serapha

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Everything posted by serapha

  1. There's no reason to walk on the edge all of your teen years either.... And, I don't know what "and all" means.... If statistics count, such as you seem to be citing, then you may know this... you have a long life ahead of you... no reason to hurry in any relationship now. Practice doesn't make perfect in all things. ~serapha~
  2. Yes, ammon, Those are good questions. Now, I see the notation of one question pertains to "before a revision".... John Tvedtnes writes that the earliest text of the book of mormon had the most "evidences" according the Hebraims, interchangeable prepositions, and compound prespositions, etc.. Why revise and make a book less perfect? Ad my question to the list of questions, okay. ~serapha~
  3. 2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have dreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have seen a vision. "... your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" (Joel 2:28) Could someone define dream and vision, as I have the understanding that they are two entirely different words. 5 And it came to pass that I saw a man, and he was dressed in a white robe; and he came and stood before me. Any ideas on who the spirit guide is? 10 And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one happy. 11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen. Considering that as soon as Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge, God sent them from the Garden of Eden. Had Adam and Eve eaten of the tree of life within the garden, then their eternal fate would have been sealed in a state of sin, without the possibility of redemption. Lehi doesn't receive the knowledge as from the tree of knowledge , and the tree of life doesn't appear to be symbolic of eternal life as in the Genesis account. Many comparisons have been made concerning the tree of life... no two have the same interpretation that I have read. Most ancient civilizations had a version of the "tree of life" though all the civilizations had different interpretations. So what is the "right" interpretation? 20 And I also beheld a strait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world. The rod of iron is the word of God, right? so, specifically, what is "the Word of God" to be understood to be? The written word, the traditional word, the revealed word, the restored word, the words of a living prophet? 23 And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost. Why does God allow the people who were trying to make the journey to be lost? 24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree. So, if one has not heard the "word" and "caught hold" of the "word", then they will be lost? What about the invisibible qualities of God in Romans 1 and 2? 27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit. Persecution? And who are the "young and old?" Certainly "young" it not understood to be the innocence of youth? 38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them. Meaning? Did Lehi cease to try and reach his sons for the Lord? Joseph Smith Sr. had a similar visions as he was a "visionary man" also... Was Joseph Smith Sr being selected to tell the story as "Lehi" and Joseph Smith Jr. to tell the story as "Nephi?" ~serapha~
  4. Franken.... Don't put yourself in any compromising situations and you won't have to be worrying about when to kiss someone. There are ten steps of sexual gradification... once you pass a step in a relationship, there is no going back a step, the natural feeling is to move forward. 1. hand-to-hand 2. hand-to-shoulder 3. hand-to-waist 4. face-to-face 5. hand-to-head 6. body-to-body (hug) 7. mouth-to-face 8. mouth-to-mouth 9. hand-to-body 10. body-to-body (sex) Now, at 15, do you really want to be at step #8 on a 10-step process? ~serapha~
  5. But this one is really good... a broad base on Nephi. http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookofmo...view.php?book=1 And I have a picture of the altar described in the article... "Newly Found Altars from Nahom" and if you are any good at French, I am reading an article by George Potter that I cannot find in English about the 81 evidences... (any help there?) And I just ordered a book on this (Stela 5) that corelates this article.... "The History of an Idea: The Scene on Stela 5 from Izapa, Mexico, as a Representation of Lehi's Vision of the Tree of Life" Hey... I know I am slow in reading the book of mormon, but I said I have read large chunks of it.... just not in order as it is in the book of mormon. ~serapha~
  6. Oops! I meant "chapter"... is this the shortest chapter in the bom, 6 verses. ~serapha~
  7. Hi there! Well, yes, I have a copy of the bom, the page number is the same in every book, I am reading 1 Nephi, Chapter 7 on page 12-14 I also am read reading Brant Gardner's web page with comments on line, Rediscovering the Book of Mormon (Sorenson), Lehi's 81 evidences (Potter and Wellington) as the book pertains to 1 Nephi and part of 2 Nephi, and http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/QArch.pdf I have this in my favorites.... http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/onlinebooks.htm http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/text/at-jerusalem.html http://holylandphotos.org/browse.asp?s=1,2...98&img=IJOTIT28 (the tomb where the inscription on the metal scroll was found, which is cited as an evidence for the bom) http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookofmo...view.php?book=1 http://www.mahonri.org/story/2002/6/19/193352/214 http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/QArch.pdf http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/inside.htm http://www.boisechurchofchrist.org/Q.A.%20...swers/Q&A15.htm http://www.boisechurchofchrist.org/Q.A.%20...swers/Q&A15.htm http://www.apologetics.com/ubb/ultimatebb....3/t/000029.html http://www.bibleman.net/gallery.htm http://www.asor.org/AM/AM99abs.pdf And another 65 sites in my favorites filed under "mormon" Do you want the titles of the 65 sites in my file? ~serapha~
  8. In man's finite mind, he may comprehend the First Person of the Trinity, the Father, as there is an image of his earthly father in his mind. The same occurs with the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son. Man can envision the incarnate Christ as a human. Christ bore witness of the Father, and the Holy Spirit bears witness of the Son. For the Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, there is no one to bear witness to Him. Our only record is the written Word and the record of the believer who feels the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The written record identifies the Holy Spirit with person pronouns, he and it are pronouns often used to describe the Spirit; and the Spirit has traits of a person. He speaks, He moves, He leads, He guides--all of which are activities related to the human person. ~serapha~
  9. Hi there! I don't know about "mainstream Christianity", but most denominations support the Apostle's Creed in their manuals or doctrines. My denomination doesn't adhere to creeds. ~serapha~
  10. "Our Heavenly Family" Is this a church doctrine, or just a "teaching" of Joseph Smith. If I don't have the memory of my previous life, how am I assured that it existed? Who determines if we pass, and what happens if one doesn't pass their tests? And what is "a fulness of joy"??? On page 14, it states, "If we passd our tests, we would receive the fulness of joy... and on page 15 it states, "... if we placed our faith in him (a Savior), obeying his word and following his example, we would be exalted and become like our heavenly parents. We would receive a fulness of joy." Is it passing the tests or our faith which gives us fulness of joy... (please define fulness of joy). ~serapha~
  11. Ammon, don't let that anger eat at you. (The Serenity Prayer is generally thought to have been written by Reinhold Niebuhr) When you cannot change the people or circumstances, then just commit it to God and move on. ~serapha~
  12. 1 And now I would that ye might know, that after my father, Lehi, had made an end of prophesying concerning his seed, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto him again, saying that it was not meet for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness alone; but that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise. But wasn't the selection of Ishmael's family because the daughters of Lehi were already married to the sons of Ishmael? Didn't I read that somewhere else in the bom? Brant Gardner states, "The numbers in the group have a bearing for the later presence in the Americas. With a beginning population of only 14 numbered persons, what are the chances that this group would populate a significant portion of the Americas given their time of arrival? Even accounting for the births along the way, this population base is too small to account for Book of Mormon numbers, particularly noting the rapid separation of the group into the Nephites and Lamanites." 12 Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten that the Lord is able to do all things according to his will, for the children of men, if it so be that they exercise faith in him? Wherefore, let us be faithful to him. John Tvedtnes writes concerning this passage, "In 1 Nephi 7:12 the 1830 edition read "let us be faithful in him." .... citing the passage as a proof of Hebraisms in the bom, the interchanging of in and to in Hebrew, a quality of translation that is lost in new translations. 16 And it came to pass that when I, Nephi, had spoken these words unto my brethren, they were angry with me. And it came to pass that they did lay their hands upon me, for behold, they were exceedingly wroth, and they did bind me with cords, for they sought to take away my life, that they might leave me in the wilderness to be devoured by wild beasts. 17 But it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, according to my faith which is in thee, wilt thou deliver me from the hands of my brethren; yea, even give me strength that I may burst these bands with which I am bound. 18 And it came to pass that when I had said these words, behold, the bands were loosed from off my hands and feet, and I stood before my brethren, and I spake unto them again. Was this to be considered a miracle of God or the strength of the human man? 22 And it came to pass that we did come down unto the tent of our father. And after I and my brethren and all the house of Ishmael had come down unto the tent of my father, they did give thanks unto the Lord their God; and they did offer sacrifice and burnt offerings unto him. So, on day 1 of the unified group, there is, once again, offered sacrifices by a group of people who were aware that Judaism taught centralized worship with sacrifices only at Jerusalem. It just seems as a direct defiance of judaic teachings, a process of "pick and choose" what judaic teachings to retain and which ones to dismiss. ~serapha~
  13. 1 Nephi 6:2 2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph. Noel Reynolds comments, "Nephi's Political Testament" "Nephi also supported his claim to authority by indirectly comparing his situation to those of Old Testament leaders. .... (see 1 Nephi 5:14, 2 Nephi 3:4).... Note that the bow was anciently a symbol connected with Joeph -- see Genesis 49:23-24." The bow was also symbolic of the Egyptian war goddess, Neith. 3 And it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God. Terrence Szink, "Nephi and the Exodus" "It is important to understnad that Nephi wrote this record of his family's journey at least thirty years after they had left Jerusalem (see 2 Nephi 5:28-3). In his writing, he most likely referred to what had been put down on the larger, "historical" plates or on perishable materials. He could pick and choose information from those earlier sources and shape it any way he saw fit. The result was not a day-to-day or even a year-to-year acount of what had happened. Rather, it was a record that higthlighted certian events and put special emphasis on "the things of God" BTW, is this the shortest book in the bom? ~serapha~
  14. Find somebody else to talk with.Agreed..... ~serapha~
  15. Kevin, If you want to pick up the discussion from the first posting, I would be glad to have a discussion with you... just address issues and not people. ~serapha~
  16. Snow, I'm off the forum until your conduct is addressed by a moderator, or until you change your attitude. Don't you realize that anyone "seeking" answers in mormonism will take one look at this forum and move on to some other place. How long has it been since someone actually visited this forum and posted that they were investigating mormonism? I would think that an investigator would look at all the nastiness here and determine that if all mormons can do is post nasty, personal and insulting responses, that mormonism isn't for them. As I have been told, the internet is an opportunity to express your witness, to show your testimony. Who wants to be a mormon when the responses on here are hateful, personal, and insulting? I certainly don't want what you have, snow.... and I doubt anyone else does either. ~serapha~
  17. Again... Snow.... If you want my conversation ... get out of the catetory of personal insults. Perhaps you don't understand... It isn't worth my time or effort. ~serapha~Please watch overly agressive language and phrasing..
  18. Let me see... 45 million divided by 100 years... that would average 450,000 a year... http://www.creativeministry.org/research/T...TrendsMay03.htm Christian Martyrs–Not Just Ancient History Scholars have admitted in a respected academic journal that they are surprised by the magnitude of a new accounting of Christian who have suffered death for their faith during the 20 th century. "Nothing in mainstream scholarship prepares one for such a colossal reckoning of human suffering," writes Michael J. McClymond, associate professor of theology at St. Louis University, about David Barrett’s statistics in the revised edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia published by Oxford University Press. The total number of Christian martyrs is reported at 45 million during the 20 th century. The definition: "Believers in Christ who lost their lives prematurely, in situations of witness, as a result of human hostility." This includes Christian affiliated with the known denominations and unaffiliated Christians, and even crypto-Christians who may be living in settings where they feel they must keep their profession of Christ secret. Included among the 45 million are entire villages of Armenian Christians who were lined up in 1915 and given the choice, "Christ or Muhammad?" and immediately shot if they chose Christ. "In 1977 the same choice was offered to [Anglican] Archbishop Janani Luwun of Uganda, who was shot through the mouth by the national leader himself, Idi Amin." Many others are included from communist China and the former Soviet Union. "The Salvadoran [Catholic] Archbishop Oscar Romero, gunned down in 1980 while celebrating the Eucharist, is counted as a Christian martyr because his advocacy on behalf of the poor–the proximate cause of his death–was inseparable from his ministry and witness as a churchman." Of course, a number of Seventh-day Adventists are included in the count who died refusing to work on the Sabbath or to confess political wrong-doing for simple acts of evangelism and similar reasons. Source: Journal of the American Academy of Religion, December 2002
  19. Snow.... If you want my conversation ... get out of the catetory of personal insults. I know it will be hard to raise yourself up... but God will give you the grace to do so as well as the patience to endure other people's opinions without taking it to a personal level. All you have to do is ask God for the grace... I might add... Killing the messenger has never killed the message. ~serapha~
  20. Snow, I believe I have asked you more than once to put forth one statement, and we can discuss it. The Word of God contains no unreconcilable error. Is that sufficient provocation to bring you to action? Just because you believe the Bible to contain error, just simply doesn't make it so. Now, are we back on track? If not, then know this, it wasn't me that moved. ~serapha~
  21. That a fallacious line of thinking. It suggests that as the ancient authors of what later became the Bible, they were writing with the idea there was something more to say. It's not like Paul was thinking, hey, the Bible lack such and such point, I'd better get it written. There is no such thing as "complete." Eventually, by the early second century the ancient Christians lost the spirit of revelation that allowed them to write scripture. All Christians that I am aware of agree to that. God stopped talking to them. Then, over the course of a couple hundred years, through politics and battles and guessing, various canons took shapes, books were sorted through, and then - long after the inspiration was gone - the mass murder Constantine sponsered councils that essentially compiled the Bible into it's basic form. It was put together, not by prophets, but by committee, led by a serial killer. Ninety percent of your posting was purely your own speculation concerning the canonization of the Bible. God has never stopped talking to people..... it's called "prayer"... personal revelation.... or private revelation. God has stopped talking to the entirity of the world. He gave us a finished work. It ends with "amen". It is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It gives the final account of this world and sums up the eternal life to come. ~serapha~
  22. That a fallacious line of thinking. It suggests that as the ancient authors of what later became the Bible, they were writing with the idea there was something more to say. It's not like Paul was thinking, hey, the Bible lack such and such point, I'd better get it written. There is no such thing as "complete." Eventually, by the early second century the ancient Christians lost the spirit of revelation that allowed them to write scripture. All Christians that I am aware of agree to that. God stopped talking to them. Then, over the course of a couple hundred years, through politics and battles and guessing, various canons took shapes, books were sorted through, and then - long after the inspiration was gone - the mass murder Constantine sponsered councils that essentially compiled the Bible into it's basic form. It was put together, not by prophets, but by committee, led by a serial killer. If corruption is the reason that you dismiss something, then you are in for a rude awakening as a member of the CoJCoLDS's. It never ceases to amaze me that the LDS's use a specific argument to discredit the Bible or a particular theological stance of other denominations, but when the same argument is applied to the bom, the same members will scream... anti-mormon!!!!! ~serapha~
  23. Hi there! It would be important to know the type of depressions that was being treated for an accurate statement to be issued. http://www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/d...sion_types.html The important point is that those that need help, find help. Sometimes God seems to heal the person from depression, other times, it appears that God has just left the depressed person on his/her own and at the mercy of the medications. ~serapha~
  24. "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:1-2 So what needs to be added to the Old and New Testament to make it more complete? ~serapha~
  25. Hi there! I don't think that there was any altar mentioned in the book of Ether, whereas, they came from a culture that family built altars to worship the one true God. The comparison was that those who were indoctrined in the use of family altars, never instituted the concept in mesoamerica while those who were indoctrinated against family altars, instituted the practice. Interesting thought. ~serapha~