tesuji

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  1. Thanks
    tesuji got a reaction from Anddenex in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    A couple last things, just published this week by Ben Spackman on his blog.

    Interpreting Scripture, History, Science, and Creation: A Free Course by Me!
    A course syllabus
    https://benspackman.com/2020/05/04/interpreting-scripture-history-science-and-creation-a-free-course-by-me/

    Also, Ben Spackman explains how he teaches Genesis as a church Institute teacher:
    Teaching Genesis at Institute
    https://benspackman.com/2020/05/04/teaching-genesis-at-institute/

    This is all great stuff. I highly recommend them, if you feel that simplistic explanations are no longer enough.
  2. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    A couple last things, just published this week by Ben Spackman on his blog.

    Interpreting Scripture, History, Science, and Creation: A Free Course by Me!
    A course syllabus
    https://benspackman.com/2020/05/04/interpreting-scripture-history-science-and-creation-a-free-course-by-me/

    Also, Ben Spackman explains how he teaches Genesis as a church Institute teacher:
    Teaching Genesis at Institute
    https://benspackman.com/2020/05/04/teaching-genesis-at-institute/

    This is all great stuff. I highly recommend them, if you feel that simplistic explanations are no longer enough.
  3. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from MrShorty in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    Here's a great presentation at a recent FairMormon conference that I think makes the point even better than my original post:
    A Paradoxical Preservation of Faith: LDS Creation Accounts and the Composite Nature of Revelation
    https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2019/a-paradoxical-preservation-of-faith?fbclid=IwAR3ZdogxsEmsYGEJEdXLd_5yCVmHD1QgyJKjQQf7A4vhJMqi7t5xR70v1hM
  4. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Midwest LDS in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    Not at all.
    You have grossly misunderstood my intent and my motivation. 
    If you have not carefully read what I said, and also carefully read the two articles I posted, I encourage you to go back and do that.
  5. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from MrShorty in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    Not at all.
    You have grossly misunderstood my intent and my motivation. 
    If you have not carefully read what I said, and also carefully read the two articles I posted, I encourage you to go back and do that.
  6. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    Not at all.
    You have grossly misunderstood my intent and my motivation. 
    If you have not carefully read what I said, and also carefully read the two articles I posted, I encourage you to go back and do that.
  7. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from MrShorty in An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism   
    A significant new post by Ben Spackman, one of my favorite LDS scholars.
    It hurts to realize that some of our 20th century prophets were overly fundamentalist, and have given us simplistic or incomplete narratives.
    But I think it's important to understand. I feel that now in the 21st century, some people who leave the church are actually rejecting false or limited understandings that are really not part of our doctrine at all.
    Encultured Prophets and the Firmament of Genesis: Peter Enns Continued
    https://benspackman.com/2010/11/09/encultured-prophets-and-the-firmament-of-genesis-peter-enns-continued/

    More background:
    The 1950s: A Fundamentalist Shift
    https://benspackman.com/2020/01/07/the-1950s-a-fundamentalist-shift/
  8. Like
    tesuji reacted to anatess2 in It's hard to stay non-partisan in a heavily polarized environment   
    I think you need to differentiate between politics and partisan politics.  Politics is a highly appropriate and very important church discussion.  After all, the Book of Mormon stories especially that of King Benjamin is a lot about politics and so is most of the Bible.  The Church encourages its members to be actively involved in the decisions of governance, applying their gospel-centered morality (informing our ideology) into secular living - "be in the world but not OF the world".
    Partisan politics is where the Pharisees fell on - that is a completely different discussion than politics.  Trump vs. Biden is not an appropriate church discussion.  How to avoid War, how to conduct Trade, how to maximize Free Will without falling into anarchy... These are very important Church topics that inform how we choose to be governed.  And that's why we discuss things such as Mosiah 2 in Sunday School.
     
  9. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Colirio in It's hard to stay non-partisan in a heavily polarized environment   
    I have struggled mightily with the OP topic, in ways I'm not going to go into.
    Overall, I think politics and our LDS membership are bad combinations. It is highly inappropriate to discuss politics in church - you will certainly offend someone, and nothing will drive the Spirit away faster.
    I think we should realize that politics is a worldly thing. We should rise above the mere philosophies and ideologies of the world. We can think higher than that - our gospel has shown us the way. 
    There is good in most or all parties. Most people who follow a certain ideology or party do so because it focuses on things they think are the priorities. We all want basically the same end-goals - a safe, free, prosperous world. We just differ on how to get there.
    I'm certain that if people sat down, left their ideologies at the door, and practiced Steven Covey's principles (seek first to understand, etc.) - then most reasonable people could arrive at constructive compromises and pragmatic solutions to problems.
    Besides ideological us vs them thinking, I think the biggest problem now is that people are poorly informed about issues, or only hear one side of the arguments.
    Also, the media and many of our leaders are actively trying to divide us and encourage partisan fighting. Here is an excellent book about that: 
    Hate Inc.: Why Today's Media Makes Us Despise One Another, by Matt Taibbi. https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Inc-Todays-Despise-Another/dp/B0854P6WHH/.
    A fascinating interview with the author: 
    How The Press Makes Us Hate Each Other, https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/how-press-makes-us-hate-each-other
    As far as the media in general:
    Graph: How Biased is Your Favorite News Source? 
    https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/media-bias-chart
  10. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Traveler in Subtle Possession   
    Many years ago I found a book called something like "The Complete Idiots Guide to Zen Living." I learned a lot of useful things from that book.
    I decided that the core, simple teachings of Buddhism - such as mindfulness, letting go of negative feelings and attachments, accepting reality - would greatly benefit American culture if we adopted them. For example, imagine what the freeways would be if everyone adopted the attitude that we're all flowing together, and accepted that congestion happens, etc.
    Also, as LDS members, letting go and accepting reality are big steps toward being able to forgive and repent. And mindfulness - what better way to feel the Spirit and hear answer to our prayers that to be entirely living and listening in the present moment.
  11. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from JohnsonJones in It's hard to stay non-partisan in a heavily polarized environment   
    I have struggled mightily with the OP topic, in ways I'm not going to go into.
    Overall, I think politics and our LDS membership are bad combinations. It is highly inappropriate to discuss politics in church - you will certainly offend someone, and nothing will drive the Spirit away faster.
    I think we should realize that politics is a worldly thing. We should rise above the mere philosophies and ideologies of the world. We can think higher than that - our gospel has shown us the way. 
    There is good in most or all parties. Most people who follow a certain ideology or party do so because it focuses on things they think are the priorities. We all want basically the same end-goals - a safe, free, prosperous world. We just differ on how to get there.
    I'm certain that if people sat down, left their ideologies at the door, and practiced Steven Covey's principles (seek first to understand, etc.) - then most reasonable people could arrive at constructive compromises and pragmatic solutions to problems.
    Besides ideological us vs them thinking, I think the biggest problem now is that people are poorly informed about issues, or only hear one side of the arguments.
    Also, the media and many of our leaders are actively trying to divide us and encourage partisan fighting. Here is an excellent book about that: 
    Hate Inc.: Why Today's Media Makes Us Despise One Another, by Matt Taibbi. https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Inc-Todays-Despise-Another/dp/B0854P6WHH/.
    A fascinating interview with the author: 
    How The Press Makes Us Hate Each Other, https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/how-press-makes-us-hate-each-other
    As far as the media in general:
    Graph: How Biased is Your Favorite News Source? 
    https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/media-bias-chart
  12. Like
    tesuji reacted to Traveler in Subtle Possession   
    Some "spiritual" thoughts.  Years ago I befriended a lay Buddhist monk through my work.  Many classify Buddhism as a religion - some forms definitely are, other forms are not so much.  I had studied Buddhism theology but I decided to explore in depth the Buddhist art of meditation.  The point of meditation to a Buddhist is to become "aware" - especially of subtle influences that surround us.  The more I explored this concept of meditation the more I realized that all the principles that we are taught about meditation within our own faith have application.  I also discovered that I did not need to sit alone in a vacant room repeating a mantra to meditate on an idea or principle but I did need to learn to filter noise including filtering the kind of noise that exceeds just sounds.  I am leaving a lot out but I believe it possible to grow spiritually through meditation and find meditation to be a tool in understanding scripture (among other things).
    With the understanding that meditation is becoming aware - I began to meditate with the effort to learn what I could about the origins of my thoughts.  I have believed that I am quite good at coming up with ideas (especially at work) and therefore I am smarter than most.  However, because of attempting to become aware of my own thoughts I have become convinced that there are thoughts that come to me (and I assume to everybody else as well) that are not generated internally to who and what I am but externally.  In short I believe many of "my" thoughts are not really my thoughts but come from somewhere outside of who and what I am.  I wonder if any thoughts are uniquely my own?
    I believe that temptations are initiated as thoughts.  As we entertain thoughts we convince ourselves to act on our thoughts.  I have come to believe that while in our fallen mortal state that we are mostly like a radio listening device to thoughts that are being "broadcast".  Mostly we become connected to what we listen for - that, in essence, there are only two types of broadcasting's taking place.  One source is of light and truth and the other is the opposite and is darkness and deceptions of truth.   (note that I used deceptions of truth rather than the term, a lie).
    In short I believe everything is directly related to influences of some spirit of light or a spirit of darkness - Everything!  I do not believe that there are any gray spirits.  Our only choices in this life is to listen to either a spirit of light or a spirit of darkness or some imbalance of both.  Now, I will testify - that once someone is armed with such understanding - that they will know within them exactly which thoughts are thoughts of light and truth and which thoughts are of darkness, deception and misunderstanding.  And as Jesus said, "As a man thinks so is he".  We become the thoughts we choose.
     
    The Traveler
  13. Like
    tesuji reacted to Carborendum in Subtle Possession   
    I believe I had once talked about my BIL who had some sickness akin to Job's ailments.  Doctors could find no sign of any type of pathogen that would account for this.  There was no bodily function that was amiss (like auto-immune disorder).
    But this happened shortly after he moved his household to another state.  He just revealed that he moved because he couldn't stand being around our (extended) family because we were all so "churchy".  Now he has taken to cussing out my wife because I sent out a list of scriptures to the family via email. 
    The two of them have always been very close.  He always had a special place in his heart for my wife.  But here he was cussing her out because of scriptures.  It was accompanied by an angry tirade against the Church and their $100B then calling for a worldwide fast about Corona.  He called the Church a cult and is doing all he can to bring us out of it.
    He said many more things which I won't repeat here.  But as I listened, it occurred to me that he actually is possessed.  I remember @Jojo Bags used to talk about that all the time.  I never believed it was as pervasive and common as he talked about.  But I always believed it happened to some degree or other.
    Not only has he done a complete reversal on so many things, but the drastic actions he's taken over the past 5 or 6 years are very disturbing.  His attitudes have change.  He's a completely different person.  He's so easily prone to anger and outbursts.  And then this plague he seems to have without any explanation...  That chil' ain't right.
    We had actually fasted for his healing a couple of times.  The Spirit told me that it would not work.  I believe now that it was because there would have been faith to bring about the requested healing, if not for one thing.  He, himself, was resisting the blessing.  He did not want it.  He wanted to prove we were doing a useless act.  He actually wants to keep the evil spirit within him.
    My wife made a comment about how spirits have been trained.  In Christ's time, we saw clear evidence of insanity like "Legion".  But these evil spirits have had several thousand year to practice hiding in plain sight.  Today, we may have many signs of possession without us even thinking it is supernatural at all.  Why bother possessing someone to get put in a hospital, when they could simply get people to do "normal" things, but just abandon good works.
    I know the reasons people leave the Church are (ahem) "Legion".  So, I am NOT saying that everyone (nor even most <-- disclaimer here) who leaves the Church is possessed.  But there are times when it seems that it must be something quite different.  And when I heard all the details about the recent changes to my BIL, and all the things I've known throughout the years, it hit me like a freight train.  He is possessed.
    I maintain my position from long ago, that members of the Church tend not to ostracize those who leave the Church.  They tend to ostracize themselves from us.  Yes, yes, there are some who are ostracized.  You're always going to have some small number of people who just don't get it.  But most of the time, I see them ostracizing themselves from us.  I wonder if these cases are because the evil spirits can't stand to be around us.
    Possession is not always a foreign spirit simply stepping in and taking over the physiological control over a body. It starts with simply "influencing".  Poking and prodding.  Just as the Lord "guides" us, evil spirits will also guide us -- just down a different path.  Just as we can learn to follow the Lord's voice, and eventually become one with him, the same path is available with evil spirits.  But one path is what we hope for.  The other is one we're *usually* (usually, as in most often, not always, some exceptions, exclusions, special circumstances...I hate having to put so many disclaimers in, even though there are going to be some people who ignore them anyway, so why do I bother?) unaware of the path we're going down.
  14. Like
    tesuji reacted to Vort in Subtle Possession   
    Interesting idea. I've often wondered about this very thing.
  15. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Why would one choose BYU over Harvard ?   
    I went to BYU many years ago. Growing up in "the mission field," it was the only place I wanted to go. I spend high school seeing a lot things that I didn't want to see anymore - I wanted a place where people were trying to live by gospel standards.
    Overall, I loved BYU. I did get annoyed by the end with some of the superficial restrictions in the honor code (no beards?). But like anything if you focus on irritations and annoyances, they grow larger; whereas if you focus on all your blessings and the wonderful things around you, you will be happier and more grateful.
    I got an excellent education at BYU, met countless wonderful people, had innumerable great experiences that I would never have had at a secular university. I'm sure if I had gone to somewhere else it could have been great in other ways. But looking back, I would make the same choice again without hesitation.
  16. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Vort in Why would one choose BYU over Harvard ?   
    I went to BYU many years ago. Growing up in "the mission field," it was the only place I wanted to go. I spend high school seeing a lot things that I didn't want to see anymore - I wanted a place where people were trying to live by gospel standards.
    Overall, I loved BYU. I did get annoyed by the end with some of the superficial restrictions in the honor code (no beards?). But like anything if you focus on irritations and annoyances, they grow larger; whereas if you focus on all your blessings and the wonderful things around you, you will be happier and more grateful.
    I got an excellent education at BYU, met countless wonderful people, had innumerable great experiences that I would never have had at a secular university. I'm sure if I had gone to somewhere else it could have been great in other ways. But looking back, I would make the same choice again without hesitation.
  17. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Mosiah 4:7   
    I agree with everything you have said.
    However, I don't know if we have the luxury of continuing with the simple narratives we learned in the past. It's true that digging deeper feels like opening a can of worms. But we have the counsel from the scriptures to seek out learning, not to be ignorant. And I think the can of worms has already been opened by the internet. Our youth and other members are hearing and learning things that need to be addressed. Elder Ballard has spoken about that.
    The Opportunities and Responsibilities of CES Teachers in the 21st Century, Elder M. Russell Ballard
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/article/evening-with-a-general-authority/2016/02/the-opportunities-and-responsibilities-of-ces-teachers-in-the-21st-century?lang=eng
    My problem has been that, as a lifetime member who went to seminary, had religion classes at BYU, has read the scriptures many times, etc. - I find that what I feel that I need more than anything now is questions. I know the basics, all the Sunday School answers. But there is so much more to learn, and I'm getting bored with hearing the same lessons at church all the time.
    As I have learned more about Biblical studies it has felt like leaving the lazy river and immediately heading down the category 5 rapids. I don't know why learning has to feel so perilous. Or, another metaphor - it's like taking the red pill, if you've seen The Matrix. If I was looking for reasons to get upset and leave the church because of being taught what feels like a naive and simplistic narrative in the past, I could easily do that. But like Abraham, I am a person who desires to have knowledge, and I'm very grateful for what I've been learning.
    I agree that what matters most is loving God and loving your neighbor. That's what this life is about. But we also have that doctrine that no one can be saved in ignorance - we're all going to need to learn a lot more, eventually.
     
     
     
     
  18. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from JohnsonJones in The timing of truth   
    I think polygamy is an interesting topic in many respects.
    Brian and Laura Hales have recently published an excellent, in-depth study of the history and doctrine surrounding this topic:
    Joseph Smith's Polygamy: Toward a Better Understanding
    https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smiths-Polygamy-Toward-Understanding/dp/1589587235
    If you want a lot more detail, they have an additional 3-volume series as well.
    Addressing the OP, if I remember correctly, the Hales' books would indicate the following:
    The popular idea that polygamy is a higher law that we all would ideally be following is not necessarily doctrine. Joseph Smith did indeed resist the commandment to him and obey it with great reluctance. This was partly because of his concern about how Emma would react. (His worries were confirmed  ) Joseph Smith submitted to polygamy out of obedience. Polygamy was very difficult to live. (It was not some sort of sex party, as some people with more lurid imaginations have assumed.) We don't know all the reasons for why polygamy was instituted in the church (although the Hales' books do examine these questions in depth). My personal take-away from reading these books is that polygamy was given by the Lord to early modern church leaders as a lesson and challenge in obedience. (Only a minority of LDS practiced polygamy in the 1800s.) We don't know all the why's about it. The Lord's mind and ways are not our own. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are my ways higher than your ways, And my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:9).
    Brigham Young did supposedly make a lot of statements saying polygamy was a higher law. However, I always chuckle at this quote supposedly from him:
    "The introduction of the doctrine of polygamy was the first time in my life that I desired the grave, and I could hardly get over it for a long time. And when I saw a funeral, I felt to envy the corpse its situation." -- Brigham Young
     
    Of course the go-to place to begin to understand this is the church's official Gospel Topics Essay:
    Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng
     
     
  19. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Mosiah 4:7   
    "Adam" in the Hebrew is not necessarily a proper name of a person. The Hebrew word means "a human" or "mankind."
    I was reading about this recently, and I find it fascinating. A recent translation of the Hebrew Bible by the Jewish scholar Robert Alter renders Genesis 1:26 like this:
    "Let us make a human, in our image, by our likeness...."
    Alter's footnote about this says the Hebrew "adam" here means "a human," and it discusses the original Hebrew text thus:
    "The term 'adam, afterward consistently with the definite article [the, as in 'the adam'] which is used both here and in the second account [Genesis chapter 2] of the origins of mankind, is a generic term for human beings, not a proper noun. It also does not automatically suggest maleness, especially not without the prefix ben, "son of," and so the traditional rendering "man" is misleading, and an exclusively male 'adam would make nonsense of the last clause of verse 27."
    Alter translates Genesis 1:27 like this, formatting it as poetry:
    "And God created the human in his image,
    in the image of God He created him,
    male and female He created them."
    Modern prophets have indicated that Adam was a real person, and that the story of Adam and Eve has great spiritual value. But I think we have to be careful assuming Genesis is a literal historical account, the way we would understand modern history. It is the creation story of the ancient Hebrews, passed down from unknown authors and times, and codified around 300 BC when the Hebrew Bible as we have it was put together, if I remember correctly what I've read from Bible scholars.
     
  20. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Vort in The timing of truth   
    I think polygamy is an interesting topic in many respects.
    Brian and Laura Hales have recently published an excellent, in-depth study of the history and doctrine surrounding this topic:
    Joseph Smith's Polygamy: Toward a Better Understanding
    https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smiths-Polygamy-Toward-Understanding/dp/1589587235
    If you want a lot more detail, they have an additional 3-volume series as well.
    Addressing the OP, if I remember correctly, the Hales' books would indicate the following:
    The popular idea that polygamy is a higher law that we all would ideally be following is not necessarily doctrine. Joseph Smith did indeed resist the commandment to him and obey it with great reluctance. This was partly because of his concern about how Emma would react. (His worries were confirmed  ) Joseph Smith submitted to polygamy out of obedience. Polygamy was very difficult to live. (It was not some sort of sex party, as some people with more lurid imaginations have assumed.) We don't know all the reasons for why polygamy was instituted in the church (although the Hales' books do examine these questions in depth). My personal take-away from reading these books is that polygamy was given by the Lord to early modern church leaders as a lesson and challenge in obedience. (Only a minority of LDS practiced polygamy in the 1800s.) We don't know all the why's about it. The Lord's mind and ways are not our own. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are my ways higher than your ways, And my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:9).
    Brigham Young did supposedly make a lot of statements saying polygamy was a higher law. However, I always chuckle at this quote supposedly from him:
    "The introduction of the doctrine of polygamy was the first time in my life that I desired the grave, and I could hardly get over it for a long time. And when I saw a funeral, I felt to envy the corpse its situation." -- Brigham Young
     
    Of course the go-to place to begin to understand this is the church's official Gospel Topics Essay:
    Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng
     
     
  21. Like
    tesuji reacted to DontaeBynes in Should i join the Church? Or even consider it?   
    I’m in a weird spot in my religious life. I actually grew up catholic and went to a catholic school when I was younger.
  22. Like
    tesuji reacted to Amberlee in Living with LDS boyfriend, wanting to become member.   
    My boyfriend grew up in the church but was never baptized. I grew up in a very sinful Antichristian household. I moved in with him and his family due to issue at home. Now we go to church on Sunday and I really enjoy it and feel the Holy Spirit there and want to become a member. My boyfriend says he’ll get baptized with me but we can’t be baptized until after we get married. I’m working on myself and becoming more Christ like (reprogramming myself from my childhood). Would it still be good for us to do lessons with the missionaries and go to Sunday school even though we won’t be able to be baptized member of the church for quite a while before we can get married.
  23. Like
    tesuji reacted to Vort in The Book of Mormon made understandable   
    Some years ago, I wrote a short synopsis of the Book of Mormon for @Sunday21. To my surprise and satisfaction, several people found it useful. I have since thought it might be a useful jumping-off point for others such as my youngest, who will soon be 14 and might appreciate a 10,000-foot view of things. So I copied it out, put it in a Google doc, and edited it some. It is nothing like official, of course, and contains some of my own interpretations, doubtless along with some errors. But for whatever it's worth to anyone, here's a link.
    The Book of Mormon made understandable (overview)
  24. Okay
    tesuji got a reaction from DennisTate in A Jewish journalist tours the Oakland Temple open house   
    Interesting article
    A journey into the Holy of Holies — in a Latter-day Saints temple
    https://www.jweekly.com/2019/05/14/a-journey-into-the-holy-of-holies-in-a-latter-day-saints-temple/
  25. Like
    tesuji got a reaction from Lillyann Launiu in How can I forget the ugly things I see on Internet by accident?   
    Don't blame yourself if it was an accident. No need to feel guilty in that case.
    When the image comes up, let go of it and focus on something else instead. If you keep doing that it will fade out over time.