Jane_Doe

There is not really an issue with it directly. 
But when you’re actively in that dark place, it’s very very VERY easy to feel like others talking at you are don’t “get it”. 

There is not really an issue with it directly. 
But when you’re actively in that dark place, it’s very very VERY easy to feel like others talking at you are don’t “get it”. 

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.
Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  
Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.
I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  
Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  
However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

Even if you passionately disagree with some big-picture school thing, making the classroom teacher's life hard is just childish.  Express your opinions in the correct venue, in a mature fashion, with people whom are actually responsible for the decision & can make a difference.  

Even if you passionately disagree with some big-picture school thing, making the classroom teacher's life hard is just childish.  Express your opinions in the correct venue, in a mature fashion, with people whom are actually responsible for the decision & can make a difference.  

I think the exact same thing and have the same questions about liberals.   
 
That said, I try to teach my children tolerance and good behavior.   

I think I'm actually friends with a few. Most happened when I entered the teacher world myself and they became less of past teachers and more of mentors/colleauges. 
Though I remember thinking "Facebook is suggesting I be friends with Mr. Sexy Rugged Badboy Teacher from decades ago because his wife hangs out with a friend of my grandma's as well as in my in-law's friend's stake"... is this weird?"

I remember the names of most of them.  For elementary, your teacher really influences a lot of the experience. That wanes more with middle and especially high school as other aspects grow in focus.  With exception for some high school teachers that really left a mark.  
But I also won’t be super upset hearing a teacher passed away- I just don’t get upset that way. There’s a few I might go to their funerals if I was in the same town. 

I remember the names of most of them.  For elementary, your teacher really influences a lot of the experience. That wanes more with middle and especially high school as other aspects grow in focus.  With exception for some high school teachers that really left a mark.  
But I also won’t be super upset hearing a teacher passed away- I just don’t get upset that way. There’s a few I might go to their funerals if I was in the same town. 

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.
Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  
Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.
I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  
Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  
However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.
Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  
Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.
I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  
Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  
However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

This.  I’ve never been diagnosed, but I can certainly get into funks now and then . . . And when I’m in one, I frankly resent anyone who suggests to me that it may be possible for me to eventually be pulled out of it.
I *suspect* that one of the really ticklish things about depression is that it plays with one’s head in such a way that when one has it, it becomes a downward spiral and one tends to resist  doing/hearing some of the things the things that could help alleviate the symptoms.  Not that one can or should be expected to merely “snap out of it”, of course; but there are things one can do that often help to varying degrees, and that the depression itself often dissuaded one from doing.  😞

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.
Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  
Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.
I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  
Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  
However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.
Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  
Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.
I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  
Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  
However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

I really appreciate that. I just feel overwhelmed right now. Prayers are always welcome. 👍

Thank you. Life is and always will be astruggle. We just keep on and do our best, right?

Oh, agreed.  There's really nothing objectionable about Luca.
- When you figure out you are different than everyone else, to an extreme that makes you wonder about your core identity, it is scary.
- It's normal for your parents and loved ones to not have the faintest clue what's up with you, and maybe act out in blundering ways that are at least unhelpful, at most dangerous to you.
- After you transform to your new state of being, it's normal for the people that see the 'new you' to react in fear, disgust, or violence.
- As you go back and forth between your two worlds, you can become lost as to who you actually are.
- The older kid who becomes your hero, who seems to have it all figured out, is probably carrying around his own unresolved crap too.
- You may find unexpected allies and foes, in unexpected places.
- In the end, staying true to yourself is your best bet.
- In the end, your parents and loved ones may even want to join you in transforming to new selves to be around the people in your new world.
I mean, I'm not Luca, I'm just a regular old landcrawling human.  When I get into the water, I just get wet, I don't transfer into a brightly colored sea creature (except on halloween).  But for all the Lucas of the world, it's a very very very relevant movie.   And pretty much every transgender person out there is a Luca.  And half the LGB folks too, depending on how they're raised.

I'm not sure that "translating Biblical text into 20th or 21st century English" is quite the same thing as "watering down the text for the least common denominator". As near as I can tell, most of Christianity takes Biblical translation and textual criticism quite seriously -- even when rendering the text in early 21st century English. While there are no doubt different philosophies at play, I would be careful generalizing that anything but the KJV is somehow watered down.

When non-members ask me "how can you believe in the Book of Mormon when we lack literal evidence of it being true from scientists?"
My response is to laugh and say "If I was a person whom required scripture to be super-literal-true-with-21st-century-scientific-take-on-things, then I would throw all Abrahamic faiths out the airlock based on Genesis alone.  There is so much of it that is blatantly shown to be false by modern science -- *if* your judgement of Truth is based on 21st century scientific interpretation.  For example: the world was not created in exactly 8,640 minutes (6 days).  Frankly, the people of ancient Israel were not counting minutes with this story-- counting minutes isn't the point!   Rather, the creation story is about God creating the Earth conveyed symbolically & His power.    I 100% believe the Creation story it is true, but in that symbolic interpretation that ancient people wrote/told it in, not 21st century minute-counting." 
And I could go on with other examples.  I don't believe people literally lived to 900+ years old.  Literally an entire global flood.  Etc.
Other parts of scripture I very strongly believe are literally true- such as Christ literally raising from the dead.
  Others I don't know the blend literal versus symbolism, such as the Garden of Eden.  Frankly, I don't really find that exact blend to matter on Eden or most other parts of scripture.  
 
 
Aside: speaking as somebody whom spent many years studying evolution and all-- science tells us how things occur.  Faith tells us why.  My job studying evolution and the natural workings of the world was me getting paid to be amazed at His craftsmanship.  Understanding just the tiniest fraction of it and marveling.  

When non-members ask me "how can you believe in the Book of Mormon when we lack literal evidence of it being true from scientists?"
My response is to laugh and say "If I was a person whom required scripture to be super-literal-true-with-21st-century-scientific-take-on-things, then I would throw all Abrahamic faiths out the airlock based on Genesis alone.  There is so much of it that is blatantly shown to be false by modern science -- *if* your judgement of Truth is based on 21st century scientific interpretation.  For example: the world was not created in exactly 8,640 minutes (6 days).  Frankly, the people of ancient Israel were not counting minutes with this story-- counting minutes isn't the point!   Rather, the creation story is about God creating the Earth conveyed symbolically & His power.    I 100% believe the Creation story it is true, but in that symbolic interpretation that ancient people wrote/told it in, not 21st century minute-counting." 
And I could go on with other examples.  I don't believe people literally lived to 900+ years old.  Literally an entire global flood.  Etc.
Other parts of scripture I very strongly believe are literally true- such as Christ literally raising from the dead.
  Others I don't know the blend literal versus symbolism, such as the Garden of Eden.  Frankly, I don't really find that exact blend to matter on Eden or most other parts of scripture.  
 
 
Aside: speaking as somebody whom spent many years studying evolution and all-- science tells us how things occur.  Faith tells us why.  My job studying evolution and the natural workings of the world was me getting paid to be amazed at His craftsmanship.  Understanding just the tiniest fraction of it and marveling.  

When non-members ask me "how can you believe in the Book of Mormon when we lack literal evidence of it being true from scientists?"
My response is to laugh and say "If I was a person whom required scripture to be super-literal-true-with-21st-century-scientific-take-on-things, then I would throw all Abrahamic faiths out the airlock based on Genesis alone.  There is so much of it that is blatantly shown to be false by modern science -- *if* your judgement of Truth is based on 21st century scientific interpretation.  For example: the world was not created in exactly 8,640 minutes (6 days).  Frankly, the people of ancient Israel were not counting minutes with this story-- counting minutes isn't the point!   Rather, the creation story is about God creating the Earth conveyed symbolically & His power.    I 100% believe the Creation story it is true, but in that symbolic interpretation that ancient people wrote/told it in, not 21st century minute-counting." 
And I could go on with other examples.  I don't believe people literally lived to 900+ years old.  Literally an entire global flood.  Etc.
Other parts of scripture I very strongly believe are literally true- such as Christ literally raising from the dead.
  Others I don't know the blend literal versus symbolism, such as the Garden of Eden.  Frankly, I don't really find that exact blend to matter on Eden or most other parts of scripture.  
 
 
Aside: speaking as somebody whom spent many years studying evolution and all-- science tells us how things occur.  Faith tells us why.  My job studying evolution and the natural workings of the world was me getting paid to be amazed at His craftsmanship.  Understanding just the tiniest fraction of it and marveling.  

I've made it far in life not entrenching myself into any particular opinion on such things.  I'm trying to make it to heaven, and if I get there and hear "we'll only let you in if you believe in literal six 24-hr day creative periods and worldwide flood with literal ark holding 2 of every species", I want to say "ok, sure". 
Or, if I get there and hear "entrance is only for folks bright enough to understand the realities of stellar formation and evolution across millennia, with an inspired book of scripture containing an awful lot of stuff that didn't actually happen, allegories and cultural stories passed down orally, and whatnot", I want to say "ok, sure".

1st thought: I find it difficult to talk about all of Genesis as one monolith. Even if we leave out "documentary hypothesis" issues, Genesis covers a lot of ground, from creation through the flood then the patriarchs and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I think some of the answers to questions about Genesis depend on which part of Genesis I am reading.
When it comes to the cosmology/creation portion, I find myself leaning heavily towards accepting that the creation account is "myth" -- and here I'm using "myth" the way Ben Spackman uses it (I find a lot of my current views on this are influenced by Spackman): https://benspackman.com/2020/04/science-and-history-as-myth-and-fiction-exploring-some-common-labels/ Recognize that, understanding "myth" in this way, modern science is also "myth" -- the way we explain how the world works.
Concordism (the efforts to make modern science "myth" concord with ancient, Biblical "myth") also figures heavily in my thinking -- specifically, I feel no need to make ancient and modern explanations for the way the world works agree with each other. The ancients can have their "flat disc earth sandwiched between the waters of heaven and hell" and I can have my Big Bang inspired universe (full of billions of "island universes") without needing to make the two "agree".
As for some of the specifics. I don't know how I would know if Eden existed. Considering the superlatives used to describe Eden, I don't see any place on Earth today that could measure up to those superlatives, so I am inclined to believe Eden is gone. Super continents have existed at times throughout Earth's geologic history, but the most recent one (Pangaea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercontinent) broke up before hominids appear in the fossil record, so I doubt that the break up of the Earth in Peleg's day could be referring to the breakup of a supercontinent (more likely to be a description of political division rather than geologic). I like Spackman's idea of a "cosmologic" flood rather than some kind of real global or even local flood.
In conclusion: is it possible to believe in the revelations of the Bible without "empirical" evidence? Probably depends entirely on what it means to believe in the revelations, but I have no problem believing in the revelations because, rejecting concordism as I do, I need no empirical evidence that these revelations must somehow concord with my cosmology. Should science and religion agree? When all is said and done, I expect them to agree, but, until then, I have no need for them to agree.

I don't know.  I leave myself open to the possibility of either, and focus on what I believe really matters like covenants.

Personally I believe that things described in the BOM and the bible actually happened, I just don't know the details.
I always look at the big picture. Would I lay my life down for a literal, six day creation? No. Would I lay my life down for Christ? Yup.