BadWolf

Skin

^^^^^ This. Big time. It wasnt the acts themselves... It was how you still felt about them. Take the year. Regain your confidence. Get to know how rock strong forgiveness & 2nd chances can really make you. Im a convert. And lets just say my interview had to get kicked upstairs a few levels You know what sealed not only my baptism, but my very active involvement in the church following? 3 people. "My" 2 missionaries... One of whom had a misspent youth (as I did), one who'd been to war (as I have), and a sister in my ward (in the RSP) who had gone through a year of counseling with her leaders for having some serious sexual transgressions in college. I know about their pasts... Because they had learned from them & were totally at peace with them. So when a pretty typical investigator with a laundry list of "I'll never fit in / trust me, church is not the place for me wild years ... They can just laugh and share their own stories. You have a choice. You can be ashamed of your past. You can repeat your past. You can learn from your past, and be made stronger by it. The choice is yours. ______________________ " It's empty in the valley of your heart The sun, it rises slowly as you walk Away from all the fears And all the faults you've left behind And I'll find strength in pain And I will change my ways I'll know my name as it's called again" - Mumford & Sons

Oh my stars. 80s splatter paint & pants that must be worn with other pants were in fierce competition... ... Right up until Mikbone lobbed the Presbyopia Grenade. My brain actually hurts looking at some of those. Its like Julie Andrews went to a hospital for the criminally insane & stole their drapes!

THINK before you speak. Is it: True Honest Inspired Necessary Kind

:)Its honestly the 'versus' which concerns me the most. Religion v Science... We lost hundreds, if not thousands, of years & untold lives & innovation due to this opposition. True still today. While many of the great scientists I have known are deeply religious, there's STILL this grinding. We lose great scientific minds who don't go into science because of this supposed contention, and we lose great moral hearts and foundations who feel they have to leave religion to be people of science. Religion versus Equality... I fear... Both has & will continue to have similar affect. I just wish (in my happy utopian fantasy between my ears) that religion would stay out of politics. And, conversely, that Politics (government) would stay out of religion. Although I do admire the Vatican's Intelligence Service (arguably the best in the world). Sigh. So even my utopian make believe world has hypocrisy in it. I can see why they don't myob... I simply wish they would. I cannot think of a single time when mixing religion & politics had led to good, instead of evil, when a church (or mosque, etc.) has succeeded in forcing its doctrine upon the populace at large instead of remaining self selecting.

Im on the other side of this argument. While I may agree completely that whether its Elvis or Furries, pelvic thrusts are questionable dance moves... That a school would deny children's right to an education for being bad dancers is flat out wrong. ESPECIALLY if said school has cheerleaders, a dance team, allows filming of any kind on campus, etc. This isn't about how tasteful their dancing was... Its about children being suspended for dancing & filming it. Bullying others? Sure. Bad dancing? Heck no.

You know... That phrase had always rubbed my fur the wrong way... BUT in thinking about it inside out: A queen (or king) IS NOT A - Servant - Slave - Nanny - Cook - Prostitute - Secretary - PA - Personal chef - Punching Bag - Dime a dozen - Your employee (or anyone you "oversee") - Paycheck (the power of the purse lies elsewhere) - etc. A queen (or king) SHALL NOT BE - Disrespected - Lied to - Trifled with - Taken for granted - Put needlessly in harms way - Ignored - Dismissed - Spoken poorly of - Betrayed - Easily replaced - etc. All parallels break down eventually... But I have to admit, the phrase is growing on me.

< laughing > Yes. Gradschool + Fulltime work + baby = exceptionally different than Undergrad + baby OR Full time work + baby ((Or heck, even undergrad + Fulltime work + baby)) I was talking about STARTING school (or at least being an undergrad, instead of returning to work. Not working Fulltime (or even part time), much less adding working on one's masters or doctorate. A huge number of women ARE completely dependent on their husbands because they have NO education. Believing that they cannot even start until the kids are either grown, or the youngest in school full time. So the best they can manage are min wage jobs, that they can't start until their youngest is in school full time (daycare costs more than they'd make). So their lives are "on hold" for a solid 5-15 years "for" their families. Which, I was given to understand was your major fear in your daughter going on mission? That she'd get married / have children / not go to school / be entirely dependent on her husband. Whose income potential, of course, would be continuing to rise for those 5-15 years, while hers stayed stagnant & static. I may not be able to give you HappyMissionStory (I hope lots do, though! i love listening to them in Relief Society) to help allay your fears, but as far as getting ones education vs working (done both) with wee ones... I can say hands down that 1) being in school with small children is infinitely easier than working full time with small children. 2) Your fear of her being unable to go to school while raising a family is only one choice. She may make that choice, and it may be the most commonly held choice, but its far from her only option. She could do as I did, or even as you did (I can't wrap my head around your choice, easily, though. I had 10 hours a week JUST being an undergrad. You had probably double that PLUS working full time.). Or she could do one of several other things (including the common - 20s= school & gradschool & casual dating, - 30s = career & serious dating, - 40's = marriage & starting family. Which is what most of my peers outside the church do. Back in Seattle, I have a good friend in Hosp Admin. At least in that city roughly 2/3s of first time moms are in their 40s. Which follows the same trending I see in professional women. Although I don't know if that's micro/macro/cohort/etc.). Of course, being in school with small children is harder than being in school single & childless, just not as hard as working full time with small children! If I misunderstand your fear... Not that she'd not go to school (which I had hoped to help allay), but that she'd have to work as hard as you did, I apologize.

Just to address one of your fears... I was not LDS. I joined the military out of highschool. I got married /had my son at 22 I started college when my son was 2 months old. I REALLY wish people thought babies & school weren't mutually exclusive. It does a great disservice to so many!!! Full time work w baby = 50+ hours of childcare per week Vs. College w baby = - 10+ hours of childcare per week - Childcare subsidies by the university - Student Family Housing - Flexible schedule (can email professor & stay home to deal with not just illness, but tantrums, special events, etc.) - Flexible schedule (most work done at home, and can be done during naps & after bedtime) - Great community (not only are there Married Family Student groups THROUGH the church, but also your fellow secular students -that you share housing with-, your professors with young families oft include undergrad parents with their grad student functions = amaaaaazing networking, etc.) - et cetera. And there are a LOT of perks & bonuses in this et cetera list. Being a Full time student when my son was little was the BEST of "both worlds". I got to be a full time stay at home mom, while also working (keeping my mind active & engaged, bringing in over 25k in aid, not counting childcare & housing subsidies, nor 2k per month saved in not needing 50 hours of childcare per week). All while advancing my income potential & degree path. Best of both worlds. If Id known what an amaaaaazing fit raising a young family while being in college is, I would have planned to do it that way, instead of just lucking into it. _____ To be clear, Im not saying that if your daughter goes on Mission, she'll be married & have a baby before getting her degrees. LOL, I wasn't even a member when I did! What I am saying is that baby + college not only are not mutually exclusive... I don't think there's a better job out there for new parents. I realize not everyone can be lucky enough to have the timing work out so that they're starting their families while in school, though.

That's a hard place to be in. But, at least in my experience, a good one. For when we stop taking other people's word as gospel, we find our own truths. Its that perpetual act of growing up. Whether as a person, no longer taking out parents word, but needing to experience for ourselves... As a scholar, no longer taking an author at face value but conducting our own critical reasoning & research... As an employee, shifting from learning the job to knowing the job... Or in matters of religion, needing to form pur own relationship with God...Its a hard transition. Its comfortable, bèing able to rely on others who know best. But, hopefully, a good one... As we becomes the ones who know best, ourselves. All my best, BW

I think keeping the Sabbath Holy means different things to different people. Long before I converted, the LDS family across the street had a daughter I competed with. On Sundays, if there was a meet or an event, her WHOLE family came to it (not small) & cheered her on. Their attitude was "We spend Sundays as a family." Sometimes, if we were competing out of town, her dad & brothers would hold a sacrement up in their hotel room. Other times, we'd head straight from practice to (what Ive later come to learn) FHE. I loooooved Mondays at her house. We made it right in time for Sundaes & boardgames. Sometimes we'd be eating dinner with one hand, dessert with the other, and moving our game piece with our elbows. I don't know if their family paradigm is what's "normal" in the church, or if yours is... But Im personally using theirs with my own family: Bring God along, not be missing out because of God. I could be wrong in what Im doing. But I wouldn't trade having dawn prayers over the snowfields with my son in the mountains this winter, for anything. Not the boyscout camping trips. Nor so many other things that happen on Sundays. Be ause for ME, what makes Sundays holy isn't being inside 4 walls. Its being with my family, and sacrement or not (I envy my friends who have the priesthood in their families, who can perform ordinances wherever they may be), deliberately bringing God along with us.

MoE.... This might just be one of my favorite things of all time. Fair warning; Im officially co-opting it. As it takes my (50 words where 1 would suffice) explanation & shortens it to "Don't have to surprise God". B)

Points

If I'd only seen this I wouldn't have been caught flat footed with the "wear pants to church day"... When Id been wearing pants for a year. Drats! Foiled again. Great video! ETA.... Aaaaaaaaand that's another date-check-fail on my part. I need to start keeping a tally somewhere. (Im still not sure if this morning was 1-5 or 5-1. You know what they say: If life gives you melons, you're probably dyslexic. Still a great video!

I know I won't "win" with these suckers... But boy oh boy do I have some ugly pants on. They "pooch" / "tent" in the front. They sag in the rear The waist keeps slipping down (too big) until the waist is too small (for me hips) creating a muffin top. < rolls eyes > When "too big" looks too small. Ugh. They stretch in awkward ways (ballooning over the skinny part of my legs, but not stretching over areas that could use a little, ahem, stretch). I couldn't remember why I never wear these capris. They fit FINE this morning. An hour later at work.... Hullo Dowdy. Ick. I remember, I remember! What I don't remember is why I haven't sent them to the bin. I feel so pretty! ___________ Ugly Pants Contest. You must own them. Or have owned them. Or heck, even borrowed the natural disaster you then cloaked yourself with. And have worn them. Or seen them worn (My mum's gold stretch velvet pants from the 70s are always high placers in this contest, but often lose out to checks, or zebra print Hammer Pants). Bonus points if said monstrocitirs were then at some point used in a school drama production. That's it. 2 rules we shan't really adhere to anyway. Who has entries? BW

Most pop stars are millions in debt. All the money the studio "gives" them is a LOAN. Its fronted in order to find the album/tours, but the artist is responsible to pay it all back within a certain timeframe. If they don't sell, then they owe. If they don't sell ENOUGH, then they owe. Most pop stars oy ever see the money from merchandise sales (if you want to actually support the band, buy a teeshirt, not the music). Basic demographics... In order to sell enough to pay back their fronts, pop stars need the teen/20s demographic. Which they lose while they're teens themselves, most of the time. A lot of studios will actually "multi front" (take losses to a degree) during teen years, to get a popstar to 18 so they can start making serious money. But one is still left hundreds of thousands to millions in debt. And when you're that deep in debt, they own you. And your family. Even then, while there are millions at play, its a reeeeeeal gamble for the artist. A lot of Big Names (who spent 20 years famous & broke) are pushing the Internet music genre in favor of the artist. Its still iffy as to whether or not it will have any effect. In the meantime, artists still sign with studios. And when you've signed with them, you play by their rules. Which are more heavily in the studio's favor than the Casinos.

Off the top of my head: Econ / CompSci Double Major = Job in management. Granted, a lot of upper management is clueless what the programmers/DBAs/etc. are doing... But a lot more (these days) are code monkeys who, instead of furthering their tech skills, work for different areas in the company. Or heck... Work for State (there's an Econ path with them). The StateDept has a lot of tech avenues to explore. My ex did the 'work in tech while in school' thing. Only made 40k while being an undergrad, made 80k (same job) the day he graduated. Now makes 250k. His degree is NOT CompSci (nothing computer related, actually). Granted, he picked up certifications (SQL, C++, etc.) as he went. Which is another thing... CompSci is ALMOST like saying you want to be a Science major. There are a gazillion & 1 specialties. One way to "see if you'd like it" is to take some certification classes. But you'd kinda need to know which field you're looking at.

Teach over privileged youth & scholarship in the poor kids. Helps them out double... As it gets them around kids who are good "networks". (Involved parents, college isn't an option/ which school is the option, etc.). Homeschooling is explosive in its growth, lately, so most private teachers (setting up classes through community centers) are making waaaaay better money than their public school & private school counterparts.

ETA... I should add... There are times when there's NO money (job loss, divorce, etc.). The kids are uniformly AWESOME about all allowances (mine, too!) going on hold, and figuring out how to get by/stretch a dollar to make $10. Schtuff happens. Which is also a good lesson.

I do allowance&chores a little differently around here: 1) The underlying principle is twofold: - To create a systematic pattern of behavior / aka balance (vital in an ADHD household) - to teach real money management 2) The end goal is that by 14.5 the kids are responsible for ALL financial matters pertaining to them, so that they have a couple years of "working with a net" before going off to school/military/work/what have you never having learned to manage their money AND also be adept at all areas of household management (from daily cooking/cleaning, to repairs, calling in pros, etc. 3) Looking at the end goal I start when kids are toddlers in having them help with EVERYTHING (if an 18mo old can help cook/clean, then so can everyone else!), and then I start adding in (serious) money at about age 4 (or whenever their math skills & sequential reasoning kick in. I increase both allowance & responsibility every year on their half birthday. ((This doesn't actually mean any increase in my budget, as Id be spending the money on them in any event.)) I start with a base level (for accomplishing all the tasks), and then have a bonus for accomplishing the tasks with good attitude. END EX) 14.5yo Base = $200 per week Bonus = $50 per week Responsibilities - Tithing - Portion of rent/utilities (around here that $500 a month w/roommate, so we echo that, and then I **SECRETLY!!!!** Stash half that in a savings acct for them) - Portion of grocery bill - All educational costs - All sport & extra curricular costs - All clothing - All entertainment - All personal expenses (from haircuts to subscriptions) An in between look at my 10yo & 5yo: Ex) 10yo base allowance = $50 per week. Bonus of $10. $ Responsibility = - Tithing - Cell phone bill - 1 meal per week (he plans, shops/pays, & cooks... Last week was chicken Marsala) - Sports fees (but not uniforms, gear. Thats next year) - Birthday & Christmas gifts - Xbox live membership - Any subscriptions he wants to buy - Books & music Ex) 5yo Base = $7 per week Bonus = $3 per week Responsibility = Tithing & $10 per month cell phone bill (just the line) Chore lists are relatively unchanged from 5yo. Its just that I might help a 5yo, a 10yo might help me (or do it on their own). Daily = - Up - Hygiene & dress - breakfast & dishes (his) - make bed & clean room (2 "things" left out.... Be they Lego creations or laundry) - school - play - help w dinner (cooking & cleanup) - toilet (bowl & floor) WEEKLY - Field Day - Wash & put away his clothes - Wash sheets & remake bed - Help w/ projects - Pick a Chore x3 (floor washing, lawn, whatever) _____________________ Apx... 1000... 800+ poof to responsibilities 300... 200+ poof to responsibilities 50... 15 poof to responsibilities It'll make their first paycheck a great deal less exciting. Which is exactly the point.

One of my uncles & a good friend both suffered "frontal brain slosh" (from falls: my uncle while mountain climbing, my friend roofing) in the TBI sphere. My uncle made a complete recovery (after YEARS of retraining his brain), my good friend dropped out of therapy & conditioning after less than a year. We finally had to report him to CPS (child protective services) because his brain injury was causing him to do horrific things to his family. His wife had managed to hang on as the voice of reason for about 6 months. Then she started participating. (Which is pretty classic defense mechanism when someone you love is behaving abominably. The "bar" keeps getting moved. For my once dear friend... - He mixed up objects (as he walked would cradle the duffle bag lovingly, but be swinging the baby... Fortunately the baby only had a dislocated leg, he could have killed her). - Once an authoritative parent, his idea of discipline be ame nothing short of full on abuse. He would hold his toddler to the ceiling, screwing at her, until she'd pee her pants. My uncle was much the same, in the beginning, but he both had 5x of therapy for several hours every week, and had total trust in my aunt. He also kept his sense of humor "Id be the last to know! So if you say icecream for breakfast, kids, then its icecream for breakfast!" With a big wink towards our parents (these were things he DIDN'T get right for a long time. He had to run all of his ideas past someone (should I mow the pool to get rid of the pond scum? Habenero sauce for fries for the kids? Drinks are kept under the sink? Is this gentle? Do we cut out food with scissors? Do we use Brillo pads to bathe the kids? 1000, 10,000 things we just take for granted he had to entirely relearn. Its been 20 years and he still occasionally checks before doing things. Safe sounds dangerous in his head, and dangerous sounds safe). My friend, otoh, went deep into paranoia & resentment. I don't know if their divergent paths (trust v paranoia) were injury based or not. I do know that the strongest indicator of recovery (from classes in school) is an intensive retraining/rewiring of the brain during thousands of hours of neurological therapy... And that most people find it "kill me now" boring, insulting, frustrating. What are your spouse's challenges?

See... This is kinda my point... "I don't like you" / "Im mad at you" is often taken as the sole reason for refusing sex. Yet, quite the opposite of being rare: - Sleep Dep - Depression - Antidespressants (the wrong ones, there are antidepressants that don't affect libido) - Hormonal imbalances Are COMMON. And do, untreated, often last for years on end. The #1 cause "Im tired" sounds like "You bore me / I don't like you"... But the physiological changes that happen during sleep deprivation actually shut OFF sex drive (just like dieting can shut off women's fertility (periods grow irregular & then stop). Its EXCEPTIONALLY COMMON with young families. SAHP not sleeping due to round the clock care, Working Parent working crazy long hours to make up for a low salary (the being young part). Pregnancy really grinds women's bodies up, so while low testosterone or thyroid or pineal gland imbalances are sorta rare with men (still more common than you might think), hang around any group of moms & if someone is talking about RIP Sex Drive, you can almost set your watch by the "Have you had your thyroid checked?" launching out almost in choreograph. ((Actually, that drives me a little nuts, because its only thyroid related about 1/3 of the time. The rest of the time its hormone related, its different hormones, but that's me). Depression hits men & women of any age, parents or not. I could go on... But you're smart... & can extrapolate the rest. It just does a great disservice to most people for the assumption to be made, prior to investigation, that while there are hundreds of root causes, that its the ONE unfixable one. Easy to FEEL "I don't like you, you're gross" when getting turned down, though!

Adding...Beyond Adultery, AND Addiction, Abuse Still, though, what are their spouse's reasons behind refusing sex? - If they just DONT like/respect the OP, then, yah sure you betcha. - If they just DONT like/respect the OP because of wrongs they're waiting to see righted? (Not gonna have sex with you till you get a clean HIV test/haven't slept with anyone else or shared needles in at least 6mo... Or not until you quit drinking and swearing at me... Or not until you start treating me with respect. - If they love the OP? Have kept all covenants? But are suffering from a medical condition? IMHO... Divorcing a loving spouse because they won't put out, is low. Expecting sex when you're being a tool is even lower. Again... No idea why the OPs spouse is refusing sex. But I find that to be a pretty key part. ESPECIALLY if its been months or years & they don't know why. I have this stupid high octane libido, so I sympathize, but I wouldn't say no-sex is a reason for justifiable divorce without knowing the cause. Because most of the time no-sex has a super treatable cause.

In all my years, I have never heard of a person refusing sex on a regular (or even frequent) basis, much less flat out, without cause. The 4 most common causes are - Sleep Dep - Hormonal imbalance - Depression - Antidepressants All 4 treatable. There are a variety of other causes... That basically get lumped into 1 of 2* categories: - Physiological - Psychological * Theres a maxim in Neurology that if its physiological its psychological & if its psychological its physiological... Because the brain is both & when its affected by one, it affects the other. Which I only bring up because, not knowing your spouse, it MAY be relavent. Ex) Cancer treatment is a physiological cause for loss of libido, but the shame of appearance post treatment is psychological. There are whole year long classes to help cancer survivors rediscover their sexuality (a girlfriend of mine teaches one) that deals not just with the physical challenges (a lot of people have limited mobility or nerve damage), but also the psychological difficulties. Those are why the class is a year long. As it often takes 6-12 months to retrain your brain. The rest can be taught in a single month). That said... There are HUNDREDS of physiological causes, and HUNDREDS of psychological causes... So I won't try to list them out. What are your spouse's causes? (("I just don't want to" is totally valid for random occasions... But consistant refusal means there's at least 1 or more root causes. Most of which are fixable. Not all -mutilation & complete loss of enervation, for example, is something we can't fix. At least, not yet.))

Actually, it was a 3 week long study 24/7. Gotta love RobotSuits (what we called the plethora of wires). Military. It only relates in the section I was quoting... About how people say they spend all night dreaming, but don't & are actually XY long through dreaming & not. That may be generally true, but not true for everyone, or for everyone all the time.