Snow

Banned
  • Posts

    7235
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Snow

  1. Now you are acting like acting like I don't have scriptures or know what they say.

    Why are you doing that?

    ... And no, it doesn't matter how you view scripture. What I posted is factually true regardless. Besides which, what the scriptures say has little or nothing to do with my point. Did you even read the thread?

  2. Now this is an argument for argument's sake. We may as well ask that you conclusively demonstrate that there is no such personage as Satan. Either way, it cannot be done. just as it cannot be done that one can conclusively demonstrate that Heavenly Father is real, or the Atonement is real. That, in and of itself, goes against the definition of faith. That comment just puts out there that you are not really serious but just messing around.

    And that is precisely the point. The poster claimed that clearly Christ stated... Which, obviously is not clear at all. What is really going on is that some people God said one thing while other people say that God says other things. We Mormon accept as a dogmatic proposition that God said certain things, but God Himself says nothing about it openly... Something completely lost on the poster.

    And far from not being serious, I am completely serious and factually correct.

    Btw, as you probably already grasp, asking to prove Satan is NOT real is a very different deal - so different that I wonder why you would even bring it up.

  3. His behavior is not an issue. If you claim you believe in Christ but not Satan, then you either imply that Christ is a liar or you truly do not understand His teachings.

    Completely false. I never said that, I never implied that, I never even thought that. Now your behavior is as lamentable as the other poster's.

    Because Christ very clearly stated that Satan is real.

    Do I seriously have to go through this again?

    If that is so, then you should be able to conclusively demonstrate that. I'll just sit back while you fail to do that.

  4. While I'm not a fan of Janeane Garafalo, she does have a point. Much of Christianity today attempts to refute scientific evidence. They insist in a 6 day creation; dinosaurs that dwelt with men; 6000 year old earth; etc.

    Should we always go with the Church's interpretation of things, we would still think the earth was the center of the universe, with all planets and stars revolving around it.

    Sometimes it is religion that has to give to new evidence. When it does not, it gives credence to the concept that religion has nothing to do with evidence, and so must entirely be made up.

    As mikbone quotes JS regarding matter (and correctly so), I could add that JS' nephew Joseph F Smith, as well as Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie (JSF's son and grandson-in-law) were insistent on a 6000 year old earth, no dinosaurs, no evolution. He also dismissed the idea of man ever going to the moon.

    So, while Joseph Smith may have been enlightened, it seems that when it comes to science, our own church went through a Dark Ages.

    Many in the Church today are still in the dark ages... Rejecting evolution or holding to a literal flood as described in the Bible. There's no shortage of unenlightend Mormons.

  5. The end of verse 6 says "and bSatan came also among them." The footnote for 6b refers you to "TG Devil."

    I don't follow you :confused: So when was the Book of Job written? And when has satan been anything different than what he became after being cast down to the earth?

    Guide to the Scriptures - Lucifer: After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76:25–29

    Job 1 and 2, the verses that tell the story of satan conversing with God about Job both have footnotes where 'satan' is referenced to "TG Devil." Adversary; Destroyer; Evil; Hell; Lucifer; Satan; These are not words attributed to those who act on behalf of God.

    The topical guide?

    How bout you reseach the role of the advesary in the Divine Coucil in ancient literature and then let's talk.

    Where does that happen? Verse 12 says: "And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy bpower; The footnote 12b refers you to "TG Probation." So God permits satan to tempt Job and take away his possesions.

    The last half of the verse "only upon himself put not forth thine hand." is God's explicit condition that Job was not to be killed. In Job 2 God gives satan permission to afflict Job physically, but He again gives the explicit condition in verse 6: "but save his life."

    It happens in the Book of Job 1: 15, 17, 18 and the wager was that Job wouldn't turn his back on God because of it.

  6. Snow. That Devil/Satan that you have no testimony of. You can bet hes got his eye on you,

    and a big old grin on his face

    That's just a bunch of meaningless blather.

    You could just say that a green monster from planet nine has his seven eyes on me and the evidence for either would be exactly the same... As well as the effect it has on me and how how live my life... No effect whatsoever.

    Let me ask you a question... Apparently you believe in the devil... So how would my life be made better if I too believed in a magical, invisible, super, evil creature?

  7. It does't refer to the "devil." During the time the Book of Job was written, the was no such creature as the devil as we think about today.

    The character in Job was ha-satan, an archetypal character in ancient literature that acted on behalf of the king... In this case God; someone who hung out in bathrooms and alleys and saw what people sails about the king behind hid back.

    In real life God does't conspire with the devil to murder people on a bet.

  8. FWIW, Snow, I agree that the existence of a personage called 'Satan' is not strictly necessary. It doesn't logically follow that because God exists, Satan must also exist. Having said that, it is possible that those who oppose God have a leader, and that people call him Satan, the Devil, or whatever. But evil would exist in the world just fine without such a being--we humans are quite capable of cooking up evil in our own hearts.

    Agree

  9. Because the Savior, of whom you claim to have a testimony, says that he is real. What else do you need?

    It's amazing that this even needs to be explained:

    1. Christ doesn't say he is real. God is silent. Other people say that God says such and such... Big difference.

    2. For those of you who are unfamiliar with what a testimony is... It's not simply a matter of believing what someone else says. That's merely intellectual assent. A real testimony involves divine intervention... And God hasn't seen fit to reveal to me that ol scratch is real.

  10. If I remember correctly this knowlege about Thomas is recently discovered by the West; in the last 20 years. I personally don't place a lot of credence in the organisers of the NT because they did the council of Nicea after the great apostacy began, and I think they excluded books that should have been there. It is not actually a belief for me; rather more of a suspicion.

    Were Joseph Smith alive today, I wonder how he would have dealt with books like the Book of Nicodemus, the Book of Mary, and other "Non-Canonical" Writings.

    Please keep in mind that I am very correctable, and I am an amateur biblical history researcher, so I know that some of my conclusions may not be correct.

    huh?

    You believe that "organizers" of the New Testament "did" the Council of Nicaea?

  11. Trolling? I don't understand how someone can claim they don't believe in a literal satan in the face of scripture and what our prophets have said. Especially when Christ and Moses had conversations with him, again, how do you justify that belief?

    Your lack of understanding doesn't much interest me. It's your behavior that is at issue here... Implying that I think God is a liar.

  12. If you have a testimony of the Savior you must also have a testimony of Satan ... both sides of the coin.

    My folks have served 5 missions and every single time as they got ready to leave things took a down ward spiral. The better we do the harder he works ... he doesn't much care about the ones he already has, he wants the ones that got away. If the GA keep addressing it maybe it's because we aren't listening hard enough.

    well - that's completely untrue.

    I have a testimony of the Savior and no testimony at all of the devil. I can't see any good reason to believe he is real

  13. You could say that sexual harassment is in the eye of the beholder. A man walks into an elevator and says to two women, "Looking fine today, ladies." One woman grins and is obviously flattered. The other is completely turned off and offended.

    Anyone who would find such a comment to be sexually harassing is a hyper sensitive primadonna who has lost touch with reality