The Folk Prophet

Just FYI, the combined KFD is not entirely reliable. Some of the things taught therein are currently taught by the church and clearly doctrinal. Some of the things are not. The various reports differ. The day was windy and it was difficult for all to hear. It is a very interesting read, but you'll come across a few ideas that will likely make you think, "What on earth?" :)

I would argue that we should be more concerned with being ministering angel than in seeking them. Let God and HIs angels do as He will. Our "seeking" of ministering angels is not a special thing that we should be focused on. To me that is a clear "looking beyond the mark" thing. Our seeking of ministering angels should come down to nothing more than what we have been given. Serve God. Serve others. Keep the commandments. The angels will attend. The Ministering of Angels - Jeffrey R. Holland I think it's a bit of a stretch to think Lennoxlewy has been given a "special gift" because he's fascinated with something. I have been fascinated with many subjects over the years that have nothing to do with special gifts, unless of course fascination itself can be considered a special gift. The gifts of the spirit are also not magic. "...and they come unto every man severally, according as he will." Everyone has the right to the gifts of the spirit as we obey and have need, according to the Lord's will. Everyone of us may have the attendance of ministering angels as we serve God. But our focus should be to serve and obey God.

Whereas you are right, it is not fair to imply that it is a "church" issue. It is a people issue. How to deal with those with unique needs is not a problem that is bred by the LDS church in any degree. All people and organizations need to be better equipped in this regard, the church included.

You should maintain perspective on things. But beware of ideas that would discount the seriousness of sin as well. Per the handbook, you will not be given a disciplinary counsel for what you've given here as your sins. Nothing you've spoken of is an excommunication offense. This is not the way sealings work. For a sealing to be broken it must be officially broken by authorization of the first presidency. Talk to your bishop. He will counsel you through it. There is a balance that needs to be struck in your feelings. Yes, sin is serious. Yes, it causes guilt, and justly so. Yes, you should feel bad about it. Yes, you need to repent sincerely. But your concerns and fears strike me as extreme beyond what they should be. Your sins are not "pretty light stuff", but they aren't the end of the world either. And you can repent and you can be forgiven. What your sins are, however, is common. They are very, very common. That does not discount the serious nature sin. But you should understand that there are many, many, many men in the church who have struggled with the same. Many have overcome and some are now even your leaders, free and clear from such burdens. Sins can be repented of. And you can be made clean. As for how your wife will feel, that depends on your wife, and it is one of those "reap what you sew" things. That is one of the downsides of sin. It hurts others. Hopefully she will be understanding and forgiving. Ideally she will be. Talk to your bishop.

I'm sure wondering how long it will be until this starts happening again. They (OW) seem determined to push the issue further and further. Eventually...the church will need to defend itself and it's members against the barrage of attacks that continue to be more and more aggressive.

Meekness, humility, serving others, and unselfishness is dark? O................kaaaay.......

Read those ^ then we'll talk. :)

Anxiously Engaged

The Gospel in Our Lives

Put Off the Natural Man, and Come Off Conqueror

Repent of [Our] Selfishness

I would suppose that the attending of ministering angels and the "when" of that is the purview of the angels as directed by the Lord, and not our place to "call them forth", particularly not for selfish reasons. Our place is to obey -- or, rather, to do the will of God in all things, not to improve our lives and situations by trying to wield sacred things as if they are magic.

...can't now...because we wouldn't know who to seal to whom. But these sealings will have to be done by proxy by someone at some point. Ordinances must be done in mortality.

We are....unless Christ lives, God reigns, and we're actually right. But until that is proven, yeah...we will be viewed that way.

My first example concerns Satan’s efforts to corrupt a person who has an unusual commitment to one particular doctrine or commandment of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This could be an unusual talent for family history work, an extraordinary commitment to constitutional government, a special talent in the acquisition of knowledge, or any other special talent or commitment. - DALLIN H. OAKS Edit: This was in response to this: Edit more: Actually the whole talk is fantastic. Here.

Oh my goodness gracious me. I believe the world has ended.

Uh....circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

Protein shake.

+1. While I know there are things like this that do happen (I've been mistreated myself by ward leadership, and I'm not a female or a feminist) I find that when there is a consistent pattern of supposed problems like this (assuming it isn't all fabricated to get a rise out of everyone) then there's something amiss with the offended more than the accused offenders. For example, we have a family in our ward that has gone inactive because of "abuse". I have been personally involved in much of the effort around them and there has been nothing but love, invitation, kindness, help, service, etc., etc. shown towards them. But according to them they are constantly abused, belittled, judged, mistreated, berated, hated, and marginalized. It's easy to throw one-sided accusations at church leadership. I wonder what the local leaders would say were they willing to accuse back. I wonder what would really come out in an honest, fair, both sides, legitimate assessment. These are easy, safe attacks on the church. The best the church can do to defend themselves is with content like in this letter, because the bishops and stake president don't publish the issues, tell their side of the story, etc., because it would break confidences and offend even worse. The church is, and has been, working to solve legitimate issues. The letter makes that clear for anyone who didn't already believe it (not that those who didn't believe it before will believe the letter). Frankly, the church is, and has been, working to solve non-legitimate, irrational issues too. It will never be enough. The efforts of Satan to tear down the church can never be satiated. No matter how many policy changes, doctrinal alterations, and management re-orgs occurred (even up to and including replacing the entire leadership of the church with women) it will NEVER be good enough for those unwilling to humble themselves and look past human imperfection to God's will, ways and means. We live a spoiled-brat existence in these latter-days. The current cultural climate breeds entitlement. Entitlement is not God's way.

In the age of Google and Wikipedia there is no longer any excuse for making such mistakes. But, to be fair, I make them myself from time to time. It's a good lesson. Google first. Comment Second.

Just for the record here, I'm pretty solidly in agreement with mdfxdb here. In case anyone was wondering. :)

I suppose it depends on your age and the "older woman's" age. If you're 30 and she's 40 then there might be problem. If your 65 and she's 70 there might be a problem. If you're 30 and she's 70 there's probably no problem. Transgressing?! Haha. Impropriety? Maybe. Transgressing? Show me that commandment anywhere. "Thou shalt not drive another woman to church if you are married under any circumstances."

Whereas anatess is right that we do not have specific revelation as to what happens, it is clear that the ordinance of celestial marriage must be performed in the temple by living persons. I expect those who die single will have it set right sometime in the millennium and will have that work done for them just as any work must be done for any who have died without the opportunity for ordinance work in this life.

For digestion by those interested: M. Russell Ballard "I testify to you that this is true and that the Father and the Son appeared in wondrous vision to young Joseph as a step in the restoring of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth." "Through subsequent, equally miraculous experiences, Joseph Smith was God’s instrument in...establishing the restored church of Jesus Christ in these latter days with the fulness of the gospel as taught in the meridian of time by the Savior and His Apostles," "The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ or it is not. Either the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored to earth through God’s chosen latter-day prophet or it was not." James E. Faust "This prophecy has been fulfilled. Because we believe the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored in our time by the Prophet Joseph Smith, we wish to give all people an opportunity to know and accept this message." "I am grateful that the Restoration of the fulness of the gospel has taken place in our time." Joseph B. Wirthlin "Today more than 44,000 missionaries are working to fulfill the divine mandate to preach the gospel. They bless the people they teach by acquainting them with the fulness of the restored gospel." Richard G. Scott "[Missionaries] will skillfully unfold the subsequent events that restored the fulness of the gospel, with the authority to act in the name of God, on earth again." Russell M Nelson "This unique mortal mission of the Lord—the gospel as He defined it—we know as the Atonement. The fulness of the gospel, therefore, connotes a fuller comprehension of the Atonement. This we do not obtain from the Bible alone. The word atonement, in any of its forms, is mentioned only once in the King James Version of the New Testament. In the Book of Mormon, it appears 39 times! 24 The Book of Mormon also contains more references to the Resurrection than does the Bible." Harold B Lee "On the day the Church was organized, and shortly thereafter, the word of the Lord came to the prophet-leader of this dispensation. After the announcement of the establishment of the church of Christ in these latter days, the Lord gave to the President of the Church commandments and “gave him power from on high,” first, to bring forth “a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:8–9); then, to be a light to the world and a standard for Church members and for those who are not members to seek for it (D&C 45:9); third, to prepare a people ready to receive the coming of the Lord; and finally, to teach the fullness of the gospel with power unto all nations (see Documentary History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 537)." Boyd K Packer "We, as members of the Church, have the fullness of the gospel." "How disappointing when the fullness of the gospel, the whole keyboard, is here upon the earth, that many churches tap on a single key. The note they stress may be essential to a complete harmony of religious experience, but it is, nonetheless, not all there is. It isn’t the fullness." "Now we do not say they are wrong so much as we say they are incomplete. The fullness of the gospel has been restored. The power and the authority to act for Him is present with us. The power and the authority of the priesthood rests upon this church." "It is not unusual to find people who take an interest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but give only casual attention to the ideal that the fullness of the gospel is here."

Heheh. Whoops. Yeah. I meant everything but the endowment and celestial marriage.