Quin

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Articles of Faith 1Â*
Q

Ditto JAG.
In addition... I choose which rules I break very carefully.
Whether they're breeches of etiquette (like putting my elbows on the table), societal constructs (sitting on a table, or walking outside in a bathrobe that covers more than the clothes I wear), other people's rules (including laws), my own rules, church rules, church law...
The rules I choose to break, I do so knowingly/willingly/for a good reason.
I do not (usually) repent of them.
I may periodically regret the consequences, but my judgement is USUALLY sound... So given the same situation all over again, I'd do just the same thing.
To ME, any kind of formal confession is part and parcel with repentance.
If I would do the same thing, in fact PLAN on doing the same thing, much less judge it to be the right choice: that's not repentance.
Would I admit to breaking the rule? Sure.
Confession & Truth are two totally different things.
I would only confess something I do not repant if it were something I was struggling with not doing.
As an example:
For ME, I'd throw my deck down and race to class, purposefully breaking that rule... Because it was worth it for me to not be late. I've done it before, would do it again. No confession necessary. I'm choosing to break a rule.
However:
If I didn't even KNOW I'd thrown my deck down, and kept catching myself breaking a rule on accident? Was actively trying not to break the rule?
Then I'd be in the process of repentance. Would consider confession (not every durn time, but periodic sum ups of my progress).
Some people confess every single minor wrong they've committed
I'm not in that camp... I am, instead, a proponent of personal accountability.
Church Rule, Church Law... Those I owe an explanation or admission to.
Personal Rules... I may share. It depends on whether or not I am actually struggling / it is affecting or reflecting upon my spiritual progression.
Q

In terms of formal confession, the only thing I'd feel is absolutely necessary to confess is the LoC violation--and then, only if it happened between your baptismal interview and the baptism itself.
 
The other infractions you bring up don't necessarily require formal ecclesiastical confession in and of themselves; but your bringing them up here suggests maybe you feel your spiritual development isn't quite going in the direction you want it to go--and that's certainly something your bishop might have some good advice about.

I'll sit on the fence on this one.
On the one hand, your Bishop could be a creep.
On the other hand, your daughter could be doing the obnoxious teen girl thing.
No way for me to know the difference.
On the one hand, that's exactly what a Bishop is FOR, a trusted adult with whom to share things one might share with no one else (teacher, doctor, counselor, priest are the Big4, right?). So it's not only natural, but required by the job description to fully understand the details of what is at play.
On the other hand, there are teachers, doctors, counselor so & priests who cross the line. In a variety of ways.
On the one hand, The teens could be all over the recording because it's salacious and Herbert the Pervert
On the other hand, the teens could be all,over this purely because it's taboo (Catholic teens often have groups of (usually girls) make bets on how flustered they can get their priest in Confession (or Mass, etc. It's so culturally expected -frowned upon / unacceptable,, but expected you'll see reference in movies all the time. Like in a League of their Own when "May" gets her priest to drop his bible 4 times in one confession).
I could do this all day.
It's neither inherantly wrong, nor inherantly right, from what you've described.
Your daughter is also neither inherantly wrong, or inherantly right from what you're described (esp if she's creeped out by your Bishop).
Q

It's not my intent to argue with you on this...However, consider how many children are groomed, abused, and violated by adults in positions of power over them.
While the teen in question may be obnoxious and over the line, it may also have absolutely nothing to do with manners & appropriate behavior, at all. It may have to do with the teen protecting herself.
((Which is why I'm on the fence, since it could be either.))
I can't even count the number of cases I know of teens who DO record all their interactions with certain individuals that they don't feel safe around. It infuriates the police in my area, since I live in a "consent state" (meaning the person has to consent to being recorded, or it's I admissible in court). 100+ audio files of increasingly aggressive conversation, culminating in the 101st (or 112th, or 172nd, etc.) in a violent rape or assault. NONE of which can be used in court. None of the "grooming" conversations, none of the lewd conduct, and NOT EVEN the assault itself. Which is the part that drives police insane. A recorded violent crime doesn't have a loophole in the law. Unless the criminal agrees to it, the recording cannot be used against them. So they walk. And go abuse more kids.
Since teens want to be self sufficient, or -worse- are smart enough to know that few people are going to believe them about a pervy teacher/priest/doctor/coach/etc... They think these recordings make them safe. It gives them a level of control over a situation they feel otherwise powerless in. Sharing them with their friends, adds another level of control. It makes them FEEL safe, even when they're not.
...OR...
It could be, as you say, a seriously obnoxious brat.
...OR...
3rd option, is that she's been either groomed or assaulted by a DIFFERENT adult in her life, and is now hypervigilent & overreactingwith others, like her Bishop. Which means she has more than enough cause / it's understandable WHY she'd be doing this with someone who isn't vile and dangerous. Making both her and the bishop innocent of true wrongdoing. Like pooping in your boss's car. It's not okay in the general sense... But if you've become violently ill or have just been in a car wreck and your sphincters all relax due to sudden pain & trauma. Still a mess to be cleaned up, but it's an understandable mess, with cause. As opposed to sauntering out and having a squat because you don't like your boss. Which would be what she's done if she's being a brat. But if she's been assaulted and is overreacting... Then there would be cause.
________
All of the above is why I'm not arguing with you... For it could be as you say. Which is not funny at all.
But it could also be her trying to keep herself safe.
Q

If it's been 6 months ... I would have to suggest you're not going to just get over feeling badly.
Which leads me to suspect that EITHER what he said was true OR that it's something you work hard doing the opposite.
The first one is the hardest, so I'll table it for the moment.
If it isn't true:
The second one has an intermediary step... Which is to meet with him and point out exactly how untrue what he said was.
At that point he can either decide to believe you, or not... But either way the miscommunication is dealt with & the problem begun to be addressed.
Ahem. Which is another thing... He may be completely unaware that it has affected you as much as it has. Oftentimes things that bother me not at all, send others into fizzles, and vice versa. Not being mind readers, we generally don't know how much something we've said or done has affected someone... Yep. Even if they react strongly in the moment. It's not uncommon to have someone bawling in your office one minute (as a boss, or a teacher, or ANY position of authority... So I suspect it's the same for bishops), and then cracking jokes, working hard, totally fine the next. In fact, in some jobs, it's expected that a person may break down on the 1:1, and then be fine, better, best as soon as they're no longer 1:1.
So while you may be simply gutted over this statement, it may very well be possible that he's clueless it's affected you this much, for this long. He may not even remember saying XYZ to you after this long, or have even meant something totally different.
To be clear, since you were leaving the actual incident out I have no idea what it's about or how memorable it is in the scheme of things. So the above is just fairly generic what ifs and could bes. I'm not saying he did forget, or meant something different, and he may well be aware how much it's affected you. Or not. No way to tell without talking to him, or more detail.
If it IS true...
Then you've got some simpler options: sort it and move on.
Yeah. I said simpler, not easier, unfortunately. The simple things are always the most difficult.
Q

I'll sit on the fence on this one.
On the one hand, your Bishop could be a creep.
On the other hand, your daughter could be doing the obnoxious teen girl thing.
No way for me to know the difference.
On the one hand, that's exactly what a Bishop is FOR, a trusted adult with whom to share things one might share with no one else (teacher, doctor, counselor, priest are the Big4, right?). So it's not only natural, but required by the job description to fully understand the details of what is at play.
On the other hand, there are teachers, doctors, counselor so & priests who cross the line. In a variety of ways.
On the one hand, The teens could be all over the recording because it's salacious and Herbert the Pervert
On the other hand, the teens could be all,over this purely because it's taboo (Catholic teens often have groups of (usually girls) make bets on how flustered they can get their priest in Confession (or Mass, etc. It's so culturally expected -frowned upon / unacceptable,, but expected you'll see reference in movies all the time. Like in a League of their Own when "May" gets her priest to drop his bible 4 times in one confession).
I could do this all day.
It's neither inherantly wrong, nor inherantly right, from what you've described.
Your daughter is also neither inherantly wrong, or inherantly right from what you're described (esp if she's creeped out by your Bishop).
Q

Not with teen girls. The worse it is, the more likely it is to go viral. Either herself, in a way to get her own back... Or via a friend doing the same thing,,, or a frenemy doing the public shaming girl-fight-vicious-backstab, that she can either get crushed under, or claim credit for. Teen girl culture is vicious. And often completely opposite of how those same young women will act for the next 80 years. Once they grow up.
Granted,.. A lot of teen girls WILL hide in shame... But a huge portion make sure to tell every person they meet take photos, post them on an open website, practically hold a parade in town square... And hen completely FREAK OUT (You're invading my PRIVACY!!!) the moment an adult calls them on the sky writing, billboards, & ticker tape parade.
Q

Not with teen girls. The worse it is, the more likely it is to go viral. Either herself, in a way to get her own back... Or via a friend doing the same thing,,, or a frenemy doing the public shaming girl-fight-vicious-backstab, that she can either get crushed under, or claim credit for. Teen girl culture is vicious. And often completely opposite of how those same young women will act for the next 80 years. Once they grow up.
Granted,.. A lot of teen girls WILL hide in shame... But a huge portion make sure to tell every person they meet take photos, post them on an open website, practically hold a parade in town square... And hen completely FREAK OUT (You're invading my PRIVACY!!!) the moment an adult calls them on the sky writing, billboards, & ticker tape parade.
Q

I wonder how FAST I'd be with really BIG feet.
Every once in awhile I stick my teensy tiny (stubby little knobs on the ends of my legs) feet into my son's or my dad's shoes, and am just stunned. The LEVERAGE I'd have to push off the ground with dogs like those! Whoa. Mind. Blowing.
Q

It's not my intent to argue with you on this...However, consider how many children are groomed, abused, and violated by adults in positions of power over them.
While the teen in question may be obnoxious and over the line, it may also have absolutely nothing to do with manners & appropriate behavior, at all. It may have to do with the teen protecting herself.
((Which is why I'm on the fence, since it could be either.))
I can't even count the number of cases I know of teens who DO record all their interactions with certain individuals that they don't feel safe around. It infuriates the police in my area, since I live in a "consent state" (meaning the person has to consent to being recorded, or it's I admissible in court). 100+ audio files of increasingly aggressive conversation, culminating in the 101st (or 112th, or 172nd, etc.) in a violent rape or assault. NONE of which can be used in court. None of the "grooming" conversations, none of the lewd conduct, and NOT EVEN the assault itself. Which is the part that drives police insane. A recorded violent crime doesn't have a loophole in the law. Unless the criminal agrees to it, the recording cannot be used against them. So they walk. And go abuse more kids.
Since teens want to be self sufficient, or -worse- are smart enough to know that few people are going to believe them about a pervy teacher/priest/doctor/coach/etc... They think these recordings make them safe. It gives them a level of control over a situation they feel otherwise powerless in. Sharing them with their friends, adds another level of control. It makes them FEEL safe, even when they're not.
...OR...
It could be, as you say, a seriously obnoxious brat.
...OR...
3rd option, is that she's been either groomed or assaulted by a DIFFERENT adult in her life, and is now hypervigilent & overreactingwith others, like her Bishop. Which means she has more than enough cause / it's understandable WHY she'd be doing this with someone who isn't vile and dangerous. Making both her and the bishop innocent of true wrongdoing. Like pooping in your boss's car. It's not okay in the general sense... But if you've become violently ill or have just been in a car wreck and your sphincters all relax due to sudden pain & trauma. Still a mess to be cleaned up, but it's an understandable mess, with cause. As opposed to sauntering out and having a squat because you don't like your boss. Which would be what she's done if she's being a brat. But if she's been assaulted and is overreacting... Then there would be cause.
________
All of the above is why I'm not arguing with you... For it could be as you say. Which is not funny at all.
But it could also be her trying to keep herself safe.
Q

Shepard... I have to ask... what was your response the very first time your daughter told you that the bishop creeped her out?
 
Did you blow off her concerns? (at least in her mind).  Or did you talk to her and try to figure out what was bothering her?  (Again this was the very first time)
 
As parents we need to take signs that our kids have issues with other adults that we would consider "Trusted" very seriously.  Maybe it is just a personality clash, maybe its just a teenage rebellion thing, but in this day in age were we are very much aware of child predators and we can't expect a child to bring forth concerns and then not listen when they do.
 
To me this sound very much like a "your not listening so I will make everyone listen" kind of response.
 
I have not heard the recording but since you have and you aren't calling for the bishop's head and I going to assume that this is a parent/child issue with the bishop being caught in the middle.  And since you are the adult you need to take charge in fixing it.

While I agree with most here that the bishop is probably the greater victim here that the child, I would caution you against entirely dismissing your daughter's concerns.  While it is possible and likely that some level of discipline (not necessarily church discipline) will need to be levied against your daughter, it needs to be done with respect to how she went about addressing her concerns.  While doing that, you should also acknowledge her concerns and validate her feelings on the subjects. The goal needs to be teaching her how to respond to these matters appropriately. 
 
And to put a fine point on it, this should have been done two years ago.
 
I can sympathize with your daughter on her feelings about the bishop's interviews with the youth being uncomfortable and potentially inappropriate.  You need to find out what aspects of the interviews make her uncomfortable and help her define limits on what are and are not appropriate questions for her bishop to ask her.  If she feels uncomfortable answering a question, she has every right to say "I'm not comfortable with that question."  She also needs to know that if her bishop is unaccepting of that, she has the right to get up and walk out.  After doing so, she should go to you, the parent, to discuss what just happened.  
 
Then it needs to be made abundantly clear that the way in which she handled this was childish and rude.  Making the recording alone may be illegal, depending on your state.  
 
On the bishop's side of things, I see a couple of issues that he may need to address in himself.  First, he needs to spend more time with these young women.  He needs to attend classes with them, mutual activities, visit the families in their homes, if necessary.  And he needs to get to know every child in Primary that will be in the youth program within the next two years.  If he doesn't already have a relationship with these youth where they are comfortable talking to him by the time they turn 12, he's compromising his ability to serve them (that's an 'easier-said-than-done' thing).  But that fact that your daughter was able to stage a revolt with nine girls at the age of 13 tells me that the majority of them had similar feelings about the interviews.  That's a problem.
 
Second, he needs to rethink the level of detail necessary when pursuing people's transgressions.  While calling the police with respect to this interview may be overkill, the school psychologist is doing her job, which is to protect the child from potential abuse.  If a professional psychologist is concerned at the level of detail brought up in this interview, I think it warrants some review*.  Also, let's keep in perspective that the psychologist's concern is the level of detail he was asking for while alone with a young girl.  There is an age and power imbalance in this situation that is ripe for abuse and it's generally in the best interests of all parties for someone to be present in the discussion that can normalize that imbalance.
 
It's a crappy situation you're in, and I don't envy you.  But I'm hesitant to go all crazy over what your daughter did.  Her actions are a symptom of deeper issues, and it is those issues that you need to work to understand and address.
 
 
* To be fair, bishops receive almost no training about this, which is something I think really ought to change.  

Well we do know that there are other talents and gifts. And there are a few compelling cases... but for the most part what you're going to run into is gona be fraud... or the wrong kind of spirits.

Consider for a moment that as LDS we believe in God, a Holy Spirit, and angels etc... All of which can be considered supernatural, all of which we believe can and does reach out and guide us from time to time.
 
We also believe in Satan, and his followers... All of which can be considered supernatural, all of which we believe can and does reach out and tries to influence us from time to time.
 
So the question isn't really can we have an supernatural influence in our lives... the question becomes what is the source of that influence?  And when you think about it then you can understand the LDS church's position.   Tarot cards, psychics and other such things may be nothing but a sham (most probably are) but on the off chance they connect to something supernatural.... well we have every reason not to trust source of such a power, because its not the way God tells us he is going to work.

LOL... I had it on the old version! Although, it took me awhile to find it there, too (read: months).
This new version stabilized on my tablet about 2 weeks ago.
Until then I had to zoom in and out a lot to find things. (Still have to zoom out until the forum is about 3" across a 9" screen for the log in button, but almost everything else is available. Except text options. Have to code italics and bold manually. I bet there's a button panel that will crop up eventually during one of the updates that others can access in other formats, it's probably just further offscreen than the log in button!).
I don't know... I've been through a lot of launches... And this one went off near flawless, all things considered.
I've got about 98% of what I think is out there... And finding the rest is fun.
Shazaam! New content button! Awesome!
<grin> and since I've got preteens & teens... I take eye rolls at how slow I am as a victory parade.
Eye rolls and snickering mean I'm not hopeless, yet!
When we get to the detailed instructions, written in short words, on a concerned face full of love...
Then I worry.
Q

It's been around a lot longer than just a week or two.  It was around on the IP board version and when that went away was available on the full version.

When I die I shall finally overcome my oxygen addiction.

I found this for under $10K.  It's a 2007 Chevy Express 12-passenger.  I guess I solved this string.  Yay me!
 

If you are basing your decision of the number of kids to have on practicality... then the answer is zero.  Kids are not practical...
 
The decision on the number of kids is based on other things..  with hopefully practicality having a word or two to say

Snickering extremely loudly.

As the heads up: I'm the "Yep. Get divorced. Yesterday." person on this board.
(The lovely & brilliant Annatess my foil).
My three cents?
1) Your husband deserves someone who loves him. If that's not you, please stop wasting his time, and making him feel terrible in the interim.
2) Take all the blame squarely OFF your child's shoulders. YOU control your child's diet & exercise& medical regime. Worrying that "at this rate he'll be 400 pounds by college" totally abdicates all parental responsibility, while blaming your husband for your failure to act. Don't do that. Good diet, good activity & if it's a glandular disorder, take him to the durn doctor and get his levels stabilized!
3) Some genetic lines (think Viking & Polynesian & Russian wrestling) spawn BIG people. Big HEALTHY people, so long as they keep their activity up. 350 pounds of "Never gonna be ripped like Batman, but I can make a quarterback wish they were never born" fast, strong, HEALTHY. These people are never going to be the nimble thin runners you see darting all over. These people WILL be the TANKS in underarmor (and other stretchy clothes, cause tailoring custom clothes is expensive, and their size isn't sold off the rack) who have to replace "flimsy" shoes and furniture on a biannual basis, as they make you giggle with their terminator impressions. I knew a few of these guys in the Marine Corps. (350+ pounds of grizzly bear ya never never never wanna face in a fight). Football, & hockey players, & wrestlers the lot of them. Even running 3 miles under 18 minutes 5 times a week, with about 20 hours of gym time, and 40+ hours of constant motion...my hese guys never thinned out like the rest of us. 15-20 years later... I still know a couple of them. Those who have stayed active (physically), playing sports every day, cops on the street, gym teachers, etc... Are still as healthy (and TANKS) at 40 as they were at 20. Those who moved into desk jobs & non movement? Well... They waddle a bit. If they manage to stand much at all.
You met a BIG physically active guy in college. Whatever his diet & exercise program was... It was obviously working for him, as he was playing college ball. You've tried to completely change his diet, and clearly that hasn't been helpful. Have you considered encouraging your husband to go back to what WAS working? Eat as he was... But go back to training. Do something he LOVES, and is good at, and kept him fit.
__________
Ahem. As a former athlete: I need 10,000-15,000 calories a day when training. Of I don't have that level, my body starts to eat itself. We're not talking "lose weight". We're talking bone loss, organ damage, heart damage. I also start stacking on weight (because my body hoarders calories) if I'm eating too few calories when exercising. It looks INSANE to people who aren't doing similar training (I remember my family -all athletes- snickering at people with jaws dropped over Michael Phelps talking about the 10k-20k he eats, all whipcord thin). In the military? Your rations depend on your environment. I never worked in the desert, I worked in mountains & jungle. Our rations were 6,000 kcal per package. 3x-5x per day. Yep. For some exercises we were stoking 30,000 calories a day. (The army moves on its stomach).
Just some food for thought.
Q

As the heads up: I'm the "Yep. Get divorced. Yesterday." person on this board.
(The lovely & brilliant Annatess my foil).
My three cents?
1) Your husband deserves someone who loves him. If that's not you, please stop wasting his time, and making him feel terrible in the interim.
2) Take all the blame squarely OFF your child's shoulders. YOU control your child's diet & exercise& medical regime. Worrying that "at this rate he'll be 400 pounds by college" totally abdicates all parental responsibility, while blaming your husband for your failure to act. Don't do that. Good diet, good activity & if it's a glandular disorder, take him to the durn doctor and get his levels stabilized!
3) Some genetic lines (think Viking & Polynesian & Russian wrestling) spawn BIG people. Big HEALTHY people, so long as they keep their activity up. 350 pounds of "Never gonna be ripped like Batman, but I can make a quarterback wish they were never born" fast, strong, HEALTHY. These people are never going to be the nimble thin runners you see darting all over. These people WILL be the TANKS in underarmor (and other stretchy clothes, cause tailoring custom clothes is expensive, and their size isn't sold off the rack) who have to replace "flimsy" shoes and furniture on a biannual basis, as they make you giggle with their terminator impressions. I knew a few of these guys in the Marine Corps. (350+ pounds of grizzly bear ya never never never wanna face in a fight). Football, & hockey players, & wrestlers the lot of them. Even running 3 miles under 18 minutes 5 times a week, with about 20 hours of gym time, and 40+ hours of constant motion...my hese guys never thinned out like the rest of us. 15-20 years later... I still know a couple of them. Those who have stayed active (physically), playing sports every day, cops on the street, gym teachers, etc... Are still as healthy (and TANKS) at 40 as they were at 20. Those who moved into desk jobs & non movement? Well... They waddle a bit. If they manage to stand much at all.
You met a BIG physically active guy in college. Whatever his diet & exercise program was... It was obviously working for him, as he was playing college ball. You've tried to completely change his diet, and clearly that hasn't been helpful. Have you considered encouraging your husband to go back to what WAS working? Eat as he was... But go back to training. Do something he LOVES, and is good at, and kept him fit.
__________
Ahem. As a former athlete: I need 10,000-15,000 calories a day when training. Of I don't have that level, my body starts to eat itself. We're not talking "lose weight". We're talking bone loss, organ damage, heart damage. I also start stacking on weight (because my body hoarders calories) if I'm eating too few calories when exercising. It looks INSANE to people who aren't doing similar training (I remember my family -all athletes- snickering at people with jaws dropped over Michael Phelps talking about the 10k-20k he eats, all whipcord thin). In the military? Your rations depend on your environment. I never worked in the desert, I worked in mountains & jungle. Our rations were 6,000 kcal per package. 3x-5x per day. Yep. For some exercises we were stoking 30,000 calories a day. (The army moves on its stomach).
Just some food for thought.
Q

LOL... I would suspect its because the colonies had unlimited land/ property... Just build on it, defend it, and it's yours. Heck. Montana STILL has homesteading.
Meanwhile the sum total of the UK has, at various points, been in the hands of the aristocracy. Whether the Kings land, or the hereditary Lord's the K/Q has given it to, or even in later years when estates were bought and sold... We plebs couldn't own property ourselves. We lived at the discretion of our (literal) land-lord.
Even long after those documents were written and even -to an EXTENT- today,.. Property holding in the UK proper can get pretty dicey. England/Wales/Scotland/Ireland are pretty small islands. Granted the commonwealth extends to Canada & Australia, so it's not desperate like it once was, and even when the US constitution was drawn up, feudalism had already been done away with, so it wasn't as bad as it had been.
________
I think 3 is an English (spoken language) thing. It has a certain ring. Be it friends, Romans, countrymen... Or Life, liberty, & the ___________... It sits well in our hearts & minds. The original sound byte. Longer than 3 requires music or rhyme to have the same bang.
Other languages have other number combos. Or different linguistic tricks to make them memorable/meaningful.
Even old English used a different meter. Beowulf (one of my favs!) splits lines in half, and alliterates them.
_______
So.... Yah. I suspect pragmatism & prose.
Q

LOL... I would suspect its because the colonies had unlimited land/ property... Just build on it, defend it, and it's yours. Heck. Montana STILL has homesteading.
Meanwhile the sum total of the UK has, at various points, been in the hands of the aristocracy. Whether the Kings land, or the hereditary Lord's the K/Q has given it to, or even in later years when estates were bought and sold... We plebs couldn't own property ourselves. We lived at the discretion of our (literal) land-lord.
Even long after those documents were written and even -to an EXTENT- today,.. Property holding in the UK proper can get pretty dicey. England/Wales/Scotland/Ireland are pretty small islands. Granted the commonwealth extends to Canada & Australia, so it's not desperate like it once was, and even when the US constitution was drawn up, feudalism had already been done away with, so it wasn't as bad as it had been.
________
I think 3 is an English (spoken language) thing. It has a certain ring. Be it friends, Romans, countrymen... Or Life, liberty, & the ___________... It sits well in our hearts & minds. The original sound byte. Longer than 3 requires music or rhyme to have the same bang.
Other languages have other number combos. Or different linguistic tricks to make them memorable/meaningful.
Even old English used a different meter. Beowulf (one of my favs!) splits lines in half, and alliterates them.
_______
So.... Yah. I suspect pragmatism & prose.
Q