TalkativeIntrovert

There was a church video I saw a few years ago that might be interesting. I have no idea the name, but it was shown to us by the missionaries, so maybe some RM's might know it. It showed a beautiful family with a lovely home - all very clean and beautiful, it then showed dirt in the home each time someone allowed the wrong things into their homes (smoking, drinking, bad language, etc). It is hard with teens. My 3 are considered "goody 2 shoes" because they don't swear at school when all the other kids appear to. They are still happy to uphold that standard regardless of what others think, though who knows what pressure they will be under over the next few years? Interestingly, all their friends know that our house is friendly and clean and we don't allow language and bad behaviour. They are all willing to abide by our rules and enjoy coming over. Is there a problem with this amongst other boys at church? I know there is at our ward, I have heard the things some of the boys say and was horrified. So far my son thinks badly of their behaviour rather than emulate it. Point is, don't assume it is just school he may be getting it from. Good luck, it is hard work being a parent.

A slightly different slant to gossip .... I volunteered at the school canteen and breakfast club - ripe environment for gossip if ever there was one. There was 1 circumstance where I was gossiped to about a family where the step-dad was caught taking pics of one of the young teen daughters in the shower. My head exploded! Why is she being talked about rather than helped? Instant action, I organised a trailer and that mum and her girls were moved out by that weekend and she was directed to the police to report what had happened. Without that gossip, I don't know where that family would be at now. Gossip as a term has negative connotations, it implies people talking about others behind their back in a judgemental manner. I think the problem is with identifying what is gossip and what is conversation creating a community. I think a lot of it is intent as Anddenex said. We live in a large circuit, 1 way in and out, I know the neighbours on my side but not the other. I found out (through gossip?) that one of the neighbours on the other side had a heart attack (late 30's), he has a wife and child. I passed this information on to other neighbours with the intent that we can look out for the family and take meals over. They were very grateful for the support. Is that gossip?

I have a relative who has some of the traits you describe. A lot of one upmanship and it is very difficult to be around her. eg - my sister went on a family holiday to Tasmania. We were all together and I asked her about the holiday and asked to see the photos. The other relative jumps in and starts telling us about her holiday to the same place 10 years prior. Lots of comments about how she did it cheaper, saw more stuff, etc. It ended up being all about her and I didn't hear my sisters story. - One of my girls broke an arm a few months ago and the commentary at the next meet up was about how many breaks her children had. - At our housewarming dinner, I was showing everyone around the house and she had bought the plans of her house extensions with her and was trying to show them as we were walking! I have done what one of the posters above said, when she talks about an achievement, I congratulate and make a fuss. I ask her advice on things regardless of whether I really need it. Those simple things seem to give her attention and acknowledgement up front and calm her down so the occasion seems to flow a bit better. I have come to the conclusion (as have others) that she has inappropriate social skills. She was an only child and never learnt to share well. I have also found out that she felt inferior to my sister and I as we are/were very successful in our careers. So perhaps she tries to build herself up by doing these things? Anyway, once we got past the unwanted (in our opinion) behaviours, she is a very generous, warm hearted person. Regardless of the reason, she is in our family and in our lives and we look for ways to make it easier. A lot of our social group don't bother trying, and I can understand that too. In the case of this lady you have 2 separate issues. One if your interaction with her, and the other is her monopolising church activities. In regards to church activities, it sounds like the bishop needs to take a strong stance with her to allow others in. On the personal side, she is in your life, you can work on how you feel about her, or distance yourself if it is to painful for you.

That is my point. What is in the scriptures is not what the history is. So the criticism against the OP for not studying enough, or expecting to be spoon-fed, is invalid. No matter how much studying of the scriptures one may do, you will not find JS's polygamy. I have no comment either way on what JS did, or even polygamy/polyandry specifically, I just take issue with criticism rather than help if someone's knowledge is lacking. I know it is due to my own reasons - I still don't know a lot, am still learning and don't like being made to feel "less" because of it. Regardless of where each individual person is in regards to their knowledge, I am pretty sure no one knows everything perfectly.

This is the type of response that is turning me away from this board and one of the contributing factors for me becoming inactive a while back. When I went inactive, I was constantly feeling like I was never good enough and never knew enough. It seems if you don't know everything there is something wrong with you. This of course means you don't ask question for fear of looking like an idiot - and your learning stops. Not everyone can learn and understand everything from just reading a set of scriptures written in a language that may not be familiar. The kicker is that Joseph's wives are not in the scriptures.

My husband grew up in the church, I was converted, neither of us knew about this until I started reading a lot more on the internet.

I have a lot of doubts, in fact I do not believe certain parts of the teachings at all, but I reconcile what I do believe against what I don't and come up with my answer to stay in the church. Overriding all my doubts is the one big definite - I believe in God. After that, things may or may not be true, they may be literal or figurative, there may be mistakes in history, there may be all sorts of things - but none of that matters as right now, in my life, The number 1 article of faith says it all: 1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

We often get Polynesian missionaries and I can totally agree with this comment, though the tiny Japanese missionary that ate 6 chicken schnitzels will go down in our history books! Thanks for the suggestions, I am keeping a list of these great ideas for feeding a larger group as we normally have them all over at once (there are currently 8), so my kitchen wouldn't cope with just adding extra to our normal meals. So far: - Baked Potato Bar - breakfast for dinner - Burger Cookout (I assume this is the Aussie BBQ) I have done Mexican help yourself nights where I make a big batch of meat and have all the salad and accompaniments on a table with Taco shells and wraps. Also Curry nights (not too hot) and serve rice, wraps and salads. I am terrible at making pizza dough and our oven is small, so will skip that one :) I prefer to offer them a help yourself style of meal so they can avoid things they don't like.

When you went to members houses for a meal, what type of meals did you appreciate most? I keep asking the missionaries what they would like and they always respond that they are happy for anything. There has only been 1 missionary brave enough to say that he loved simple home cooked food rather than pasta and take away pizza. Apparently a lot of families have 2 working parents so pizza is easy, I can relate to that, but I have the time and the inclination to cook whatever they want, I just don't know what they want and they aren't telling me!

What would I do? I would ask how I can meet the needs (as I don't know which things to change) and do it. We are fortunate enough to live in a world where there are options, if there is an option to help I would take it and be happy that I could help someone else. I have had to give up work as the combination of air conditioner, fluorescent lights and focussing for extended periods of time causes migraines that last for up to 5 days and for my muscles to go into spasm around my eyes and I go blind. I have to wear sunglasses nearly everywhere and wear a cap at all times, a pretty hat doesn't work as I need the tightness around my head. I have had some horrible comments, not from church members thankfully, and some insensitive behaviours around me and have used them as teaching opportunities (whether they like it or not :) ) I did not attend church for a long time as it is the same environment as work. Thankfully, I have worked with Bishop and I now have a the lights off in the overflow area and designated seating just for our family in the dark. When I need to, I go outside. I still get headaches, but they aren't so bad. Funny, there are a lot of people in the overflow joining us now as the muted lighting seems more calming on the children. We have created nut free areas, egg free areas and cater for coeliacs with sacrament bread, we have ramps for the less mobile and take sacrament to those unable to attend. I don't see why we can't try and help with this issue as well. Maybe we would all be healthier if we reduced the chemicals in our environment. Perhaps a combination of most people helping, and wearing a mask, will work. To be honest I have been pretty disgusted lately about the attitudes of a couple of ladies in the RS in our ward. We were assigned the task of making lunches for the stake YW camp, I happily agreed to assist. The menu was egg rolls, fruit and biscuits. A lot of kids are allergic to eggs these days and a lot simply don't like them. I mentioned this and suggested that maybe we do half egg and half something simple like vegemite, or at least offer an alternative. It would make no difference to our workload. The comment received back was that those with allergies need to take their own food, and those that don't like it can starve. These girls are doing hikes and other activities that mean they need sustenance. When making the egg mix, this particular sister added so much pepper that I don't think I could have eaten it despite loving pepper. The biscuits that were made were peanut butter cookies - thankfully someone stopped that one from happening. It didn't seem like much Christ like love happening there at all and I was embarrassed to be a part of it. I was glad my daughters weren't at that camp. Edited to add that they YW were told not take extra food unless they had allergies and it was arranged with the leaders. So they were trapped in an isolated area with no other options.

There is a big difference between a 10 yr old and a teen. Exposure to the big bad world comes in stages appropriate to the child's development. Sure, if a mission aged teen/young adult has not had exposure to the world there may be something wrong There may also be a difference in views/trust levels between recent converts and church born people at play here. When you have been exposed yourself to the unsavoury elements in society (and even if you haven't), it is natural to not immediately trust someone in the situation described (1:1, sexual talk). This does not mean you are hanging off your child and not letting them grow in other areas. It means you are being cautious in this particular scenario. As for scouts, I had a situation where I observed a scout masters doing what I suspect was grooming a child. I actually thought she was his child to start with, when I found out she wasn't, that set off alarm bells. When he found an opportunity to be alone with her (she had an allergic reaction to something and couldn't go on a hike with the rest of the troop), I insisted that it was proper to have me stay back at the camp as well. He tried to talk me and the other scout leader out of it, I refused to budge as I had a bad feeling. Whilst we were at the camp waiting for the parent to pick up the child he tried to get me to leave the common area to go and check out tents or toilets or something. Again I refused to leave him alone with the child. He actually tried to bully me into it. Whilst nothing happened, I truly believe it was only because I stayed at camp. I reported it, but did not hear the outcome. Being in the scouts and/or the church does not mean immunity from abuse. Being in the Scouts and Church are good things and shouldn't be hindered by personal experiences or anecdotes, but it doesn't mean you have to trust completely. Putting procedures in place to protect your child makes sense until you can develop trust in the church/leaders and that the child does have all the tools to deal with anything that may happen.

I have always had the option of being in the interviews with my children. I have left it up to the child to decide if they want either of their parents there. Sometimes they have, sometimes they haven't. Regardless, we are always close by. It helps that we have known the Bishop and his family for a long time - even before joining the church. I totally understand where you are coming from in regards to a relative stranger discussing sexuality 1:1 with a child. You are right - anyone who thinks that abuse does not happen under these situation is being naïve. Even without the fear of abuse, I would like to know what is being discussed so I can be there to answer any questions that may come up. I wrote a post recently as my son (13) was interviewed for the position of Deacon's Quorum President. He was not asked about masturbation, pornography, etc he was simply asked if he was following the law of chastity and he said yes. That is as it should be (though his understanding was incorrect and we are correcting that). Perhaps it is more easy going here in Australia, from some of the experiences I have read on this board and others, I believe so. Re Seanette's questions about when children are with others, I can't recall any occasion where my children have been left completely alone with another adult. There have always been other children or adults around. Schools have policies that do not allow closed door 1:1. In regards to scouting, I always volunteered to be the female parent support when my children were on camp. Now they are older I am not as concerned, but at 10 I was very concerned. This is a totally valid concern, I hope you get the outcome you want.

The issue in our family is not being part of the church for long and only recently being active. Son was baptised last year at 12, he had the missionary lessons, and it either wasn't made clear there, or he ignored it! I have taught him, and the other children about sexuality, along the lines of the sex ed at school, and the special sex ed classes held outside school hours, he knows exactly what all those things are, the thing he did not understand is the tie in with the law of chastity. We have always been open with them from when they could talk basically. He gets embarrassed, as do my girls, regardless of how open we have been. I was the same as a teen, I don't think it is uncommon to not want to talk about sexual matters with your parents. Doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they are uncomfortable. With teaching church doctrine at home, I feel that without reinforcement at church, it is ineffective and vice versa. We have had a FHE lesson on The Law of Chastity, but obviously it wasn't enough and perhaps with no church back up lesson it didn't sink in. Our FHE lessons tend to be a waste of time anyway as there is a problem with sabotage, but that's another story. I find myself often talking about "What the church believes", "What seems to be the norm in society" and how that fits together. Often, I don't even know if I have that right - and often I find my personal views different to the "church way" and in conflict at how to reconcile. In relief society this week the lesson was modesty. I related how when I was investigating and was newly converted that lesson would have been beneficial as I was wearing inappropriate clothing to church and I wasn't aware. I asked the sister missionaries in the room if they taught that lesson and they said they do include it but the male missionaries often didn't as they were uncomfortable. That leaves a lot of people with an incomplete knowledge of a subject that would make them fit in better and feel more comfortable. Interestingly, I have spoken to my inactive, church born husband about some of these things and asked him why he didn't tell me about the clothing at least - he said he didn't know about it! So the bottom line is that our family has no idea. It is pretty hard to teach your children correctly when we (I) don't have the knowledge ourselves. That is why I have higher expectations of the teachings at church. Obviously I am wrong there. Visiting teachers are not effective in our family (before anyone suggest them!) as they seem to focus solely on trying to bring my husband back to church - regardless of what we tell them about his stance. So it seems from the responses here, and my observations, this is a convert issue rather than a born-into-the-church issue. Which leads me to believe that I am not the only one with these types of issues, and gives me a better understanding of why my son didn't know. Thanks for all the feedback!

Interesting discussion with son(13) this week. He was set apart as the Deacon's Quorum President. So he had the interview with Bishop and must have passed (phew!). After it was done, I asked him what he was going to do now, ie what are his responsibilities. He had no idea! He had signed up to something with no knowledge of what it entailed. So now I must set aside some time to discuss with him about perhaps finding out a few details, or even just a summary, before agreeing to do something. The other thing is that I asked him what his understanding of the Law of Chastity was, as he had answered the question that he was obeying this law. He said it was not having sex outside of marriage and not looking at pictures of people naked. That was it. I told him that it was a bit more than that and that it also included being modest, masturbation and keeping your thoughts wholesome. He was very embarrassed and horrified, possibly more because I was speaking to him about it, rather than the content. We have missed a lot of church for varying reasons, but I am surprised of his understanding of this law. Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts? Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

I believe that pre-teens and teens start acting like that so as to prepare you, and them, for them leaving home.... If they were perfect angels you wouldn't want to let them go. eg I have been cleaning out cupboards and getting rid of kitchen equipment I don't use (electric knife, mortar and pestle that is too small, cheese grated I have always hated, frozen push pop icy things that the kids have outgrown, salad server set that I never liked), son (13) has beavered them away for when he leaves home. Daughters (15) can't understand why he wants to leave home. Son is "difficult" can't understand why things don't go his way all the time, wont compromise (or even listen to explanations), has moments of being the most lovable/loving boy on earth, then moments that are quite opposite. Daughters are "easy", willing to discuss things through to a conclusion/compromise, helpful without being asked, etc. Son already has his dorm room lined up at the university, daughters can't understand why he would spend money on accommodation when we are a 20 minute bus ride away. No doubt the dynamic will all change by the time they finish school anyway, but I will be very glad for the moping, pouting and arguing to be over!