also a Past Worshipful Master, and also a "High Priest and Prophet" in the Shriners (another group of Masons) who trust me that title has nothing to do with religion other than they lead the prayer before a social dinner. And as Chubbs pointed out they only hold these offices and respective titles for a year. My husband held the office of Worshipful Master twice although not in the same year because it was a small town and a small lodge so members took a second turn around so to speak. As for worrying about your husband having "a secret" give some thought to the difference between secret and deceit. There is a big difference. I think sometimes people define secret in a negative sense and compare it to deceitfulness or dishonesty; which is not the case in this topic.

My girls were never in Job's Daughter rather Rainbow Girls which is another girls Masonic organization 13-18 age range and the values taught and the fun they had doing good work for the community is something that lasts a lifetime. Much like Girl Scouts but much more. Meetings can be as often as once a week depending on where the Lodge is, but many are bi monthly or monthly with a lot of social activity. Although the men have meetings that women are not a party to, it is no different than Priesthood at the Church as woman do not attend Priesthood meetings. Another similarity is that men do attend Eastern Star meetings much like a Priesthood holder would attend and over see a Relief Society enrichment meeting. I see a lot of similarity. There is secrecy between men and women in the Church especially in the Temple. And although they are supposed to be secret, many couples share the "secrecy" which is no big deal regardless of it being among Masons and their wives or Temple Mormons and their wives. One other thing not mentioned is that although the general public seems to be wary of Masons, they seem respect and hold Shriners in the highest regard. Ironically, you must be a Mason to become a Shriner. And ironically Shriners drink alcohol at their functions whereas Masons do not. I think there is a lack of understanding. For the person whose husband plans to become a Mason, you may very much enjoy the socializing among other wives and families. It's all good.

Like any organization it is not for everyone. In reality there are always secrets between spouses of some kind.. Even in the LDS Temple there are secrets between men and women. I know I had a bigger problem with the name secret at the Temple (and I'm the wife of a Mason). I have found that all of entire family Masonic affiliations became something we did together as a family.

Nothing should be off limits between two people contemplating marriage. When you marry you are intending to spend a lifetime and beyond together and becoming a family. Building a marriage on open communication and trust is paramount to the survival of a marriage and an intact family.

My husband and I are Mormons and my husband is a Mason and has been since 1974 (before we ever joined the LDS church). My husband has also held the Masonic office of "Worshipful Master" and trust me when I tell you that NO ONE (Mason or Otherwise) ever has worshiped him or anyone else holding that office with the very fancy name. Actually I read your post to my husband and we both got a chuckle out of that one. I personally am a member of two ladies Masonic Organizations and we hold titles like Princess, Queen, even Priestess. Our children have been in Rainbow Girls and DeMolay the girls and boys Masonic organizations. (Fancy titles for offices there too). BUT the Masonic organizations are definitely NOT religious, nor do they have a doctrine. Very high values are a focus and becoming a better person. There is a lot of fun and fellowship and Masons and their wives and children are members of many religions, catholic, protestant, LDS, Jewish you name it. The reason it is confidential (hate using the word "secret") is because there are those who do not understand the symbolism and ritual and would seek to seek out against it and defame it. Joseph Smith was indeed a Mason,. as was many of our founding fathers of our country. If you have been to (LDS) Temple (or when you do), you will find some similarities between the LDS Temple and Masonic ritual. Rituals in both is a type of role playing, and "Worshipful Masters" or similar titles are not much different than Temple symbols. I will. not go into more detail. If a person is agressive in knowing about Masonic rituals there are books out there so it is not all that "secret." However I caution against that method of seeking only because there are a lot of Anti Mason books out there that are far from the truth, just as their are Anti Mormon books that are far from the truth. I find no incompatability with being a Mormon and a Mason. No need to worry.

Personally I am not into reality shows and it's is not a religious thing, just personal preference. We also prefer live theater to movies. That being said though in the evening if there is time for TV we like Criminal Minds, Cold Case, Leverage, NCIS and CSI. Then again I prefer a good Dean Koontz book when I have the time to actually commit to a fiction novel.

Sabbath for us is a day off and a day of rest and relaxation from the day to day life of our very busy careers. My husband and I go to church and before we go home from church we go out and have a nice dinner in a restaurant which for us is a relaxing treat and a chance to be together to enjoy a dinner . Our children are grown and we are too busy with our professions to have dinner out during the week so this is rest and relaxation. Some Sunday evenings we enjoy dinner theater. We don't go to the movies but theater is something we love and it's a luxury. Since we generally work out at our gym in the mornings before starting a work day, Sunday doesn't work for a gym workout before church; however we have been known to go to the gym on a Sunday evening for a swim or sauna, (more relaxation). I don't think the church dictates what your personal activities are. And we don't feel that going to a restaurant or a health club is "making" anyone work. People that work on Sundays choose to do so. I know a number of people in our ward that do work on Sunday's after they attend church. My suggestion is that the Sabbath is a day of rest. Rest to some may be different than others, but it is to me restful and relaxing to do things that you would not have the opportunity to do during a busy work week. Enjoy your Sabbath.

After a number of conversations with my husband and with fellow members, I seem to be becoming increasingly frustrated with the Visiting and Home teaching programs. I mentioned in another post that when my husband and I converted we were making changes in our lives with the kids away at College, and us seeking a social life. The fact that the Ward we were baptized at was very close knit, made our conversion very desirable from that standpoint alone. Although we all develop our testimony at different times, I do believe many converts join because of the sense of wanting to belong to a community of people that share many of their core values. For many members, what keeps them true to the church is the constant encouragement and the sense of family ties with their fellow church members who become like an extended family to them. In our former ward when another brother or sister was in need whether it be just to talk about their concerns, questions, doubts, illnesses, fears, personal or family challenges; the visiting and home teaching programs helped to bring people together within the church to help each other just as real loving brothers and sisters would. But lately we are finding a very big change in the concept of visiting and home teaching. It seems the church "counts" a visit if the visiting or home teach drops a card in the mail, sends and email, or even has a group get together in their home. Some have even said that a brief greeting and chat before sacrament meeting or between church meetings met the criteria as a visit to report in. Apparently this newer practice comes right down from the presidency of the church. And many seem to believe it is because women work out of the home and people are just more "busy" these days. HUH????? No one was more busy in the early days of the Church, the Relief Society or even in my parents days where there were more children, no automatic washing machines, dishwashers, two cars or more in the family, and no modern conveniences to help people be less "busy." What happened to the days when home teachers would visit another family. Sit in their homes and really get to know them their thoughts and their concerns and challenges. What happened to sisters that took the time to care for each others children. bring a meal in to someone who was dealing with or recovering from recovery from illness. What happened to sisters who another sister could confide in with her challenges, her concerns, her fears. People do not want to discuss personal sisterly and brotherly confidences in an email or a brief encounter a few minutes prior to sacrament meeting or in a group get together for the purposes of meeting teaching quotas "faster and more efficiently for busy people." This new way of doing things really creates isolation and for many who have not grown strong in their testimony, it is lacking in encouragement. While I am on my soapbox, another thing that is concerning me is the lack of time members seem to have for each other in other aspects. When we first joined the church, the Relief Society and monthly get togethers. Now we have quarterly get togethers. How can you possibly build relationships and get to know everyone's name for that matter when you meet four times a year? Another idea is Ward or Relief Society Temple trips. In our previous Ward the Relief Society sisters would charter a bus and all go to Temple together for an overnight trip. A get way to know each other personally and a great way to share the Temple experience with other sisters. We used to sing hymns on the bus over and back and it was a very fun and rewarding outing a couple times a year. It also gave people the chance to attend Temple when they didn't feel or are able to drive the distance on their own. Much of this has gone by the wayside. Yes I have made these suggestions only to have them fall on deaf ears. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent a little. Anyone who has suggestions on how to create more cohesiveness among Ward members? Sarah

:) Hi Swiper, I have a few ideas to run by you, and since it appears that you are open minded and spiritual, at least hear me out and consider a few new ideas. First of all "Molly" has been married to you for a number of years and had a child with you that is in her teens. Assuming the two of you have a good marriage (you said you were changing church affiliations not getting a divorce), then I would also assume "Molly" knows you enough so as not to be completely believe that you are not a strong believer in the Mormon faith or at least the church policies. If she is strong in the church, then telling her straight up that you want nothing to do with the church, will likely be anywhere from unsettling to emotionally disasterous to her. Somehow I think he will not be totally shocked and there may be ways to work it all out over time. Here are a few suggestions and take them for what it's worth. I am sure some on this forum will disagree with me, but there may be some alternatives to making a fast decision that winds up throwing the baby with the bath water. So perhaps consider these ideas as an alternative option: First go to your quiet place where you can think, pray, meditate or whatever makes you feel most connected and spiritual. During this time, think about your time in the LDS church. Think about the things that you DO and DID like about it, and think about what attracted you to "Molly" who was apparently always in the church. Next define testimony! This is VERY important. The reason is, I believe there are countless people that are members of the LDS church that define if differently than the churches policies, political stands and such. There are some, (not the majority perhaps but more than you think), that think of the prophets as leaders of the church and have revelations regarding the running of the church, but not necessarily running the lives and minds of their lives. When Mormons attend a fast and testimony Sunday and bear their testimony believing the church is true, believing God is alive, believing in a living prophet; some may believe that in fundamental and literal terms and others may interpret it according to their spiritual beliefs. Somehow I don't think that you believe the church is completely false. You may see the truth in it but also be dealing with how your thinking differs from others you see in the church. Not everyone in the church has this clear eyed view exciting dramatic, unshaking faith testimony. In fact many members a a work in progress and may continue to be throughout their lives. Ok so now lets say you want to pursue another congregation where you can persue your spiritual path, and growth. Even if you sign up to membership and join the Unitarian Universalist church, the Unitarians are not going to judge you, or deny you membership if you still afilliate in another church. You will be accepted no matter what religion you are. regardless of how active, inactive or even a complete non believer in God. Now if you join the Unitarian church, the LDS church will consider you not worthy to go to the Temple, but it seems that is a non issue to you anyway. Mormons will still welcome you to church meetings and social events. So at this juncture in your life, I would not go to any extremes. Don't request your name to be removed from the church rolls just yet. If you are already set about joining the Unitarian Universalist Church, then enjoy the fellowship, and learn and grow in your spiritual quest. You can be on the LDS church rolls the rest of your life with no problem as far as the Unitarian Universalist church is concerned. This way your intact marriage will have time to deal with the changes. It is a much softer approach to your wife. By not burning the bridges so quickly you can also continue to enjoy those things about the LDS church that was attractive to you. This also gives you the option for open and honest communication with LDS church members and not cut yourself off completely. Perhaps in the future you may consider returning to the LDS church with a very different perspective on what a testimony is. Perhaps you will remain a Unitarian Universalist. Or maybe you will more on to another church, or maybe none at all. I respect you for being honest and true to yourself and your family. Regardless of the outcome, which may or may not be what you are ultimately hoping for, at least you are giving yourself and your family time to digest all this and put it into perspective. I wish you, your wife and your daughter nothing but joy as you each embark on your spiritual journey. Sarah :)

First of all congratulations on your engagement!!! My husband and I are converts and were married civilly. Our daughters will in college by the time we were baptized and we were sealed in the Temple later. I am not suggesting Temple marriage is not the ideal, but for us it was the best of both worlds. When we were married we had the joy of a wedding party surrounded by many friends and family members. We had Catholic backgrounds and so married in the Catholic church but that being said neither of us spent much time in a church before or after the marriage ceremony. Many years later when we joined the church we were sealed and although we had no family members there (we are the only LDS in our family), it was like a private and very spiritual renewing of our vows with the added benefit of it being beyond this life. At least for us it gave the Temple sealing more meaning. As long as the two of you are willing to make a life long commitment, you will be off to a great start in your lives together. You will very likely have challenges of many kinds, some conflicting ideas and even possible heated arguments. You will go through some sad time, perhaps even sorrows, and maybe even tragedy, illness and ultimately the physical loss of one another by death. So now that I scared the daylights out of you; just remember this is all part of life with or without each other. The difference between being married is that you don't have to go it alone which makes the tough times a little easier, and it makes all the joy, laughter and blessing that will also be a part of you life even sweeter. A while back my daughter and son in law were going through a rough patch in their marriage. They had sat in our living room sharing their feelings, some of those feelings through tears and unkind words. But I will never forget at the end of the day my son in law told my daughter that he was better off with her than without her. Somehow I knew they would be just fine. I got to thinking, that marriage is no different than any other part of life. It has it's up's and downs, but if you honestly believe that no matter what you are better off with each other than not, chances are you will one day be celebrating anniversaries in the presence of your grand children. Wishing you lots of happiness! Sarah

Thanks everyone. What I like about forums like this is that it helps to have someone else put it in perspective. I will definitely look up the talk by President Monson. I know when I think about it, we may be being a little selfish. We loved the closeness and friendships that we had in our first Ward, and we just related so well to everyone. I think we just miss. We also need to think about our feelings of the desire to go to church to be inspired and uplifted by others; and in so doing we are missing the opportunity to offer inspiration to others, thus enjoying the blessings of giving and receiving. Things do happen for a reason and it is no accident that we accepted this move and wound up in this Ward. Thanks again for the great responses. Sarah.