audreyII

I know you have heard from me about 50,000 times, but my advice would be to sincerely read the Book of Mormon - cover to cover - and sincerely pray about it, and pray to know if the Church is true. I am a convert of over 8 years, and I did the same. I prayed about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and I know that it is true. Because of this knowledge, I have been willing to follow counsel that hasn't been "easy" or may not be the most pleasant or fun. By following the counsel, however, I have also found the counsel to be true and have received blessings by doing it. The only way you can know this however is by you doing it, and not anyone else. So....that's my 2 cents.

That's awesome. (not the getting sick and job getting in the way part) And btw - regarding the fear of not measuring up to the doctrine...you can always grow. :) The Church is full of imperfect people - every one of them in fact! This is not a church of "make yourself perfect" and then join, it's a church of "let's work on becoming better together." But - I also understand if that is not your desire as well. Everyone is different, and everyone has a choice about how they want to live their life. We never want to force anything on anybody, because that is directly contrary to what we believe. :)

Of course you can't force advice on anyone, and that is no one's intention to do so. But, my point is that if a man doesn't view something like that in the same way I do, then I don't think he would be a good fit for me as a marriage partner. And off course you are welcome to church anytime, but our goal, however imperfect we may be, is learn the commandments and follow them, and learning how to align our will with God's. I'm by no means perfect at this, but I do my best, and I am getting better with time. Everyone is at a different point, of course, too. It takes time. All that is required is a willing heart to try to get better, even if we do stumble from time to time. (or a lot!)

Where you're coming from makes more sense now. Yes, in the LDS church, as adults, we are instructed to date for marriage and look for a companion to be married to in one of our temples for time and all eternity. We believe families are eternal and getting married and having children when possible is one of the most important things to do in this life here on earth. (Those who don't get married on earth, will have the opportunity to get married in the after-life.) As teenagers (16 or older, as we are told not to date before then) dating is to be less serious, and just a fun "get to know you" kind of thing, often times suggested to be in a group-dating kind of way. The problem that priesthood leaders have seen in the Church is that young men still think they are teenagers when they approach dating. They just want to "hang out" with other people around, and are not "pairing off" trying to find an eternal companion. (And the problem is also that the women allow this to continue.) So...while there may be some LDS single adult men (or women) who are dating not looking to get married, I would say based on our doctrine and counsel, the vast majority are - or should - at least be looking to get married. The ones that aren't looking to get married I'm not interested in anyway, so it's okay if they don't ask me out. Oh, and we also believe that a Stake president not only has the ability, but the responsibility to give inspired counsel to members of his stake, especially at the Stake meetings he presides over twice a year. Although while I am currently in a stake made up of just singles, when I have been in stakes where there were married couples and families I took the counsel that was given, wrote it down, and tucked it away in my head to be referenced for when I am married and have a family.

"Waiting around" hasn't worked - this is true, but as it has been pointed out, there is a difference between me directly letting him know I am interested and then waiting for the date and me just trying to send mental waves through ESP or indirect flirting that may be missed entirely or misinterpreted. My approach does need an overall change, and I will practice with this current interest of mine, but that still doesn't mean I should ask him out. But forget about the Stake president second. The general authorities are of the same opinion - men are the ones to do the pursuing/courting. (see links I posted) Oh, and "age gap" and priesthood counsel is irrelevant in my opinion. Are we supposed to say to a priesthood leader's counsel of listen to good uplifting music, watch and listen to quality music and television that invites the spirit, dress modestly, etc. etc. "oh, well you don't understand. In today's world, that's really hard, and almost impossible. You don't understand what it is like to be our age today." and then ignore it? No, you don't. (Or I should say, I don't.) Besides, I don't want to be married to a man that goes to Stake Conference and selectively hears counsel and dismisses some/all of it as well-meaning, but irrelevant and out of touch advice. I wold rather be single. For the record, I have several friends who are married and *ALL* of them waited to be asked out by the man. One of them without even thinking about what she was saying (although it was true and was the message she was trying to convey) was complaining that guys aren't asking girls out enough, and she wants to be asked out on dates. He took the hint she wasn't even consciously trying to send and asked her out. She of course accepted the invitation that was then extended, and they are, like I said, married now. So it *is* possible to express interest, express feelings about wanting to be asked out, but still not actually *ask* him out, and still get married. Even "today".

Well said. And because of you all collectively, I am better learning that twirling my hair, smiling at a guy and talking to him, etc. etc. probably won't get me a date in many circumstances. I really like knowing that I have the power and ability to communicate interest, and still stay off what is to me the not good territory of being the asker-outer, and not the askee. Some may disagree, and that's fine, but that is what is best for me.

I quite frankly don't want a man that I can't trust to follow counsel of our priesthood leaders. (And in this case, I don't think a Stake president would give "bad advice" over the pulpit in a Stake meeting. That is my personal opinion.) I need to have a man that I can trust to do the Lord's will, follow our priesthood leader's counsel and will lead our family well. Maybe this is "insignificant" counsel, but if He can't do THAT, when will he start listening and acting? I owe it to myself and my future children to make sure that I wisely select whom I want to be the patriarch of my family. I would rather wait until the next life to get a husband than to select one I can't trust to do the basic things and get married just to get married. Maybe that's "picky", and of course no one is perfect, but to me, this is so basic. Assuming I am being direct with him with my intentions (even if in some cases it requires saying "I would love to go out with you sometime"), he needs to pick up the ball and run with it at that point. If I am that direct and guarantee him a "yes" and he doesn't ask me out, to me it means one of two things. 1) He's just not interested or 2) he doesn't listen to me. Yes, some men are denser than others, but if I am that direct of "I would love to go out with you sometime" and he doesn't get THAT, this is a sign of many future communication problems to come. I already foresee marriage counseling with that. (Being 26, I will only date someone when there is a potential for marriage. I am willing to date until there is something that lets me know he is not the right one. If we can't start with good basic communication, that is my sign he's not the one for me. Even if some women wouldn't have a problem with that, it would bug me to no end.) I agree, I need to learn how to be "outgoing" in the area of dating. I need to do a better job of letting intentions be known - and that includes politely but directly letting him know that I'm not interested if that is ever the case. That does not mean, however, that I need to do the asking. In other areas of my life, I am not passive at all. I am a very ambitious person that has plans and goals, but just needs some practice in effectively figuring out my role in the dating process. Oh, and I could I have forgotten this? Dating versus Hanging Out - Ensign June 2006 - ensign "Men, if you have returned from your mission and you are still following the boy-girl patterns you were counseled to follow when you were 15, it is time for you to grow up. Gather your courage and look for someone to pair off with. Start with a variety of dates with a variety of young women, and when that phase yields a good prospect, proceed to courtship. It’s marriage time. That is what the Lord intends for His young adult sons and daughters. Men have the initiative, and you men should get on with it. If you don’t know what a date is, perhaps this definition will help. I heard it from my 18-year-old granddaughter. A “date” must pass the test of three p’s: (1) planned ahead, (2) paid for, and (3) paired off. Young women, resist too much hanging out, and encourage dates that are simple, inexpensive, and frequent. Don’t make it easy for young men to hang out in a setting where you women provide the food. Don’t subsidize freeloaders. An occasional group activity is OK, but when you see men who make hanging out their primary interaction with the opposite sex, I think you should lock the pantry and bolt the front door." That is from Dallin H. Oaks. This is very direct, like I need to be, when I am interested in someone.

I guess, here's the thing with me - as a single 26 year old woman. Generally speaking - As I have mentioned, our stake has been counseled for women to not ask out men. The Stake president saw that men were "getting lazy" in the dating department, and women beginning to take the initiative was perpetuating that problem. Some may claim that is his personal opinion. Yes, this is. But he also has the keys to guide our stake. Also, his opinion does not come out of nowhere. It is the message sent by the brethren - now and in the past, that it is the man that is supposed to pursue. They always "feel sorry" for the women, and tell them to have faith, and that all promises will be fulfilled in the eternities, and they address the single men with a "get a move on it" attitude. Does that mean it is a "sin" for a woman to occasionally take the lead and be a little more direct sometimes? (especially since that appears to be necessary because some our dense, at least it has been established that way.) No. Is she responsible for clearly expressing interest or politely and directly declining if she is not interested? So - this is the counsel I am listening to. This is the attitude I am interpreting from my priesthood leaders on multiple levels. I suppose that not everyone would interpret things in this way. I think it is pretty clear, but some may disagree. That's okay. However, I guess if I came across a man who disregarded this counsel and general attitude or perhaps interpreted it differently, I don't think we would be a good match necessarily anyway. So...if they're not into asking me out, paying for the date, eventually courting me, etc. I'm not interested in him. So...fair enough, I guess. Here are some examples of the things I'm thinking of when I talk about the attitudes of the brethren on this subject. Dating: “He Says,†“She Says†- Ensign June 2006 - ensign The Eternal Blessings of Marriage - general-conference Both of these are relatively "recent", if that matters.

Personally, the farthest I would ever go would be outright expressing to him that I would like to go out sometime. I know that it is 2013, but based on counsel from the brethren, and the instructions of my stake president to the stake as well as to me individually when I talked to him, I wouldn't do the asking. If another woman decides she wants to, that is fine by me and none of my business (unless if she is asking me out...and then we got problems...), but for me I wouldn't do the asking. It is helpful though to be pushed in the direction of "direct". I would be the one guilty of playing games, thinking that my signals are "obvious", but only obvious to me and the other females. Been there done that.

The difference between a funeral and a wedding though is that you usually have notice of getting married - you don't always have notice of dying. And of course once you die...you've missed that window of opportunity. :)

I like how you think. And you know what...if it works and he asks me out - great! (and then if it goes on from there...that's cool, too!) If not - well, that's fine, too, because I certainly have plans I'm excited about for after graduation that do not involve a husband. (Which actually getting married - especially to him, would thwart, at least for a time.) But to think if it DOES work out, and this overly excited phase is a way of something telling me somehow "this is the guy!!!" what a story that would make! If not, then I'll just justify it by saying that every girl/woman is allowed to get a little twitterpated from time to time. lol

Thanks for all of the advice. :)

Yes, true story! I'm not in high school anymore, so I need to stop acting like this! I'm a grown woman, and while it is on the Lord's timetable, I do need to get married, and I do need to do my part. Because he is the person in my Sunday School class who thinks I'm the funniest, I think I might take the approach after church next Sunday of saying "Hey - thanks for laughing at my jokes!" and see how things go from there. See how he responds. I don't want to turn this into a game, but this is a way I would be comfortable approaching him. As a friend of mine says "It's only awkward if you make it awkward". Because you know...if I'm that funny at church, I'm a riot the other 6 days of the week! (maybe that sounds awkward, but I may be able to pull that off. lol) I need to g-r-o-w u-p! Btw - I have calmed down significantly! haha I'm still interested in him, but thinking about how I might be able to at least create opportunities to get to know him better has a calming affect! I suppose depending on well I knew the guy and the circumstance, if things were progressing, I might be able to pull off a "you know, it would be really great if you asked me to the homecoming dance" or something like that. That puts the ball in his court, but makes my intentions and feelings known without the "games".

Yeah, and I'm sure there is a Taylor Swift song about this...

I remember my Institute director (who is also a bishop, but in a single's ward), said that the Church will not tell someone they should get/consider a divorce. A bishop is not supposed to do that (according to my Institute director and teacher) as official "counsel". Does that mean that divorce is never the correct "answer"? No, but don't expect the recommendation to come from the bishop. That's not to say there may not be exceptions, but what you said the bishop said doesn't surprise me. I am not married, but I agree with what has been said about how you are teaching your children how a spouse is supposed to act. It is also true that he is doing harm to the family. The fact that you have tried to move forward and put it past you in the past and this is still happening I think is certainly a sign you should seriously consider a divorce. (Especially now that he has in essence stolen from you and your family - accessed and spent money he was not allowed to have.) Good luck... Oh and PS - you can forgive someone, but also do what you need to do to keep them from continuing hurting you and your family. Forgiving is different than staying married. You can forgive and get divorced. You can stay married and not forgive. They are two separate things.

Haha - yeah, I'm not planning a wedding...just looking! lol (I'm not even pricing anything! lol) And I'm not one of those girls who looks at that kind of thing. I have friends that have Pinterest boards who are "planning" their wedding before they even have a guy in mind! I just don't want to one of those "crazy ones" I always laugh about. haha Infatuation is a good word. I'm just kind of clueless to the dating scene. It has been nearly three years since I have been on a date, and yeah...

So...I am 26 years old. I have never had an official "boyfriend". I was "best friends" with a guy before his mission, and a number of people thought we would get married when he returned (including myself), but came back and wanted nothing to do with me. That is the closest thing I have had to boyfriend. I have never been kissed. I am a very rational person. I am not someone that lets my "heart" take over my head. I am in a singles ward right now at a university that has a lot of LDS people. I am finishing up my BA and then going to move to a school closer to home to try to get into the master's program there. Being older than the majority of the guys and looking at the overall selection, I have resigned, expected, and almost "decided" to wait to look for a relationship until I move to where I plan on finishing my education. I am not in love with the "idea" of being in love. I am not worried that I'm not married yet. This is all in Heavenly Father's hands, it is His plan for me, and He may always be the only one who is not worried I'm not married yet. It is His Gospel, His ordinances and His law I am trying to obey. I know that I will have an opportunity sometime in this life or the next, I will not be denied any blessings as long as I live worthy of them, so I am not worried. I got over that a few years ago. BUT - there is this guy who returned from his mission earlier this year. I know his family, as his family lives locally, and I do like them. I started to get to know him a *little bit* in Sunday School. He would sometimes be the only person to laugh at my jokes, and I have noticed him as being the kind of person I would like to date, but never considered myself to ever have a "chance" with him. BUT - yesterday, I started seriously falling for him. I have started looking at wedding dresses online, thinking about him, about what our wedding would be like, what temple would work best, etc. I don't know what has gotten into me! Never talking to him individually not in class, I went up and talked to him after church. I don't know what is happening to me! I am at a loss!!! I don't know what has happened to my brain. Last night I prayed for guidance to know if this is something serious or if this is my brain just going wild on me. I woke up and within an hour he was all I could think of. I am a firm believer in the man being the "man", and as it has been counseled by the brethren in the Ensign, in General Conference and by our Stake President, that he is the one who is supposed to do the "asking" on dates and whatnot. It is his job to court me. So....what is an appropriate way to "get his attention" without being too forward? What is the role a woman is to play in all of this? HELP!

And our own temple ordinances are just as important to our ancestors as they are to us...and vice versa.

Thanks everyone! I can't believe it's only 15 days away....CRAZY! I was in Institute the other day, and someone made a comment about their experience doing baptisms one day, and how he really wanted to have a spiritual experience. Well he did, but what it consisted of was "this isn't about you! it's about the people who you are being baptized for". That put my mind on the right track - this is the ONLY time I get to do this for ME, and the only ordinances that are "about us" are our own endowment and sealing. And really, my own endowment is the only temple ordinance that will be ONLY about me. I don't want to sound "full of myself" or anything, but it's so true - that day is ALL about me and Heavenly Father. That's not to say I will not receive personal benefit from going back and doing work for others (in fact, A LOT of benefit), but wow....this really is the only time it's going to ONLY be about me and the Lord. Huh....

Oh my gosh....all female workplaces are the worst! Like really, truly! haha Anyway, unless if the person you're reporting the lead tech to does not have any contact with her working with others, chances are she already has somewhat of a feel of what is going on in general and what the "feel" of the workplace is with her there. Now, don't assume that she knows all, and keeping record of major incidences is a good idea, but if the person you're reporting to does have workplace involvement like I said, this stuff will probably not come as much of a surprise. Good luck.........

It's all up to your priesthood leaders. You will also probably have to go before a disciplinary council in the stake after you go to your bishop for a final decision to be made. It really depends on the circumstances, and is up to them to decide. One of my best friend's brother was excommunicated for fornication (RM, endowed, etc) but his financee was just disfellowshipped because she hadn't been to the temple yet. But again - all up to the priesthood leaders.

Yeah, it's unlikely he would have success in a YSA ward. I'm 25, and realistically speaking, I'm one of the older ones. The age limit technically goes up to 30, but there aren't many of them. (In my experience) And as pointed out, being able to be sealed in the temple is a HUGE deal. Also in my experience, YSA wards tend to have young single Mormons that are active and faithful, looking for just that - a temple marriage. (Which, let's be honest - that is why they are attending a YSA ward.) He might be able to find a less active young woman who would be willing to marry him. OR - perhaps a widow (a younger one, not a 70 year old) who has already been sealed? I don't know. Point being, a YSA ward is probably not the best place to look because of 1) the age difference and 2) the goals of the members of those wards.

Yep! My bishop's wife is teaching it. My last class is next Sunday. :)

It's just "time" for me to go. I'm 25...no marriage prospects right now or a mission, but my bishop and I both feel very strongly now is the time for whatever reason. (not complaining...) :)

I'm so excited! So overwhelmed - it's a "good" overwhelmed, but overwhelmed all the same. I'll be going for my own endowments in 18 days. Feels soooo soon, and yet sooooo far away at the same time! So anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any words of advice for me about anything regarding the temple. As an FYI - I will be going to the DC temple, so there is a distribution center where I will be purchasing my garments that day, and they have clothing rental. I know it will be here before I know it, but it's just - ahhh!!!! So close, but yet so far away....lol