The Folk Prophet

Members
  • Posts

    12210
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    191

Posts posted by The Folk Prophet

  1. Just now, LDSGator said:

    Can you explain it nice and simple so someone of my meager intellectual capabilities can grasp it?    

    Well, I supposed it also depends on what you mean by "suck it up".

    I said what I said. No matter how offensive the behavior and beliefs are of our fellow members the proper response isn't to leave Christ's church and damn ourselves accordingly.

    That doesn't mean that if 9 out of 10 members think that gay temple marriage ought to be a thing that the remaining 1% should just embrace it as well. If that's what you mean by "suck it up" and "the church" then the answer is no. I said we shouldn't leave the church and damn ourselves. So if not leaving the church and not damning ourselves is what you mean by "suck it up", then yes, I guess.

    If, however, you mean that the prophet stands up in General Conference and declares that gay marriage is legit now and gay temple marriages will now be performed... well, in that case, yeah. Members should suck it up and deal. If by suck it up and deal you mean pray about it, gain a testimony of the direction, and sustain the prophet.

    That's a ridiculous hypothetical though. But there are some definite things that are less ridiculous that could change in the church's approach. And some that probably will. And some that already have.

    I mean already they have women giving prayers in General Conference! Blasphemy!!! :D :D

  2. 8 minutes ago, zil2 said:

    I can't disagree, @The Folk Prophet.  All I can do is hope that something we say will let @old know that the things he's experiencing aren't the norm church-wide and that it's better for him to do whatever is required to bring his family back to the Church.

    Agreed.

    It's a challenge, of course. Because the answer in any case is the same. Humility. Faith. Obedience.

    And, I put it to you and @old and anyone... What if it were the norm church-wide? Does that make any difference.

    God's covenants are His. God's church is His. God's commandments are His.

    None of that changes no matter how other members behave.

    The reality we face is that it may well become the norm church-wide. The reality is that some of that stuff already is the norm church-wide (just not in leadership...typically).

    I understand the challenge. I understand the offense.

    But what are we going to do about it? Damn ourselves in protest?

  3. 29 minutes ago, zil2 said:

    I agree that it's so strange that it's hard to imagine.  But then, you and I are in high-density Zion where the house across the street might be in another stake.  My bishop has never threatened to take out a restraining order against me.  So, yeah, I just don't know.  A year ago, as long as this ward was in the lower 48, I would have volunteered to take a drive and see them for myself.  But Klaw has not yet learned to enjoy car rides, so that's out. :)

    All we really know is that there's a lot more to this story.

    Right. What I'm really trying to suggest (as you have already stated in previous posts, but....probably nicer than how I would put it), is that no one with a solid testimony and faith in the gospel would EVER start attending an Orthodox church. That fact alone doesn't make me fully disbelieve that the SP, bishop, and YW presidency behaved exactly the way it was claimed they behaved. But it does make the story suspect.

    I've had a lot of dealings with people who've gone inactive over the years. They always have similar sob stories. They've always been wronged by the church or members of the church or (most commonly) by the by leadership in the ward or stake. But despite the fact that said leadership is often no longer in the picture, and above-and-beyond extreme efforts have been made to show love, acceptance, kindness, etc., they are generally uninterested in returning. They claim members are too this, or too that, or behave this way or that way. And no matter how much that is or isn't true of the members in the new ward they've moved into..... well, you get my point.

    I know that sometimes bishops or SPs or whoever are terrible. Sure. But the reality of that being the cause of someone going inactive is, in my experience, extremely unlikely. When a person is so offended by the church that they actually leave it, I have found, that it's usually the person who's got issues rather than the church.

    Sure...this could be an outlier. This could be that rare exception... Except the attending the Orthodox church thing. That tells me point blank that this is not the exception. It's clear indication that there are testimony, faith, and understanding problems. Because no one who understands, believes in, and trusts what's important in the gospel would EVER abandon those things because some jerk leaders were jerks. Ever!

    In point of fact, the very idea that "love and acceptance" of gay people being taught in YW is somehow more of a danger to one's children than going inactive and attending an Orthodox church is so ridiculous it's almost laughable.

    If a YW leader is teaching things that aren't accurate it's pretty easy to sit down with your kid and explain to them that it isn't accurate and that not all leaders are perfect and sometimes people have some oddball approaches to the gospel.

    But if you've gone inactive and started attending another faith..... what sort of message are you teaching then? What sort of lesson are your children taking away from that?

    It's exposing one's children to SIGNIFICANTLY greater danger than some YW leader teaching that we have to love gay people and, perhaps, taking that a bit further on the progressive side of thinking than we're comfortable with.

    I could go on and on, breaking down the story being told in great detail...but to what end? As has been pointed out, it's a one-sided story and we really don't know for sure. What I do know is going inactive and ESPECIALLY going to another covenant-less church is not the answer.

    I don't have to deny the veracity of the story to draw this conclusion or make a judgement on the matter. I suspect the complete veracity of the story because of several red flags therein. But even were I to 100% accept its veracity, it doesn't change the fact that going inactive and then attending an Orthodox church instead is wildly off-based.

  4. 38 minutes ago, zil2 said:

    If those who believe in the doctrine (?) just leave the Church (don't understand how such a person could, but that doesn't mean they can't)

    I'm well aware that some church leaders are flawed. Some are stupid. And some allow wrong things. But when someone starts claiming that they're the saintly innocent victim of the YW presidency, the bishopric, the Stake Presidency, etc. etc....

    Really? The entire ward and stake are the ones in the wrong? Nothing else going on here? Just corrupt leaders?

    Really?

    And, of course, attending an Orthodox church isn't a red flag now at all, is it? That doesn't indicate anything at all, does it now? Or....

    Maybe when something smells like fish, it's fish.

  5. The older I get the more I become convinced that one of the greatest evils in the world is thinking.

    This child thinks he's wise, and has decided that his "wisdom" will benefit the world.

    I've basically gotten to the point where, as smart and "wise" as I am, I'm full-on aware that I'm an foolish idiot.

    Add to that the reality that libido basically pumps drugs into one's brain, and you've got a messed up child who's an idiot and a fool, and as good as on drugs (as all horny teenagers are) preaching his view of truth and wisdom to the world. Useful.

    Well, that's the whole story of gaydom in my view. It's lunacy to look at it any way but a bunch of foolish idiots with chemically compromised brains preaching garbage that's worth less than nothing.

    That is the why of commandments. That is they why of the Lord's boundaries. This stupid foolish compromised kid has no idea what he's talking about, and yet is locking himself into an eternal course. And on top of that he's preaching to others what his idea of "truth" on the matter is.

    Sadly, this is common.

    I, of course, think I understand things. But I'm "wise" enough to know I really don't. I have beliefs that are pretty firm. But debating from those beliefs isn't useful because, as I just said, I'm a foolish idiot.

    But.... The Lord has given us standards. The Lord has given us boundaries. Within the Lord's standards and boundaries we can find happiness. Outside the Lord's standards and boundaries we never will. It's as simple as that.

    Homosexuality, despite any view of the science or psychiatry of it, is not within the Lord's standards and boundaries. It never has been. It never will be. It, in any form, will never lead to peace and happiness.

    Whether or not it's a choice isn't relevant to that. We all have natures that are outside the Lord's standards and boundaries. Everyone of us must put aside those things and traverse within the Lord's standards and boundaries in order to find happiness and peace.

    Any view other than that is...well...foolish and stupid.

    The path is narrow and few shall find it.

  6. 3 minutes ago, pam said:

    I've not watched a movie of his since his interview where he tore down Brooke Shields.  

    Gotchya.

    The following is in no way meant to convince you of anything. Just sharing:

    I remember when Evita came out that my sister refused to see it because Madonna was in it. I have a friend who refuses to see anything with certain left-leaning actors. Etc.

    I can sort of understand this. It can be difficult to separate the personal jerk-faced-ness of the individual out enough to be able to enjoy their playing a role. But, honestly, with me it depends on how well they can act. If their personality bothers me and then that personality bleeds into their acting...yeah.

    But I really don't get my friends, "I won't watch that because so-n-so is a lefty."

    Um.... it's Hollywood. It's almost ALL lefties.

    Which, okay... don't partake of Hollywood. I could get behind that and respect it. It's when he watches movies with other actors who are just as evil and lefty, but slightly less outspoken maybe, that I start thinking there's some inconsistency problems and bias going on there.

    For the most part, I've been able to separate out that personal lives of the actors from the characters they play. If the character is honorable, then that usually works for me.

    As for Tom Cruise, I actually respect his stances. Note that I do not mean I agree with them. But to stand for a position (no mind altering drugs) and hold true to it against the hate of the world....

    I mean if someone was taking Marijuana to deal with something a lot of us (including myself) would probably say that's a bad idea. If the world (including the medical community) decided alcohol was the proper way to treat some ailment we would definitely consider it a mistake.

    Tom did sincerely apologize to Brooke Shields (according to her) for bringing her into it they way he did. I think he recognized that his "how" was mistaken. But he's remained true to his position on drugs none-the-less. And though I do disagree with him on it, I respect his conviction.

    That being said (and, as I said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I respect your view on the matter), none of that plays into my enjoyment or not of Tom Cruise's movies. He's never (that I know of) preached against post-partem drugs in his roles. And if he did, I would not be interested in that movie.

    Anyhow. Just my thoughts. No arguments or contention intended whatsoever. :) 

  7. 2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

    Is this another "Artists always suffer" moment?

    If you're referring to my post...

    I have never said, never would say, or believe it to be morally right in any regard to claim "suffering" because of art. And people who do complain about such.... grow up and get a real job...and a haircut. And get off my lawn.

  8. @LDSGator, here's another example of trying to make it (specifically in the "Mormon" world).

    We wrote and produced a musical based on the Children of the Promise books by Dean Hughes. (This is actually my latest completed work, and I'm quite proud of a lot of it). We got permission from Deseret Book to write and perform it. We even got Dean Hughes to attend the performance. And his feedback was quite positive. (Though that could have been mere politeness).

    But....we don't own the copyright. And Deseret Book, despite giving us the permission to perform, did not give us perpetual stage or performance rights. That means.... I can't even upload the stuff to youtube or spotify. It's work I did that is dead until Deseret Book says otherwise.

    Although we invited the Deseret Book folk to come see it as well, they didn't. And although we submitted it to them afterwards (video, recordings, etc), it seems apparent (from their replies) that they didn't even bother reviewing the materials. They just weren't interested. It didn't fit their current trend-chasing goals. So it's dead for now.

  9. Just now, LDSGator said:

    You’ve also tried to “make it.”

    Sort of.

    I'm not the best test case for really having "tried". Like I explained in the PM, I purposefully made other choices based on what was more important to me (family, stability, etc.)

    1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

    The only comparison I have (and it’s a lousy comparison) is my martial arts “career”. Which bombed when I realized in two seconds that my best jump turning 45 kicks did nothing against my opponent. Even more sad was this was a B tournament. We’re not talking Olympics here. 

    And it's entirely possible that I'm delusional and simply can't compete with the big boys. Of course it's a delusion I can more easily maintain because there is no objective standard like in your case. Your jump kick didn't work. That fact doesn't care about your feelings. ;)

    But even my current lack of success on YouTube so far....well I can blame YouTube's algorithm, right? It's just not feeding my videos to the right people yet. Right? :D Or...who knows? But it isn't concrete evidence that my writing sucks. So I can still happily believe I'm as good as Lin Manuel Miranda or Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. (In point of fact, I'm not a huge fan of the latter (La La Land, Dear Evan Hansen, The Greatest Showman, etc.)).**

    There are some objective standards to measure creative art quality, of course. I mean if a million people watch a video and every single one of them clicks thumbsdown.....maybe you should consider your capabilities a bit...

    What I find with feedback on stuff I create....one person loves it, it's amazing, how can I not have succeeded yet, etc.,...and then next person points out that it's just not good and I haven't succeeded yet because I suck. It always ends up feeling much more a commentary on the person giving the feedback than on my stuff. Which does make it somewhat difficult to asses things re improvement.

    Shrug.

    ** Even the big boys don't always nail it. Look at the hatred Lin Manuel Miranda's new song for The Little Mermaid received. 

    https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/the-little-mermaid-remake-scuttlebutt-worst-disney-songs-lin-manuel-miranda-halle-bailey-alan-menken-soundtrack-1234742473/

    And even huge hits like Les Misérables (Claude-Michel Schönberg and Alain Boublil). You'd think those guys were golden! Their follow up, Miss Saigon, was a hit too, though not as renowned, but then they did Martin Guerre, which kind of flopped, and finally The Pirate Queen, which was an honest-to-goodness FLOP with a capital F. And they disappeared into oblivion, because when push came to shove, apparently, they couldn't actually play with the big boys.

    C'est la vie.

  10. 14 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

    Battlestar Galactica was inspired by the journey to Utah. 

    An original draft of the concept *literally* referred to the Galactica and the other survivors as "Space Mormons". 

    That's what I'm getting at. 

    I'm well aware. The idea that success can be derived from a formula isn't a correct though*. It might work, but if it does, it's as much luck of the draw as is writing something entirely original.

    *unless that formula is simply quality. Edit: And even then, quality is not a formula for success. So I take it back.

  11. 24 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

    The key is to make your overall product appealing enough to the mainstream while still having church-friendly messages and content. 

    The key is never, and will never be, to chase trends or stats or philosophies when it comes to making art and entertainment.

  12. 6 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

    I also watched his 14 minute long "open letter to the church" video

    Argh...just the first 10 seconds and I'm disgusted!

     

    Edit: Okay I watched it all. And.... I'm still disgusted. But.... there are some interesting points he made. Particularly, I have never understood the Church's support for LoveLoud. And similar matters. Some of his points are ridiculous though. The church's ads in The Book of Mormon musical wasn't support for or endorsement of the musical.

    I don't think the Church should support his movie. He's being a whiney baby man about that. And complaining about the church publicly, particularly from a position like his, is just terrible. But I do understand how he would feel frustrated at the some of the things he points out.

     

    It is an interesting thing to consider. I was telling @LDSGator in a pm earlier how I used to write exclusively church related stuff for my musicals. I always struggled a bit with that on the commercial balance side of things. One side of me thinks that profiting off of "spiritual" things in any way feels an awful lot like Priestcraft. But the other side of me thinks what better way to profit than by also sharing spiritual messages that might benefit the world. I'm still torn on the idea. I really dislike a lot of "spiritual" artists like Michael McLean and the like because it feels so much like they're selling spirituality. It bugs me. And yet...I have had some of my greatest spiritual moments in life with music from Kenneth Cope. So I'm so very torn on the matter.

    Either way, the "open letter to the church" video is a big thumbs down from me.

  13. 6 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

    Ok, I watched the director comments, and I also watched his 14 minute long "open letter to the church" video, which basically gripes and complains and accuses our church of not doing right by his video.  Whining about how the church has supported other endeavors but not his.  Grousing about Stake Lagoon days and how the church has celebrities come sing with the Tabernacle Choir, but they refuse to endorse his movie.  He's so shocked.  Does the church not care?  Boo-hoo-hoo.  

    I'm officially not a fan.  Don't care about his stupid movie.  And I bet ten bucks he'll probably have left the church and be one of it's critics within 5 years.

     

    I didn't even come across all that and....yeah. That's about exactly how I expect things would be.

    On another note re the movie trailer. What on earth is up with Zane's accent?

  14. 3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

    Wow, we agree on something artistically! It came across as very fake to me, like he was telling me about a used car I should buy. 

    Well, I suspect he's sincere. Just... I dunno. Likely deluded, IMHO. I could be wrong. I just don't think this movie was his purpose and why he was saved, etc. 

    You know I'm a musician and write musical theater. I have severe delusions of grandeur and ambition. And yet I have never once allowed myself to think it's my "purpose" or some sort of holy calling. 

    If God uses me that way then that's His purview. But as soon as I start getting all high and mighty about it like I've been ordained to that end.... That just feels off.

    My purpose is to be a father, a husband, a humble servant in the church, and to try to be like my Savior as much as possible, repenting when failing. 

    Anything else is all fine and dandy. My job. My recreation. My dreams and ambitions.  But they are NOT my purpose.

  15. 6 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

    I am for positive media and messages.  Two more days and The Oath movie is released in about 650 theatres across America.  It is a movie about Moroni directed by Darin Scott.  The website is here.  The movie trailer for this film is here:

     

    I saw this a while back, and I can I just say for the record that the "special message" from the director totally turned me off here.