The Folk Prophet

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  1. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Grunt in Faith and Politics   
    I am always concerned, and bit surprised, when people write of the Telestial kingdom as no big deal, and try and excuse away this or that based on the idea that all will be "glory". It's like they have no concept of the relative nature of glory and punishment.
    Punishment is always relative. Glory is always relative. And they are relative to each other.
    There is only one state of perfect glory. All else is, relatively, punishment. There is only one state of perfect punishment. All else is, relatively, glory.
    This seems like a perfectly obvious idea to me, but apparently it isn't to all.
    It's like saying to two guys: to one, "For the next 50 years you get $100 because of your choices." and to the other, "For the next 50 years you get a billion dollars because of your choices," and then ignoring the reality that the guy who got $100 can't buy food for more than a few days, can't pay rent, can't buy a TV, can't get a car, etc., etc. but then saying, "it's not a punishment....you received money didn't you? It's a glory and an honor to have received this free $100. You couldn't abide a billion. It wasn't 'right' for you. And you chose the $100 by your own actions, so obviously you should be contented and happy with what you received."
    Of course it is a reward and a glory. Of course it wasn't right for him. Of course he chose it. But he still can't do the things the guy getting the billion can, obviously. And relatively, it's obviously punishment too.
    And people seem to think that because the guy made choices that led him to only get the $100 that he'll, therefore, be perfectly satisfied, contented, and honored to have made those choices and received the glory he did. At some level, sure...he'll make do with what he has. He has to. He'll learn a level of contentment with his lot. We all do with our lots to some degree. But to treat it like there will be no discontentment with our failure, we won't feel punished by it, and that we won't eternally regret what we chose just sort of baffles me.
  2. Like
    The Folk Prophet reacted to Vort in Faith and Politics   
    Nothing you have offered here (except for your opinions) indicates the number of sons of perdition will be unusually small. That is the inference made by Saints who conclude that, since denying Christ requires knowing Christ, and since there are few who truly know Christ, even among the Saints, this general ignorance of the world protects them from so damning themselves. (Strangely enough, it appears not to impede them from exaltation, a condition that requires intimate knowledge of the Savior in a personal way. But I suppose that's another topic.) In any case, this idea of protective ignorance may be right. But I personally do not find the argument particularly convincing.
    As a late middle-aged adult, I have found that many people crave the flesh and its desires, and seemingly care nothing for matters of the spirit. I have neither the authority nor the desire to name the condemnation such people will face, but it is not al all obvious to me that their fate can be waved off with a casual, "Oh, they're the telestial spirits." We simply do not know enough about such things to make any such determination.
  3. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Grunt in Gays, blacks and the church   
    I read it.
    Basically:
    Some people use what I think is twisted reasoning, so here's my twisted reasoning that you should accept because I think you should.
    In other words, standard By Common Consent fare
  4. Like
    The Folk Prophet reacted to Grunt in Gays, blacks and the church   
    You can find any number of progressive and ex members to write any number of articles criticizing the Church and its Prophets.   I don't read them, though.   I see "By Common Consent" and I just keep on scrolling.
  5. Like
    The Folk Prophet reacted to scottyg in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Truth is truth. It is not divisible and no part of it can be set aside. It does not change from person to person...wrong is never right. God will never lead His children to sin...it is against His nature, work, and glory. Blacks not holding the priesthood for a few years was a church policy. Marriage is an eternal principle; one defined by God Himself as the legal and lawful union of a man and a woman. He does not change eternal principles to fit the narratives of the vain Caesars of the day. Gay marriage is in fact a misnomer...it isn't possible. Homosexuality is wrong - a sin meant to disrupt progression and mock our divine nature.
    The practice is sin and will never, ever, be acceptable before the Lord. I'm sorry you doubt such things, and that your testimony is lacking. By the way you speak the chances seem high that you, or someone close to you, personally struggles with this. However, there are no loopholes to be found. Any hope for some new church guidance or what you think of as "revelation" that lessens or removes the sinful nature from this act is misplaced. The beliefs that you currently hold about these issues are wrong, and always will be. For many, that is the harsh reality that needs to be said more often. Sin is sin, and never leads one back to God.
    I hope the tone of my response is not read as one of anger, because it is not meant that way. I wish you well in your search for actual truth moving forward.
  6. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from LDSGator in CES Employees required to be Temple Worthy   
    The article states:
    "Any continuing employees who choose not to opt in to the standard, as well as employees who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ, must continue to meet existing employment and ecclesiastical standards."
    Which directly contradicts the claim that "all" CES employees "must" have a temple recommend.
    All of them have to...except the ones that don't.
  7. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Backroads in CES Employees required to be Temple Worthy   
    The article states:
    "Any continuing employees who choose not to opt in to the standard, as well as employees who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ, must continue to meet existing employment and ecclesiastical standards."
    Which directly contradicts the claim that "all" CES employees "must" have a temple recommend.
    All of them have to...except the ones that don't.
  8. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from mrmarklin in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Someone who is gay can already participate fully in all the blessings of the church if they choose to through their obedience. Which means there's no comparison to be made at all.
  9. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from scottyg in Gays, blacks and the church   
    It's the narrative that the leftist media has been pushing since Obama was elected. An awful lot of people just thoughtlessly accept it.
  10. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Traveler in Gays, blacks and the church   
    It's the narrative that the leftist media has been pushing since Obama was elected. An awful lot of people just thoughtlessly accept it.
  11. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Grunt in Gays, blacks and the church   
    It's the narrative that the leftist media has been pushing since Obama was elected. An awful lot of people just thoughtlessly accept it.
  12. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in Gays, blacks and the church   
    And none of these struggles will matter if we are humble, obedient, and repent when we make mistakes. All of these struggles will matter if we are prideful, disobedient, and fail to repent. Upon this common ground is the equity of God.
  13. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Backroads in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Someone who is gay can already participate fully in all the blessings of the church if they choose to through their obedience. Which means there's no comparison to be made at all.
  14. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Vort in Gays and the church   
    This is an interesting thing to think about regarding responsibility? Where does it lie? I mean wherein are we, the "teachers" culpable? Are we meant to (as I tend to believe) speak truth the best way we know how, and that fulfills our obligation...or must we learn mind-reading, advanced psychology, and have perfect, pure empathy for everyone's point of view or the failure is ours?
    And what teaching methods are required, really, on the other end of the spectrum, before an individual literally "can" or "cannot" understand? Is the onus for understanding on the teacher or the learner, ultimately?
    It's a challenging question. It's an idea I've been pondering on a lot regarding parenting, particularly. I want to teach my children well. But I can only do it the best that I can do it. And I have to accept that they have agency, and no matter what I do, they will still have agency. And I have to reconcile the ideas that no matter how much I teach and protect and guide my children, even IF successfully, there are so many children who aren't taught right, aren't protected, and aren't guided -- and they have every bit the same chance for exaltation per their agency as my children will.
    Obviously the answer is relative to each individual. We are asked to do our best and the Atonement makes up for the rest. Everyone's best is not the same. For some, the best they can do is throw books at people. And that is sufficient....for them...if it is truly their best.
    As for Archuleta... where does the blame actually lie? Who knows? We live in such a corrupt world that calling out accountability is tremendously difficult. And we shouldn't, really, anyhow. Judge not, and all that. We can definitely judge whether we think any course of action is wise or not though. Some of his are not. That seems clear. But does someone raised as he was in the world we live in even stand a chance at correct thinking? And if they don't, are they accountable?
    I do not know. Go ask your Pop.
  15. Like
    The Folk Prophet reacted to CV75 in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Given that, I think we need to be open to opposite-sex attraction not existing either. I know that might sound shocking, given that the "same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy." The difference, I believe, is that sexual unity, compatibility, function, and enjoyment between celestial man and wife are are driven by covenant and eternal glory, and not by the capricious mortal factors and dynamics affecting the children of God in a fallen world.
  16. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from carlimac in Gays, blacks and the church   
    "appears" to be according to what...?
    FWIW I fully and completely reject this idea. I do not believe it to be biological. I believe there are biological traits that might incline one towards things that relate, but...
    Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that it were fully biological, unchangeable, etc. Then still...
    ...this is still not an apples to apples comparison. It's comparing a persons, due to their skin color, being unable to have the priesthood to a person, due to their tastes, being unable to indulge in their tastes while remaining faithful and in good standing in the church. The need to not indulge in tastes that are sinful is common to ALL people in the church. It is not exclusive to homosexuals. Some people have tastes that are further out of bounds than others. But we all have out of bounds tastes. I've been "punished" in the same way throughout my life by having to repress my nastier urges to stay in good standing in the church. Though I would think it should be obvious that calling that a "punishment" is kind of flawed.
    FWIW, mere "skin color" was not the issue at hand in the priesthood restriction. Lineage was. But I digress. There was nothing they could refrain from to get the priesthood. Everyone has to refrain from certain things to qualify for blessings. Everyone. But even a perfect, sinless man, were that possible, could not have the priesthood prior to 1978 if he was of black African descent.
    And, for consideration also, women still cannot by virtue of being a woman. That, at least, would indeed be a legitimate comparison of ideas.
  17. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from carlimac in Gays, blacks and the church   
    But that difficulty is a choice. Blacks not being given the priesthood was not their choice. Someone choosing to believe the Church is wrong in homosexuality is something they can choose to not believe and the conflict is resolved.  No more difficulty in that regard. 
  18. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from carlimac in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Why don't they have access to the high blessings? 
    Belief is a choice. 
  19. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Gays, blacks and the church   
    But that difficulty is a choice. Blacks not being given the priesthood was not their choice. Someone choosing to believe the Church is wrong in homosexuality is something they can choose to not believe and the conflict is resolved.  No more difficulty in that regard. 
  20. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Someone who is gay can already participate fully in all the blessings of the church if they choose to through their obedience. Which means there's no comparison to be made at all.
  21. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Anddenex in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Someone who is gay can already participate fully in all the blessings of the church if they choose to through their obedience. Which means there's no comparison to be made at all.
  22. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from mirkwood in Gays, blacks and the church   
    Any two things can be compared. The question is whether there is any worth to the comparison. 
  23. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Gays, blacks and the church   
    And none of these struggles will matter if we are humble, obedient, and repent when we make mistakes. All of these struggles will matter if we are prideful, disobedient, and fail to repent. Upon this common ground is the equity of God.
  24. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from LDSGator in Gays, blacks and the church   
    "appears" to be according to what...?
    FWIW I fully and completely reject this idea. I do not believe it to be biological. I believe there are biological traits that might incline one towards things that relate, but...
    Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that it were fully biological, unchangeable, etc. Then still...
    ...this is still not an apples to apples comparison. It's comparing a persons, due to their skin color, being unable to have the priesthood to a person, due to their tastes, being unable to indulge in their tastes while remaining faithful and in good standing in the church. The need to not indulge in tastes that are sinful is common to ALL people in the church. It is not exclusive to homosexuals. Some people have tastes that are further out of bounds than others. But we all have out of bounds tastes. I've been "punished" in the same way throughout my life by having to repress my nastier urges to stay in good standing in the church. Though I would think it should be obvious that calling that a "punishment" is kind of flawed.
    FWIW, mere "skin color" was not the issue at hand in the priesthood restriction. Lineage was. But I digress. There was nothing they could refrain from to get the priesthood. Everyone has to refrain from certain things to qualify for blessings. Everyone. But even a perfect, sinless man, were that possible, could not have the priesthood prior to 1978 if he was of black African descent.
    And, for consideration also, women still cannot by virtue of being a woman. That, at least, would indeed be a legitimate comparison of ideas.
  25. Like
    The Folk Prophet got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Gays, blacks and the church   
    "appears" to be according to what...?
    FWIW I fully and completely reject this idea. I do not believe it to be biological. I believe there are biological traits that might incline one towards things that relate, but...
    Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that it were fully biological, unchangeable, etc. Then still...
    ...this is still not an apples to apples comparison. It's comparing a persons, due to their skin color, being unable to have the priesthood to a person, due to their tastes, being unable to indulge in their tastes while remaining faithful and in good standing in the church. The need to not indulge in tastes that are sinful is common to ALL people in the church. It is not exclusive to homosexuals. Some people have tastes that are further out of bounds than others. But we all have out of bounds tastes. I've been "punished" in the same way throughout my life by having to repress my nastier urges to stay in good standing in the church. Though I would think it should be obvious that calling that a "punishment" is kind of flawed.
    FWIW, mere "skin color" was not the issue at hand in the priesthood restriction. Lineage was. But I digress. There was nothing they could refrain from to get the priesthood. Everyone has to refrain from certain things to qualify for blessings. Everyone. But even a perfect, sinless man, were that possible, could not have the priesthood prior to 1978 if he was of black African descent.
    And, for consideration also, women still cannot by virtue of being a woman. That, at least, would indeed be a legitimate comparison of ideas.