paracaidista508

I have no idea what the vote count was way back when the bsa voted on whether to let openly gay kids participate,but I do recall virtually all the lds leadership on the council not showing up as they were on vacation. It wasn't a suprise vote so if the church really wanted to stick with bsa and stand up for our beliefs then they would have shown up to vote. That being said I think the church was just trying not to look bigoted in the eyes of the world so doing the no-show and hastening the inevitable destruction of scouting as we know it was probably the lesser evil.
That being said, scouting was falling apart inside the lds church anyway. When we have so many adult leaders who don't take the kids camping, do backpack trips and show up to church adultctivities in skinny jeans and speaking g with a lilt it is little surprise we have come to this. As for the skinny jeans and lilt...that's in my ward right now.
Many will say that camping, outdoor skills, hunting etc are irrelevant in our society. Sure that is true I  terms of how we exist, but there is nothing better to build confidence than to have to live a little rough to appreciate how easy we have it. Additionally, when a young man makes a big game kill, carries out and butchers his own meat he learns self reliance and the confidence to do hard things. Hunting isn't a part of the bsa, but ties in with the whole outdoor experience and character building thing.
Our church went from rough frontier and self reliant types to having a population of men who have better skin and softer hands than their wives. Funny thing, our stake did a trek a ways back and on the average, the women and girls were much hardier than the average male. The boys and most of the men were shocked their women folks were tougher than them.
Anyway...this was all baked in when we no showed for the vote. It is just as well as we (lds) are not interested in that type of program. It is sad that for all these years church leadership has harped on young men about getting their eagle,but now they have essentially just erased it from the the list of things that make you a better person. I'm thinking they never really believed that in the first place.

I'd specifically like to see the empirical data showing how eagle scouts are more likely to go on missions, then marry in temple and then have kids and then also have kids who are active.  We have been told this ad infinitum over the years, but I see lots of rm with eagles getting divorce ed or not marrying at all because they are well....who knows. Mebbe their mom earned the eagle for them and now they realize they got a free trophy lol.
Just curious. I have done all the above cept the mission thing. I'm told lack of mission service is actually the real reason people fall away or don't check all the lifetime achievement boxes. Anyway, would be interesting to see. I guarantee they have the numbers on this. Too bad we will never see it, might be interesting.

Aka.....relaxing

In another thread this performance was alleged to be all about patriotism...not in this lady's eyes apparently.

 

First problem is quite possibly you think other people dwell on how much you know/dont know. Are there people like that? Sure, but very few. Most people dont care and probably never think about it.

Secondly, if you are trying to be that guy/gal in gospel doctrine who knows everything and answers every question, well no one cares about them either because it is usually just showmanship.

Ask for a calling as a gospel doctrine teacher. That calling is best for those who are lacking in knowledge as it becomes a forced study program and you learn what the church would like you/us to learn.

Anyway- dont dwell on it lest you become like so many in Utah who are choking down anti-depressants by the handful so they can cope with not being able to keep up with Brother / Sister ( insert any well-known mormon surname). Many of those people who are outwardly just so perfect and do everything right either dont have much of a life or it is a hobby. You dont have to be all/know all to be righteous. Their lives are often just as screwed up as everyone else's, they just conceal it well. 
Relax

First problem is quite possibly you think other people dwell on how much you know/dont know. Are there people like that? Sure, but very few. Most people dont care and probably never think about it.

Secondly, if you are trying to be that guy/gal in gospel doctrine who knows everything and answers every question, well no one cares about them either because it is usually just showmanship.

Ask for a calling as a gospel doctrine teacher. That calling is best for those who are lacking in knowledge as it becomes a forced study program and you learn what the church would like you/us to learn.

Anyway- dont dwell on it lest you become like so many in Utah who are choking down anti-depressants by the handful so they can cope with not being able to keep up with Brother / Sister ( insert any well-known mormon surname). Many of those people who are outwardly just so perfect and do everything right either dont have much of a life or it is a hobby. You dont have to be all/know all to be righteous. Their lives are often just as screwed up as everyone else's, they just conceal it well. 
Relax

You dont say if he knows you, if you have some relationship with him etc..you said you speak with his parents so I assume you know each other.

That being said, I dont know him but if some young lady were writing me and I was interested in her my priority would be to write her back before anyone else to include my parents. That is just me though. Most kids these days find it an ordeal to even put pen to paper much less address an envelope and go through the hardship of just enduring the letter writing effort. So either he is just isnt into you, he is lazy and inconsiderate or he just has not received your letter(s) yet. Your guess is as good as mine.

Many will make excuses that since he is in the MTC/on mission that he has little or no time. Until I see an MTC schedule that remotely resembles Army or USMC boot camp then he has time enough to write a novel to you.I didnt go on a mission, but I have been in many conversations over the years where RMs discussed how rough the MTC was in terms of lack of sleep. Ill just say this- it aint that tough if what they say is true.

If I (and everyone else) could write multiple letters home and to my GF each week while I was in boot camp then someone at the MTC can write too- they are just choosing not to.

If my daughter were writing a missionary and he never wrote back Id tell her to dump him. If you are not worth writing to in his mind then he is not worth being around.

I really hope I didnt give the impression I felt bad about it......ha
 

I regard a MM or PP as one who not only does all the standard textbook righteous things, but also makes sure to let everyone else know they do. Some even like to act as a form of morality police to keep the rest of us in line.

I do not ever recall using the terminology towards anyone, but several years ago as an adult I was approached by someone in Priesthood leadership in our ward who told me I should be wearing a white shirt to church as non-white or multi-colored shirts were not authorized and that I should have shaved ( I had a 1 day growth).

Anyway I told him I was not going to comply with any of his made-up Peter Priesthood rules and he should mind his own business. He insisted it was church policy so I told him to reference it in church policy and/or sick the Bishop on me if it was that big of a deal. I never heard from him again or the Bishop for that matter. He was/and still is one of those guys who likes to itemize the service he does for others and all the sacrifices he makes to be in the high council.
In one ward I was asked why I missed so much church and I told them it was because of my shift at work (police). They said well this has been going on for a couple years maybe you can get a desk job or find a new career. I told him ...well I wont repeat it.

Anyways---my dos centavos

I regard a MM or PP as one who not only does all the standard textbook righteous things, but also makes sure to let everyone else know they do. Some even like to act as a form of morality police to keep the rest of us in line.

I do not ever recall using the terminology towards anyone, but several years ago as an adult I was approached by someone in Priesthood leadership in our ward who told me I should be wearing a white shirt to church as non-white or multi-colored shirts were not authorized and that I should have shaved ( I had a 1 day growth).

Anyway I told him I was not going to comply with any of his made-up Peter Priesthood rules and he should mind his own business. He insisted it was church policy so I told him to reference it in church policy and/or sick the Bishop on me if it was that big of a deal. I never heard from him again or the Bishop for that matter. He was/and still is one of those guys who likes to itemize the service he does for others and all the sacrifices he makes to be in the high council.
In one ward I was asked why I missed so much church and I told them it was because of my shift at work (police). They said well this has been going on for a couple years maybe you can get a desk job or find a new career. I told him ...well I wont repeat it.

Anyways---my dos centavos

I say go to the events...get good grades, get a scholarship, become a lawyer and sue them to ruins.

Then nobody will have any school stuff on weekends because they will be broke. That will teach em.

I do agree- this is likely illegal. Find someone of another denomination to make a stink though. NOBODY cares what mormons think to include the courts.

Experience has shown me that there are many who live in poverty simply by their own choice and they lack the drive to climb up out of it. Obviously this isnt a blanket generalization, but it does apply to a large amount of people.
In my younger days when I was poor, I worked in a convenience store in probably one of the nastiest part of town. In my few years working there I was amazed at the constant stream of people buying garbage. The typical transaction was a 40  or a six pack, pack of smokes and chips or something like that. Some of these folks did that a couple times during my shift esp to get more liquor. Some were so frequent and predictable I had their choice of smokes ready for them when they got to the register.
Families would even do their grocery shopping there (this store was comparable to a circle k- def not a place you would buy groceries). They bring in their kids, shop and then check out with two transactions. 1 was the groceries and the kids bought them with the old tear out food stamps and the second was the beer, smokes and lottery tickets and mom/dad would pay in cash.

Fast forward to 20 yrs of police work, I have been inside literally hundreds of different homes of poor people. Most of them smoked, most drank and if i was to check the floorboard of their cars I bet I would find old non-winning lottery tickets. Of course some of these homes did not have these things going on, but they were rare.
Imagine a pack-a-day smoking habit. I think back then Marlboro Reds were $1.25 per pack. If the smoker simply kept that 1.25 each day and saved that every day for 1 year they could buy $450 worth of the stock of Phillip Morris (Now Altria) , reinvest dividends and they would have $311,000 today. That is just a one-time investment.
Most smokers in the US are the poorer people. The investment they make every day in tobacco not only contributes to ill health, it also keeps them poor. In the meantime, I invest heavily in Altria stock (Marlboro and Copenhagen and other sin stocks as well)  and will continue to invest a sizable portion of my portfolio there since in the long term I'll be taxed to the hilt to pay for their medical care, food stamps, welfare etc. They have a choice and they choose to smoke and drink over pretty much everything else. I feel sorry for them only in the respect that they dont have the motivation or will power to quit and do something productive for themselves and build a better future for their kids. For full disclosure, I am an ex smoker so I know what it is like to battle an addiction- not fun, but definitely not as hard as it seems.

http://www.buyupside.com/backtest/divrebackdisplaysummary.php?symbol=mo&amountinitial=450&amount=0&interval=1&start_month=05&start_year=1982&end_month=05&end_year=2016&submit=Calculate+Results
Another example- Heres an acquaintance who upon leaving the military they were under the impression they would inherit a family business and live the good life. Well just a few years after leaving the service the business was sold, the money squandered and this person never saw a dime of it. So instead of moving on and doing whatever, they have blamed the lack of inheriting the business as the cause of their poverty. Never mind the fact GI bill was avail to go to school, never mind they chose jobs in small towns where employers had no benefits, never mind they refused to invest in a small stock or mutual fund to fund their retirement (because the market is rigged), never mind the fact they purchased a Whole Life insurance policy and got robbed blind by an insurance agent and still do to this day. They have even taken a number of loans against it over the years. You see, all the opportunity was in front of this person, but they chose to be beaten down, they chose to not make an effort, they chose not to go get a college education which was essentially free and they chose to put what little money they did have under a mattress and now 50 yrs later they are living off Social Security and that is all they have. Literally ALL they have. It is too bad, but they have listened to no one.

Could have done so much more, but chose not to. I have more real stories like this, but wee all know people in this situation. It is not the fault of the CEO, it is largely their fault. Perhaps not their fault for getting into it, but certainly for dwelling in it because they just accepted poverty as their way of life.

There are situations of course where poverty just happens due to whatever goes on in life, but much of it is controllable by the one who is in poverty. It may take time to escape it, but it can be done- with discipline. 
As for the disparity in CEO pay- who cares what they make? No one starts a business so they can subsidize others. They build it because they want to make money and will pay any needed labor what the market will demand. The CEO owes nobody a thing other than the compensation AGREED upon. The CEO is paid what he/she is paid because the board of directors decided they were worth it for whatever reason. When people start quitting for other jobs, the the pay will be increased until market equilibrium is reached in terms of compensation.

 
 
 

Experience has shown me that there are many who live in poverty simply by their own choice and they lack the drive to climb up out of it. Obviously this isnt a blanket generalization, but it does apply to a large amount of people.
In my younger days when I was poor, I worked in a convenience store in probably one of the nastiest part of town. In my few years working there I was amazed at the constant stream of people buying garbage. The typical transaction was a 40  or a six pack, pack of smokes and chips or something like that. Some of these folks did that a couple times during my shift esp to get more liquor. Some were so frequent and predictable I had their choice of smokes ready for them when they got to the register.
Families would even do their grocery shopping there (this store was comparable to a circle k- def not a place you would buy groceries). They bring in their kids, shop and then check out with two transactions. 1 was the groceries and the kids bought them with the old tear out food stamps and the second was the beer, smokes and lottery tickets and mom/dad would pay in cash.

Fast forward to 20 yrs of police work, I have been inside literally hundreds of different homes of poor people. Most of them smoked, most drank and if i was to check the floorboard of their cars I bet I would find old non-winning lottery tickets. Of course some of these homes did not have these things going on, but they were rare.
Imagine a pack-a-day smoking habit. I think back then Marlboro Reds were $1.25 per pack. If the smoker simply kept that 1.25 each day and saved that every day for 1 year they could buy $450 worth of the stock of Phillip Morris (Now Altria) , reinvest dividends and they would have $311,000 today. That is just a one-time investment.
Most smokers in the US are the poorer people. The investment they make every day in tobacco not only contributes to ill health, it also keeps them poor. In the meantime, I invest heavily in Altria stock (Marlboro and Copenhagen and other sin stocks as well)  and will continue to invest a sizable portion of my portfolio there since in the long term I'll be taxed to the hilt to pay for their medical care, food stamps, welfare etc. They have a choice and they choose to smoke and drink over pretty much everything else. I feel sorry for them only in the respect that they dont have the motivation or will power to quit and do something productive for themselves and build a better future for their kids. For full disclosure, I am an ex smoker so I know what it is like to battle an addiction- not fun, but definitely not as hard as it seems.

http://www.buyupside.com/backtest/divrebackdisplaysummary.php?symbol=mo&amountinitial=450&amount=0&interval=1&start_month=05&start_year=1982&end_month=05&end_year=2016&submit=Calculate+Results
Another example- Heres an acquaintance who upon leaving the military they were under the impression they would inherit a family business and live the good life. Well just a few years after leaving the service the business was sold, the money squandered and this person never saw a dime of it. So instead of moving on and doing whatever, they have blamed the lack of inheriting the business as the cause of their poverty. Never mind the fact GI bill was avail to go to school, never mind they chose jobs in small towns where employers had no benefits, never mind they refused to invest in a small stock or mutual fund to fund their retirement (because the market is rigged), never mind the fact they purchased a Whole Life insurance policy and got robbed blind by an insurance agent and still do to this day. They have even taken a number of loans against it over the years. You see, all the opportunity was in front of this person, but they chose to be beaten down, they chose to not make an effort, they chose not to go get a college education which was essentially free and they chose to put what little money they did have under a mattress and now 50 yrs later they are living off Social Security and that is all they have. Literally ALL they have. It is too bad, but they have listened to no one.

Could have done so much more, but chose not to. I have more real stories like this, but wee all know people in this situation. It is not the fault of the CEO, it is largely their fault. Perhaps not their fault for getting into it, but certainly for dwelling in it because they just accepted poverty as their way of life.

There are situations of course where poverty just happens due to whatever goes on in life, but much of it is controllable by the one who is in poverty. It may take time to escape it, but it can be done- with discipline. 
As for the disparity in CEO pay- who cares what they make? No one starts a business so they can subsidize others. They build it because they want to make money and will pay any needed labor what the market will demand. The CEO owes nobody a thing other than the compensation AGREED upon. The CEO is paid what he/she is paid because the board of directors decided they were worth it for whatever reason. When people start quitting for other jobs, the the pay will be increased until market equilibrium is reached in terms of compensation.

 
 
 

Mirkwood,

I did some research on the two commentators in the article. Interesting findings:

Jason Fritz- This guy is currently a Doctoral Student.

Here is a link to his LinkedIn profile:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fritz-14b10420

The Article mentions he has three tours in Iraq as if it is relevant. Perhaps it may be so I read what he wrote about his experiences there in his profile. Bottom line- he did his actual combat time inside an M1 tank probably running people over and smashing through the rebublican guard in an all out slaughter. I will definitely give him and his Soldiers MEGA CREDIT for that. Nothing to do with riot control or police work.

His second tour was an admin job as well as his third which was as a personnel officer (HR)

So since then he has found his way into studying cops and stuff. No police experience. He is credible as it applies to smashing through enemy defenses with the Armor might of the US army as that is what he did. Police work? Well he has been reading a lot so now he is a credible researcher who is also a Monday morning QB.

He is also anti-cop. He doesn’t come out and say that, but check out this statement from an article of his:

“We simply do not know how many Americans are killed by police, to say nothing of the justifications for these deaths. The most prominent cases will be investigated, but most will not.” 

http://warontherocks.com/2015/08/getting-police-militarization-under-control/

Unbelievable! Most cases will not even be investigated? His extensive research should show him that there is not one officer involved shooting where someone dies where there is not a lawsuit which follows. That being the case, if we had lawyers discovering hundreds of shooting cases a year that were not even investigated we surely would have known. This is just a bomb throwing cop hater.

Next up, Scriven King:

AirForce Security cop. Basically guarded a gate for a couple years and guarded a desk for a few more. He cites one example of him managing a barricaded suspect. Crap as a civilian police supervisor I have personally managed at least a hundred of those things. Weak sauce.

Anyway he doesn’t have any real LE experience and his military experience is just standard enlisted stuff…following orders and managing a small group of people and other misc admin NCO duties. No mention of riot experience either.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/scrivenking

Interestingly the Author of the Article itself is a four year USMC Infantry vet. Why he would go ask two dudes who have never stood a line with a riot shield, helmet and hickory stick is beyond me. There are probably 2-500 cops on LAPD who can tell you all about it.

Anyway- as for Ferguson’s response. Don’t know what to make of it as I don’t have the intel they had or allegedly had. I do know a cop got shot and part of the town was burning before the riot police were even deployed so don’t think the cops are the ones who started all this.

JFYI- The following soliloquy is based on my experience, not some newspaper article or something my 70 year old uncle who was a cop told me.
 
Background: 24 years combined service in Military and LEO. Served on active duty in the Infantry and as a cop. Nearly 100% of police career was on the street at night on a large agency. Large being a matter of perspective, but it is a serious well-known agency. I was a Tactical officer (SWAT, SAU etc whatever you want to call it) and have been on hundreds of tactical incidents to include at least 100 high-risk warrants). Military-wise two deployments in combat and not behind a typewriter…behind a gun. Retired now thankfully.

Here goes- it is long but it may prove to be informative.
 As long as policing has been around, there have been critics of it from within and without the police community. Generally speaking over the years while I was a cop, our biggest enemy was our own administration. Typically police admins are made up of ladder climbers who did about three years of patrol and a couple other misc assignments and then somehow made it to top tier positions within the dept, but they ultimately know nothing about how to be a cop.

The public was often a bigger supporter of police than the admin was until probably the past ten years or so. Recent publicity surrounding officer involved shootings, militarization etc have led to much more criticism of the police (some deserved, some not) and hence the discussions. Part of the problem with this is that typically the opinion of the police in these matters is often disregarded. TYhe admins become our spokesmen but they are really just politicians and solidify their careers through administrative executions of street cops. The critics in the public are largely so ill informed in these matters it renders their opinions pretty much baseless. Reason being is A- they have no skin in the game other than taxes and B- they have no idea what is going on around them in their communities. Their only experience with the police is getting a ticket and what they see on the news.
Anyway- I’m going to address some things here about the police to help educate. I'm not here to spar, fight or pontificate on all the what-ifs. Just here to give perspective. Several topics are going to be elaborated on so get ready for a long post:
Selection of police officers: All agencies and states have different standards, but they are all similar in the basics. Background, physical/medical/mental. Fact is majority of US citizens including those you sit in church with (LDS too) cannot pass the background check in regards to morals and criminal behavior. A friend of mine who is LDS worked hiring for four years and he told me the backgrounds of the LDS applicants were every bit as screwed up as everyone else. The only reason he could tell some of them were LDS is because of their last name or the fact they spoke fluent Spanish and lived abroad for two year (mission). The general population of the US is ok with a certain level of crime (theft, fraud, drugs, sex offenses) so long as they were the ones doing it. As for all the other issues people vary in intelligence, physical agility and mental health. People often wonder why there are fat cops…well our administrations wont let us work out on duty like the Fire Depts do so legally they cannot enforce physical standards as a standard of continued employment. This being the case, the dept cant fire you for being fat. It is a personal thing if you want to be fit. I worked the street for nearly my entire career and have been involved in wayyy over a couple hundred forceful arrest and violent situations. I felt it was in my best interest to be as fit as possible so if anyone kills me with fists or a choke, they at least get a trip to the hospital to get bullet holes patched, bones set and eyeballs put back in their sockets

Mental health: Police applicants who make it that far in the hiring process undergo a psychological evaluation and yes some wingnuts make it through. Problem here is we are evaluating people for their potential to be mentally resilient to the mental rigors of the job, yet remain calm and collected enough to be able to reason through a situation without flipping out or making a horrible decision. We must remember that outside of someone applying from another agency, these applicants have never done this stuff nor ever been exposed to it. In fact, many nowadays have never been involved in a fist fight at school so we don’t know if they will even engage when called upon to do so.
Our field training programs are generally about 16-20 weeks long depending upon the agency. This is the time where we get to look at a recruit, mentor them and hopefully see them get involved in a violent mess so we can assess their ability to deal with it according to their training. One group we got out of the academy had a new recruit get shot in an ambush on his first night on duty. He still works there.
Bottom line for hiring:  Historically we only find 2/100 applicants suitable for hire. Most Americans cannot make the hiring process for a variety of reasons . This includes most of you reading this. That is for even the agencies with the lamest of hiring standards. That isn’t meant to be a slam, it is reality.

As the US has hundreds of agencies nationwide, the standard for hiring and training varies and is often geared towards LOCAL norms and community expectations. The larger agencies (500+ Officers) usually are on a similar sheet of music when it comes to standards, training and tactics. Many are members of CALEA.
Body Armor:  When these discussions of militarization come up oftentimes the exterior “military style” vests are a topic of discussion. Most of what you see on the street is a street cop is wearing it is what is called an “outer vest.” This is usually just a regular patrol vest in a different form. With all the equipment cops have to carry now, it is much easier to carry that stuff on an outer vest and leave the pistol, ammo and cuffs on a belt. Most agencies require a patrol officer to carry on their person   a pistol, three magazines of ammo, pepper spray, two handcuffs, expandable baton, taser w/extra cartridge, pens, notebook/cards, radio, vest etc… My old agency you could be disciplined if caught not carrying that stuff. The outer vest makes that easier and also it has been found to reduce the number of lower back issues. Back issues sideline many cops during the last 5 yrs of their career and you as a taxpayer get to pay for their medical and tax free retirement….so we are just saving you money.
Back to the vest: A patrol vest typically is a level 2 or 3 which essentially stops nearly all pistol rounds known to exist except some 22 mag and 5.7 FN cartridges. Also this will stop some very low velocity rifle and most shotgun projectiles. Keep in mind, this only works where the body is protected. Every officer I know of who has been shot whether they be dead or alive was hit in places other than the vest. These vests do not stop 99% of rifle rounds. A bullet fired from a 30.06 or a .223 will go through them like a hot knife through butter. Now there are some tactical vests that are level 3s which also have a ballistic plate in front and or the rear. These don’t offer much coverage but better than nothing. These plates will stop several impacts from an AK47, Ar-15 or a 450 marlin. Given that suspects and many cops are not the most stellar marksman while they are being shot at, even officers wearing these vests often get hit everywhere else except the plate. Enough said there.

Camo Uniforms:  Actually this is rare. My former agency doesn’t have any I have ever seen, but they do wear Olive Drab on the Tactical Team (SWAT, Special Assignments etc..) The vast majority of the other equipment they wear is also green or the same as the military uses. These officers are not running around on patrol wearing this stuff. They are exclusively used for high-risk situations so you will never see them. I live in the same city I worked and to this day I have never seen any patrol cops dressed in camo or anything other than the LAPD blue patrol uniform. I'm sure it happens here or there but as a matter of regular duty uniform I highly doubt it.

Some may say, well why do they need a military uniform??? Well these uniforms need to be functional for what they are doing, be durable and also flame retardant (nomex). The LAPD blue polyester uniform is not a good SWAT uniform. I wore mine a couple times on emergency callouts that lasted nearly a day and they were trashed when I was done.
Ultimately what does it matter? Once a situation has deteriorated to the point that someone is spraying bullets, has hostages or is trying to escape into the community to either get away or continue to do harm; who cares about their sensibilities when it comes to the cop’s current fashion statement?

Armored Vehicles:  I love this part. First of all, the conversation here makes it sound like the cops are out patrolling the city in these things. Like the military vests and camo uniforms discussed above, I have never seen this happen where I live or in the surrounding area. I have seen these vehicles, but they were obviously going to an incident, training or maintenance.

There are many types. As for the MRAPs, there are a lot out there, but most are sidelined because no one knows how to maintain them and most of the agencies who got them can’t afford the parts. So they are being stored for the most part. In my local area (6 million people) I don’t know of any agency that has one. Almost all use the bearcat because it was designed to deploy and protect cops and it does that very well. I won’t say how many my agency has, but it is more than 1. I only wish we had them when I was a tactical officer. In the past, most agencies used decommissioned armored cars.

What is an armored vehicle used for? Well it is used to deliver officers right into a hot scene while being protected or as a means of extracting people from gun battles with some armor to protect them. We have done this with civilians and cops. They are used to breach fortified homes while under fire…yes this happens and we have done it several times. In the Ferguson riot situation is was a platform higher than the crown where the observers (snipers) can watch the crowd from a vantage point and warn the front line about people approaching with bricks, weapons etc. If someone starts shooting, they have a hard time hiding from the guy on top of the armored car. The car also offers cover from bricks. Riot shields do not offer much protection from bricks.

Patrol cars with armor: Most new patrol cars these days come with an option to have ballistic panels inserted in the doors. The windows are still made of glass and the body of the car is still made of steel which handgun and rifle rounds will penetrate to varying degrees. Most agencies do not have these ballistic panels in their vehicles.
K-9 Use:  Oftentimes the public will ask why a K9 wasn’t used instead of some other form of force. Well simple reason: 99% of cops don’t have a dog in their car and many agencies don’t have one at all. The majority of incidents happen within a minute or two of contact and is over with at this point. Go research how much a dog, the training and the handler cost and get back with me if you still think you as a taxpayer can afford it. Oh, and when we do use a dog it is almost always labeled as excessive or racist anyway. They are a great tool though and they are used as often as necessary and when they are available. My agency always had 2-3 available each night, but they rarely could get to an incident before it was over. While a tactical officer we used the k9 all the time with great results.
TASER:  This is one of the best tools ever and it saves lives every day. Some people who would have otherwise been shot have lived productive lives and continued to commit even more crime. Perhgaps in some cases the bullet would have been a better option, but I digress. I easily would have at least 4 more shootings to my credit if it were not for the TASER. I’ll leave it at that.
Officers with mental health training:   Many police shootings involve a mentally ill person. I was involved in a suicide by cop. Wasn’t much time to get out a couch and talk things over with him as he opened up on us with a handgun as soon as we got to the house. That is how most of them go because they want us to kill them. Many police agencies get officers trained in how to deal with mentally ill people, but given the time necessary, the expense and the logistics of all of it; it is not feasible to train everyone. Cops get pretty good at it though due to experience. Looking back I probably dealt with a mentally ill person every single shift if I was to average out the encounters. I only got in a shooting with one so I feel pretty good about the results.
Officer Involved Shootings:   I Love this topic because it is so misrepresented and misunderstood.

The best line ever is,  “I don’t know why you guys shoot so many people, my uncle was a cop and he never even took his gun out of the holster cept to go poop.?”  My response is well that was 30 years ago and it wasn’t socially acceptable to shoot cops like it is now.
Anyway, this all depends on where you work. I spent the first 8 yrs working swings and graves in the nicest part of town and frankly I don’t know if I had a shift where we were not taking people off at gunpoint. Im sure there were some, but just to make up for it some shifts I did it three or four times. We had tons of gang activity and white trash meth heads in my precinct so gunplay isn’t too unusual. I recall one shift, my buddy and I were on a call and he ended up killing a suspect who attacked him with a knife. Before the end of shift, another officer just a mile south of us ended up in a shooting with another guy attacking people with a knife. Our area had shots fired calls every single shift, every single hour of the night and many times we got there and there were people on scene with holes in them. Some were dead and some alive. Sounds pretty bad, but is doesn’t even hold a candle to LA.

Most officer involved shootings happen within seconds of making contact with the suspect. Sometimes you don’t even get to get out of your car. One buddy of mine got shot several times as soon as he knocked on a door and another one took a couple rounds as soon as he drove up on the call. The other responding officers killed both suspects who did those shootings.

I have personally been in two shootings and on-scene for between 15 and 20 others. A couple were while I was a Tactical Officer (SWAT) and the rest while in patrol. I have been shot at quite a bit mostly by pistols, but for sure one AK47, couple AR15s and a shotgun. I was on scene for a shooting with a suicide by cop guy who in my opinion didn’t need to get shot (yet), but was by someone who was more scared for their life than I was at the time so I guess its all good. We paid out on a lawsuit on that one. Small payout, but we lost the claim nonetheless.

Body cams will bring more of this to real life in the future, but for now you will have to just believe we don’t want to get into these shootings. I and we will pull the trigger if it comes do a decision between which of us gets to die though. I will say that much.

As for the “high frequency” of these shootings, there are less now than there have been in a long time. They just get more publicity now. While I worked patrol, only about half the shootings our dept got involved with ever made the paper or the TV.
“Just shoot them in the arm or leg or use Judo…”  You do it idiot if you are that good.

Here is the deal; that is often said about dealing with knife wielding suspects.  As many stabbings and shootings I have seen I can comfortable say I would rather get shot than stabbed. My job description doesn’t say I need to take a slashing knife attack just so I can nicely get a suspect into cuffs. People who want us to do that have never seen knife wounds. If you want to see some Google is your friend. As for me: pull a knife on me and I will shoot you. I may even give you some verbals to drop the knife if you give me a chance.
Cops are never held accountable or arrested for crimes:  False- I personally have arrested two cops. My agency has arrested several of our officers over the years for a variety of stuff. The administration at nearly every agency I have associated with is regarded as mush more perilous to an officer’s career than the public can be. In Arizona we have an organization which oversees and review terminations (AZPOST). Go to their website and read about the various things cops get terminated for here.

In the personal lives of cops, per-capita we are much less likely to break any law (except for traffic laws) than their own neighbors. Just in my own neighborhood I know of several people who are regular law-breakers and many of them are in my ward. Stealing, fraud, drugs and other violations. The other ones I don’t know about because the ward gossip mill doesn’t know about it.
ON EDIT...I forgot Guns: We carry Glocks primarily. Flashlights can be mounted to these pistols to aid in building searches and free up an officer's support hand to do other things like...suppor the pistol to increase the quality of marksmanship.

Ar-15s. Yep lots out there. In my region we went to these about 15 yrs ago after there were several gunbattles with suspects who wewre armed with AR15s or AK47s and wearing body armor. Traditionally at that time SWAT teams were armed with MP5 submachine guns (terrific CQB weapon for its time btw) which are 9mm. These bullets dont go through body armor so we got AR15s instead. Also the patrol shotgun went largely by the wayside becuase an officer could more effectively handle an AR15 as opposed to a shotgun shooting slug or 00Buck. The ar15 ammo we use is tipped with Hornady vmax (or similar) bullets as they are highly frangible and dont go through much in terms of barriers or people.

I have only seen a few that are full auto and they reside with the swat team. The majority of these rifles are in the cars of patrol officers and they are semi-auto.
Anyway- just some of my experiences with police work. I am also a critic of cops to some degree, but this militarization thing is a bunch of garbage. I mean think about it: The average ratio of cop to citizen in the US is 2/1000. Does anyone really think that the police could take over our communities? I know in my city the ratio is more like 1.25/1000 so even less of a chance.

Oftentimes the equipment they carry is military style in terms of looks or firepower. As for looks, yes. As for firepower, not even close. My platoon in Iraq had 16 humvees, 16 .50 cal MGs, 8 M240B MG, AT4, frags etc and everyone with an M4 carbine or M249 SAW.  50 troops armed like that. I have never seen any police organization in this entire country who has that kind of firepower at their disposal. I know for a fact if I brought in that Platoon to this city I could lay waste to a significant number of the cops before we were nickel and dimed to death by the armed citizen or police. Until that time, though the police would have a heck of a job on their hands dealing with firepower that can trash cop cars and buildings from 1000 meters.  Their helicopters would only get a couple passes before the airspace was filled with 50 cal rounds.

People who say the cops firepower mirrors the military are crazy. They say that because their view is based not on knowledge, but on suppositions and fear. Go join the Army or Marines if you want to see what firepower is. Compared to that, our police might as well not even be armed.

So- militarization???? Not even close. As a former cop and military guy I can comfortably say we have nothing to worry about. If you are worried about it quit participating in riots and running a methlab in your home or dealing arms. If you are not doing those things you have nothing to worry about. I am in the same boat as you and I lose not one wink of sleep over it.
I will close with this: There is not one single police agency who has written in its job description that police officers are supposed to get stabbed, shot, beaten up etc.  The law doesn’t even mandate we subject ourselves to that risk. In fact, the law has established that we have absolutely no duty at all to risk out lives for anyone. The law does stipulate though (at least in AZ) that a police officer has no duty whatsoever to retreat….. ie run away.  That isn’t in our nature anyway, but in the future in many municipalities I see the continues hostility towards the police to lead to a situation where they wont get there till it is definitely safe to do so. We are already seeing that is NY, Chicago and a few other places. Their crime is skyrocketing because it is easier for the cops to just go clean up than it is to do their jobs. I mean hey it’s a lot easier to defend what happens if you were never there…LOL  

Interesting timing on all of this: Today in Houston Texas. Suspect firing on citizens with an AR15. First cop car that arrives gets 20 bullets fired into it. Miraculously the cop is either lightly wounded or not at all. SWAT arrives in their mean and menacing camo uniforms with their mean and menacing military style body armor and they act like soldiers, find the shooter and kill him. Theres news clips out there and they have armored cars and camo uniforms too. Looking pretty bad. I bet the public really cant get over the fact some cops wearing camo and military style hardware saved their butts.
So how is that a bad thing??? because the cops were not wearing shirt and tie and getting shot up like everyone else? If it makes you feel any better, one of the cops was wearing a military style vest with an armor plate in it and he was shot in the plate- likely saved his life.

This is exactly why the cops have some military style equip----because it works!

https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/185797006-2-dead-multiple-wounded-in-Houston-shooting-rampage/
 

And some more:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0mM6QsILNAhVB_GMKHVRSCekQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fksn.com%2F2016%2F01%2F22%2Fflorida-police-officer-wounded-in-ambush-shooting%2F&psig=AFQjCNHnEER4DjwI901XtpClkzSeZhpdIA&ust=1464717522841424

 
 



 
Well these dont exactly illustrate penetration thru metal, but they do illustrate the need for armor. Of course, there are a certain number of police officer murders we (American Public) are ok with so long as no one is offended by some armor or a couple of guns that look full auto. I guess the challenge is finding out exactly how many police officer's deaths we are content to have until we stop worrying about what kind of weapons or armor they have available.

On this note, the same applies to our military and their dead who we honor today. Fortunately we are not so picky about what they look like or the equip they use because we always want them to win.

And another

Heres another one unix knight. 


 

Interesting timing on all of this: Today in Houston Texas. Suspect firing on citizens with an AR15. First cop car that arrives gets 20 bullets fired into it. Miraculously the cop is either lightly wounded or not at all. SWAT arrives in their mean and menacing camo uniforms with their mean and menacing military style body armor and they act like soldiers, find the shooter and kill him. Theres news clips out there and they have armored cars and camo uniforms too. Looking pretty bad. I bet the public really cant get over the fact some cops wearing camo and military style hardware saved their butts.
So how is that a bad thing??? because the cops were not wearing shirt and tie and getting shot up like everyone else? If it makes you feel any better, one of the cops was wearing a military style vest with an armor plate in it and he was shot in the plate- likely saved his life.

This is exactly why the cops have some military style equip----because it works!

https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/185797006-2-dead-multiple-wounded-in-Houston-shooting-rampage/
 

JFYI- The following soliloquy is based on my experience, not some newspaper article or something my 70 year old uncle who was a cop told me.
 
Background: 24 years combined service in Military and LEO. Served on active duty in the Infantry and as a cop. Nearly 100% of police career was on the street at night on a large agency. Large being a matter of perspective, but it is a serious well-known agency. I was a Tactical officer (SWAT, SAU etc whatever you want to call it) and have been on hundreds of tactical incidents to include at least 100 high-risk warrants). Military-wise two deployments in combat and not behind a typewriter…behind a gun. Retired now thankfully.

Here goes- it is long but it may prove to be informative.
 As long as policing has been around, there have been critics of it from within and without the police community. Generally speaking over the years while I was a cop, our biggest enemy was our own administration. Typically police admins are made up of ladder climbers who did about three years of patrol and a couple other misc assignments and then somehow made it to top tier positions within the dept, but they ultimately know nothing about how to be a cop.

The public was often a bigger supporter of police than the admin was until probably the past ten years or so. Recent publicity surrounding officer involved shootings, militarization etc have led to much more criticism of the police (some deserved, some not) and hence the discussions. Part of the problem with this is that typically the opinion of the police in these matters is often disregarded. TYhe admins become our spokesmen but they are really just politicians and solidify their careers through administrative executions of street cops. The critics in the public are largely so ill informed in these matters it renders their opinions pretty much baseless. Reason being is A- they have no skin in the game other than taxes and B- they have no idea what is going on around them in their communities. Their only experience with the police is getting a ticket and what they see on the news.
Anyway- I’m going to address some things here about the police to help educate. I'm not here to spar, fight or pontificate on all the what-ifs. Just here to give perspective. Several topics are going to be elaborated on so get ready for a long post:
Selection of police officers: All agencies and states have different standards, but they are all similar in the basics. Background, physical/medical/mental. Fact is majority of US citizens including those you sit in church with (LDS too) cannot pass the background check in regards to morals and criminal behavior. A friend of mine who is LDS worked hiring for four years and he told me the backgrounds of the LDS applicants were every bit as screwed up as everyone else. The only reason he could tell some of them were LDS is because of their last name or the fact they spoke fluent Spanish and lived abroad for two year (mission). The general population of the US is ok with a certain level of crime (theft, fraud, drugs, sex offenses) so long as they were the ones doing it. As for all the other issues people vary in intelligence, physical agility and mental health. People often wonder why there are fat cops…well our administrations wont let us work out on duty like the Fire Depts do so legally they cannot enforce physical standards as a standard of continued employment. This being the case, the dept cant fire you for being fat. It is a personal thing if you want to be fit. I worked the street for nearly my entire career and have been involved in wayyy over a couple hundred forceful arrest and violent situations. I felt it was in my best interest to be as fit as possible so if anyone kills me with fists or a choke, they at least get a trip to the hospital to get bullet holes patched, bones set and eyeballs put back in their sockets

Mental health: Police applicants who make it that far in the hiring process undergo a psychological evaluation and yes some wingnuts make it through. Problem here is we are evaluating people for their potential to be mentally resilient to the mental rigors of the job, yet remain calm and collected enough to be able to reason through a situation without flipping out or making a horrible decision. We must remember that outside of someone applying from another agency, these applicants have never done this stuff nor ever been exposed to it. In fact, many nowadays have never been involved in a fist fight at school so we don’t know if they will even engage when called upon to do so.
Our field training programs are generally about 16-20 weeks long depending upon the agency. This is the time where we get to look at a recruit, mentor them and hopefully see them get involved in a violent mess so we can assess their ability to deal with it according to their training. One group we got out of the academy had a new recruit get shot in an ambush on his first night on duty. He still works there.
Bottom line for hiring:  Historically we only find 2/100 applicants suitable for hire. Most Americans cannot make the hiring process for a variety of reasons . This includes most of you reading this. That is for even the agencies with the lamest of hiring standards. That isn’t meant to be a slam, it is reality.

As the US has hundreds of agencies nationwide, the standard for hiring and training varies and is often geared towards LOCAL norms and community expectations. The larger agencies (500+ Officers) usually are on a similar sheet of music when it comes to standards, training and tactics. Many are members of CALEA.
Body Armor:  When these discussions of militarization come up oftentimes the exterior “military style” vests are a topic of discussion. Most of what you see on the street is a street cop is wearing it is what is called an “outer vest.” This is usually just a regular patrol vest in a different form. With all the equipment cops have to carry now, it is much easier to carry that stuff on an outer vest and leave the pistol, ammo and cuffs on a belt. Most agencies require a patrol officer to carry on their person   a pistol, three magazines of ammo, pepper spray, two handcuffs, expandable baton, taser w/extra cartridge, pens, notebook/cards, radio, vest etc… My old agency you could be disciplined if caught not carrying that stuff. The outer vest makes that easier and also it has been found to reduce the number of lower back issues. Back issues sideline many cops during the last 5 yrs of their career and you as a taxpayer get to pay for their medical and tax free retirement….so we are just saving you money.
Back to the vest: A patrol vest typically is a level 2 or 3 which essentially stops nearly all pistol rounds known to exist except some 22 mag and 5.7 FN cartridges. Also this will stop some very low velocity rifle and most shotgun projectiles. Keep in mind, this only works where the body is protected. Every officer I know of who has been shot whether they be dead or alive was hit in places other than the vest. These vests do not stop 99% of rifle rounds. A bullet fired from a 30.06 or a .223 will go through them like a hot knife through butter. Now there are some tactical vests that are level 3s which also have a ballistic plate in front and or the rear. These don’t offer much coverage but better than nothing. These plates will stop several impacts from an AK47, Ar-15 or a 450 marlin. Given that suspects and many cops are not the most stellar marksman while they are being shot at, even officers wearing these vests often get hit everywhere else except the plate. Enough said there.

Camo Uniforms:  Actually this is rare. My former agency doesn’t have any I have ever seen, but they do wear Olive Drab on the Tactical Team (SWAT, Special Assignments etc..) The vast majority of the other equipment they wear is also green or the same as the military uses. These officers are not running around on patrol wearing this stuff. They are exclusively used for high-risk situations so you will never see them. I live in the same city I worked and to this day I have never seen any patrol cops dressed in camo or anything other than the LAPD blue patrol uniform. I'm sure it happens here or there but as a matter of regular duty uniform I highly doubt it.

Some may say, well why do they need a military uniform??? Well these uniforms need to be functional for what they are doing, be durable and also flame retardant (nomex). The LAPD blue polyester uniform is not a good SWAT uniform. I wore mine a couple times on emergency callouts that lasted nearly a day and they were trashed when I was done.
Ultimately what does it matter? Once a situation has deteriorated to the point that someone is spraying bullets, has hostages or is trying to escape into the community to either get away or continue to do harm; who cares about their sensibilities when it comes to the cop’s current fashion statement?

Armored Vehicles:  I love this part. First of all, the conversation here makes it sound like the cops are out patrolling the city in these things. Like the military vests and camo uniforms discussed above, I have never seen this happen where I live or in the surrounding area. I have seen these vehicles, but they were obviously going to an incident, training or maintenance.

There are many types. As for the MRAPs, there are a lot out there, but most are sidelined because no one knows how to maintain them and most of the agencies who got them can’t afford the parts. So they are being stored for the most part. In my local area (6 million people) I don’t know of any agency that has one. Almost all use the bearcat because it was designed to deploy and protect cops and it does that very well. I won’t say how many my agency has, but it is more than 1. I only wish we had them when I was a tactical officer. In the past, most agencies used decommissioned armored cars.

What is an armored vehicle used for? Well it is used to deliver officers right into a hot scene while being protected or as a means of extracting people from gun battles with some armor to protect them. We have done this with civilians and cops. They are used to breach fortified homes while under fire…yes this happens and we have done it several times. In the Ferguson riot situation is was a platform higher than the crown where the observers (snipers) can watch the crowd from a vantage point and warn the front line about people approaching with bricks, weapons etc. If someone starts shooting, they have a hard time hiding from the guy on top of the armored car. The car also offers cover from bricks. Riot shields do not offer much protection from bricks.

Patrol cars with armor: Most new patrol cars these days come with an option to have ballistic panels inserted in the doors. The windows are still made of glass and the body of the car is still made of steel which handgun and rifle rounds will penetrate to varying degrees. Most agencies do not have these ballistic panels in their vehicles.
K-9 Use:  Oftentimes the public will ask why a K9 wasn’t used instead of some other form of force. Well simple reason: 99% of cops don’t have a dog in their car and many agencies don’t have one at all. The majority of incidents happen within a minute or two of contact and is over with at this point. Go research how much a dog, the training and the handler cost and get back with me if you still think you as a taxpayer can afford it. Oh, and when we do use a dog it is almost always labeled as excessive or racist anyway. They are a great tool though and they are used as often as necessary and when they are available. My agency always had 2-3 available each night, but they rarely could get to an incident before it was over. While a tactical officer we used the k9 all the time with great results.
TASER:  This is one of the best tools ever and it saves lives every day. Some people who would have otherwise been shot have lived productive lives and continued to commit even more crime. Perhgaps in some cases the bullet would have been a better option, but I digress. I easily would have at least 4 more shootings to my credit if it were not for the TASER. I’ll leave it at that.
Officers with mental health training:   Many police shootings involve a mentally ill person. I was involved in a suicide by cop. Wasn’t much time to get out a couch and talk things over with him as he opened up on us with a handgun as soon as we got to the house. That is how most of them go because they want us to kill them. Many police agencies get officers trained in how to deal with mentally ill people, but given the time necessary, the expense and the logistics of all of it; it is not feasible to train everyone. Cops get pretty good at it though due to experience. Looking back I probably dealt with a mentally ill person every single shift if I was to average out the encounters. I only got in a shooting with one so I feel pretty good about the results.
Officer Involved Shootings:   I Love this topic because it is so misrepresented and misunderstood.

The best line ever is,  “I don’t know why you guys shoot so many people, my uncle was a cop and he never even took his gun out of the holster cept to go poop.?”  My response is well that was 30 years ago and it wasn’t socially acceptable to shoot cops like it is now.
Anyway, this all depends on where you work. I spent the first 8 yrs working swings and graves in the nicest part of town and frankly I don’t know if I had a shift where we were not taking people off at gunpoint. Im sure there were some, but just to make up for it some shifts I did it three or four times. We had tons of gang activity and white trash meth heads in my precinct so gunplay isn’t too unusual. I recall one shift, my buddy and I were on a call and he ended up killing a suspect who attacked him with a knife. Before the end of shift, another officer just a mile south of us ended up in a shooting with another guy attacking people with a knife. Our area had shots fired calls every single shift, every single hour of the night and many times we got there and there were people on scene with holes in them. Some were dead and some alive. Sounds pretty bad, but is doesn’t even hold a candle to LA.

Most officer involved shootings happen within seconds of making contact with the suspect. Sometimes you don’t even get to get out of your car. One buddy of mine got shot several times as soon as he knocked on a door and another one took a couple rounds as soon as he drove up on the call. The other responding officers killed both suspects who did those shootings.

I have personally been in two shootings and on-scene for between 15 and 20 others. A couple were while I was a Tactical Officer (SWAT) and the rest while in patrol. I have been shot at quite a bit mostly by pistols, but for sure one AK47, couple AR15s and a shotgun. I was on scene for a shooting with a suicide by cop guy who in my opinion didn’t need to get shot (yet), but was by someone who was more scared for their life than I was at the time so I guess its all good. We paid out on a lawsuit on that one. Small payout, but we lost the claim nonetheless.

Body cams will bring more of this to real life in the future, but for now you will have to just believe we don’t want to get into these shootings. I and we will pull the trigger if it comes do a decision between which of us gets to die though. I will say that much.

As for the “high frequency” of these shootings, there are less now than there have been in a long time. They just get more publicity now. While I worked patrol, only about half the shootings our dept got involved with ever made the paper or the TV.
“Just shoot them in the arm or leg or use Judo…”  You do it idiot if you are that good.

Here is the deal; that is often said about dealing with knife wielding suspects.  As many stabbings and shootings I have seen I can comfortable say I would rather get shot than stabbed. My job description doesn’t say I need to take a slashing knife attack just so I can nicely get a suspect into cuffs. People who want us to do that have never seen knife wounds. If you want to see some Google is your friend. As for me: pull a knife on me and I will shoot you. I may even give you some verbals to drop the knife if you give me a chance.
Cops are never held accountable or arrested for crimes:  False- I personally have arrested two cops. My agency has arrested several of our officers over the years for a variety of stuff. The administration at nearly every agency I have associated with is regarded as mush more perilous to an officer’s career than the public can be. In Arizona we have an organization which oversees and review terminations (AZPOST). Go to their website and read about the various things cops get terminated for here.

In the personal lives of cops, per-capita we are much less likely to break any law (except for traffic laws) than their own neighbors. Just in my own neighborhood I know of several people who are regular law-breakers and many of them are in my ward. Stealing, fraud, drugs and other violations. The other ones I don’t know about because the ward gossip mill doesn’t know about it.
ON EDIT...I forgot Guns: We carry Glocks primarily. Flashlights can be mounted to these pistols to aid in building searches and free up an officer's support hand to do other things like...suppor the pistol to increase the quality of marksmanship.

Ar-15s. Yep lots out there. In my region we went to these about 15 yrs ago after there were several gunbattles with suspects who wewre armed with AR15s or AK47s and wearing body armor. Traditionally at that time SWAT teams were armed with MP5 submachine guns (terrific CQB weapon for its time btw) which are 9mm. These bullets dont go through body armor so we got AR15s instead. Also the patrol shotgun went largely by the wayside becuase an officer could more effectively handle an AR15 as opposed to a shotgun shooting slug or 00Buck. The ar15 ammo we use is tipped with Hornady vmax (or similar) bullets as they are highly frangible and dont go through much in terms of barriers or people.

I have only seen a few that are full auto and they reside with the swat team. The majority of these rifles are in the cars of patrol officers and they are semi-auto.
Anyway- just some of my experiences with police work. I am also a critic of cops to some degree, but this militarization thing is a bunch of garbage. I mean think about it: The average ratio of cop to citizen in the US is 2/1000. Does anyone really think that the police could take over our communities? I know in my city the ratio is more like 1.25/1000 so even less of a chance.

Oftentimes the equipment they carry is military style in terms of looks or firepower. As for looks, yes. As for firepower, not even close. My platoon in Iraq had 16 humvees, 16 .50 cal MGs, 8 M240B MG, AT4, frags etc and everyone with an M4 carbine or M249 SAW.  50 troops armed like that. I have never seen any police organization in this entire country who has that kind of firepower at their disposal. I know for a fact if I brought in that Platoon to this city I could lay waste to a significant number of the cops before we were nickel and dimed to death by the armed citizen or police. Until that time, though the police would have a heck of a job on their hands dealing with firepower that can trash cop cars and buildings from 1000 meters.  Their helicopters would only get a couple passes before the airspace was filled with 50 cal rounds.

People who say the cops firepower mirrors the military are crazy. They say that because their view is based not on knowledge, but on suppositions and fear. Go join the Army or Marines if you want to see what firepower is. Compared to that, our police might as well not even be armed.

So- militarization???? Not even close. As a former cop and military guy I can comfortably say we have nothing to worry about. If you are worried about it quit participating in riots and running a methlab in your home or dealing arms. If you are not doing those things you have nothing to worry about. I am in the same boat as you and I lose not one wink of sleep over it.
I will close with this: There is not one single police agency who has written in its job description that police officers are supposed to get stabbed, shot, beaten up etc.  The law doesn’t even mandate we subject ourselves to that risk. In fact, the law has established that we have absolutely no duty at all to risk out lives for anyone. The law does stipulate though (at least in AZ) that a police officer has no duty whatsoever to retreat….. ie run away.  That isn’t in our nature anyway, but in the future in many municipalities I see the continues hostility towards the police to lead to a situation where they wont get there till it is definitely safe to do so. We are already seeing that is NY, Chicago and a few other places. Their crime is skyrocketing because it is easier for the cops to just go clean up than it is to do their jobs. I mean hey it’s a lot easier to defend what happens if you were never there…LOL  

This is why military style body armor and auto weapons are necessary.

This is my friend getting the crap shot out of him. Read the commentary below the vid for addtl details.
 
 

JFYI- The following soliloquy is based on my experience, not some newspaper article or something my 70 year old uncle who was a cop told me.
 
Background: 24 years combined service in Military and LEO. Served on active duty in the Infantry and as a cop. Nearly 100% of police career was on the street at night on a large agency. Large being a matter of perspective, but it is a serious well-known agency. I was a Tactical officer (SWAT, SAU etc whatever you want to call it) and have been on hundreds of tactical incidents to include at least 100 high-risk warrants). Military-wise two deployments in combat and not behind a typewriter…behind a gun. Retired now thankfully.

Here goes- it is long but it may prove to be informative.
 As long as policing has been around, there have been critics of it from within and without the police community. Generally speaking over the years while I was a cop, our biggest enemy was our own administration. Typically police admins are made up of ladder climbers who did about three years of patrol and a couple other misc assignments and then somehow made it to top tier positions within the dept, but they ultimately know nothing about how to be a cop.

The public was often a bigger supporter of police than the admin was until probably the past ten years or so. Recent publicity surrounding officer involved shootings, militarization etc have led to much more criticism of the police (some deserved, some not) and hence the discussions. Part of the problem with this is that typically the opinion of the police in these matters is often disregarded. TYhe admins become our spokesmen but they are really just politicians and solidify their careers through administrative executions of street cops. The critics in the public are largely so ill informed in these matters it renders their opinions pretty much baseless. Reason being is A- they have no skin in the game other than taxes and B- they have no idea what is going on around them in their communities. Their only experience with the police is getting a ticket and what they see on the news.
Anyway- I’m going to address some things here about the police to help educate. I'm not here to spar, fight or pontificate on all the what-ifs. Just here to give perspective. Several topics are going to be elaborated on so get ready for a long post:
Selection of police officers: All agencies and states have different standards, but they are all similar in the basics. Background, physical/medical/mental. Fact is majority of US citizens including those you sit in church with (LDS too) cannot pass the background check in regards to morals and criminal behavior. A friend of mine who is LDS worked hiring for four years and he told me the backgrounds of the LDS applicants were every bit as screwed up as everyone else. The only reason he could tell some of them were LDS is because of their last name or the fact they spoke fluent Spanish and lived abroad for two year (mission). The general population of the US is ok with a certain level of crime (theft, fraud, drugs, sex offenses) so long as they were the ones doing it. As for all the other issues people vary in intelligence, physical agility and mental health. People often wonder why there are fat cops…well our administrations wont let us work out on duty like the Fire Depts do so legally they cannot enforce physical standards as a standard of continued employment. This being the case, the dept cant fire you for being fat. It is a personal thing if you want to be fit. I worked the street for nearly my entire career and have been involved in wayyy over a couple hundred forceful arrest and violent situations. I felt it was in my best interest to be as fit as possible so if anyone kills me with fists or a choke, they at least get a trip to the hospital to get bullet holes patched, bones set and eyeballs put back in their sockets

Mental health: Police applicants who make it that far in the hiring process undergo a psychological evaluation and yes some wingnuts make it through. Problem here is we are evaluating people for their potential to be mentally resilient to the mental rigors of the job, yet remain calm and collected enough to be able to reason through a situation without flipping out or making a horrible decision. We must remember that outside of someone applying from another agency, these applicants have never done this stuff nor ever been exposed to it. In fact, many nowadays have never been involved in a fist fight at school so we don’t know if they will even engage when called upon to do so.
Our field training programs are generally about 16-20 weeks long depending upon the agency. This is the time where we get to look at a recruit, mentor them and hopefully see them get involved in a violent mess so we can assess their ability to deal with it according to their training. One group we got out of the academy had a new recruit get shot in an ambush on his first night on duty. He still works there.
Bottom line for hiring:  Historically we only find 2/100 applicants suitable for hire. Most Americans cannot make the hiring process for a variety of reasons . This includes most of you reading this. That is for even the agencies with the lamest of hiring standards. That isn’t meant to be a slam, it is reality.

As the US has hundreds of agencies nationwide, the standard for hiring and training varies and is often geared towards LOCAL norms and community expectations. The larger agencies (500+ Officers) usually are on a similar sheet of music when it comes to standards, training and tactics. Many are members of CALEA.
Body Armor:  When these discussions of militarization come up oftentimes the exterior “military style” vests are a topic of discussion. Most of what you see on the street is a street cop is wearing it is what is called an “outer vest.” This is usually just a regular patrol vest in a different form. With all the equipment cops have to carry now, it is much easier to carry that stuff on an outer vest and leave the pistol, ammo and cuffs on a belt. Most agencies require a patrol officer to carry on their person   a pistol, three magazines of ammo, pepper spray, two handcuffs, expandable baton, taser w/extra cartridge, pens, notebook/cards, radio, vest etc… My old agency you could be disciplined if caught not carrying that stuff. The outer vest makes that easier and also it has been found to reduce the number of lower back issues. Back issues sideline many cops during the last 5 yrs of their career and you as a taxpayer get to pay for their medical and tax free retirement….so we are just saving you money.
Back to the vest: A patrol vest typically is a level 2 or 3 which essentially stops nearly all pistol rounds known to exist except some 22 mag and 5.7 FN cartridges. Also this will stop some very low velocity rifle and most shotgun projectiles. Keep in mind, this only works where the body is protected. Every officer I know of who has been shot whether they be dead or alive was hit in places other than the vest. These vests do not stop 99% of rifle rounds. A bullet fired from a 30.06 or a .223 will go through them like a hot knife through butter. Now there are some tactical vests that are level 3s which also have a ballistic plate in front and or the rear. These don’t offer much coverage but better than nothing. These plates will stop several impacts from an AK47, Ar-15 or a 450 marlin. Given that suspects and many cops are not the most stellar marksman while they are being shot at, even officers wearing these vests often get hit everywhere else except the plate. Enough said there.

Camo Uniforms:  Actually this is rare. My former agency doesn’t have any I have ever seen, but they do wear Olive Drab on the Tactical Team (SWAT, Special Assignments etc..) The vast majority of the other equipment they wear is also green or the same as the military uses. These officers are not running around on patrol wearing this stuff. They are exclusively used for high-risk situations so you will never see them. I live in the same city I worked and to this day I have never seen any patrol cops dressed in camo or anything other than the LAPD blue patrol uniform. I'm sure it happens here or there but as a matter of regular duty uniform I highly doubt it.

Some may say, well why do they need a military uniform??? Well these uniforms need to be functional for what they are doing, be durable and also flame retardant (nomex). The LAPD blue polyester uniform is not a good SWAT uniform. I wore mine a couple times on emergency callouts that lasted nearly a day and they were trashed when I was done.
Ultimately what does it matter? Once a situation has deteriorated to the point that someone is spraying bullets, has hostages or is trying to escape into the community to either get away or continue to do harm; who cares about their sensibilities when it comes to the cop’s current fashion statement?

Armored Vehicles:  I love this part. First of all, the conversation here makes it sound like the cops are out patrolling the city in these things. Like the military vests and camo uniforms discussed above, I have never seen this happen where I live or in the surrounding area. I have seen these vehicles, but they were obviously going to an incident, training or maintenance.

There are many types. As for the MRAPs, there are a lot out there, but most are sidelined because no one knows how to maintain them and most of the agencies who got them can’t afford the parts. So they are being stored for the most part. In my local area (6 million people) I don’t know of any agency that has one. Almost all use the bearcat because it was designed to deploy and protect cops and it does that very well. I won’t say how many my agency has, but it is more than 1. I only wish we had them when I was a tactical officer. In the past, most agencies used decommissioned armored cars.

What is an armored vehicle used for? Well it is used to deliver officers right into a hot scene while being protected or as a means of extracting people from gun battles with some armor to protect them. We have done this with civilians and cops. They are used to breach fortified homes while under fire…yes this happens and we have done it several times. In the Ferguson riot situation is was a platform higher than the crown where the observers (snipers) can watch the crowd from a vantage point and warn the front line about people approaching with bricks, weapons etc. If someone starts shooting, they have a hard time hiding from the guy on top of the armored car. The car also offers cover from bricks. Riot shields do not offer much protection from bricks.

Patrol cars with armor: Most new patrol cars these days come with an option to have ballistic panels inserted in the doors. The windows are still made of glass and the body of the car is still made of steel which handgun and rifle rounds will penetrate to varying degrees. Most agencies do not have these ballistic panels in their vehicles.
K-9 Use:  Oftentimes the public will ask why a K9 wasn’t used instead of some other form of force. Well simple reason: 99% of cops don’t have a dog in their car and many agencies don’t have one at all. The majority of incidents happen within a minute or two of contact and is over with at this point. Go research how much a dog, the training and the handler cost and get back with me if you still think you as a taxpayer can afford it. Oh, and when we do use a dog it is almost always labeled as excessive or racist anyway. They are a great tool though and they are used as often as necessary and when they are available. My agency always had 2-3 available each night, but they rarely could get to an incident before it was over. While a tactical officer we used the k9 all the time with great results.
TASER:  This is one of the best tools ever and it saves lives every day. Some people who would have otherwise been shot have lived productive lives and continued to commit even more crime. Perhgaps in some cases the bullet would have been a better option, but I digress. I easily would have at least 4 more shootings to my credit if it were not for the TASER. I’ll leave it at that.
Officers with mental health training:   Many police shootings involve a mentally ill person. I was involved in a suicide by cop. Wasn’t much time to get out a couch and talk things over with him as he opened up on us with a handgun as soon as we got to the house. That is how most of them go because they want us to kill them. Many police agencies get officers trained in how to deal with mentally ill people, but given the time necessary, the expense and the logistics of all of it; it is not feasible to train everyone. Cops get pretty good at it though due to experience. Looking back I probably dealt with a mentally ill person every single shift if I was to average out the encounters. I only got in a shooting with one so I feel pretty good about the results.
Officer Involved Shootings:   I Love this topic because it is so misrepresented and misunderstood.

The best line ever is,  “I don’t know why you guys shoot so many people, my uncle was a cop and he never even took his gun out of the holster cept to go poop.?”  My response is well that was 30 years ago and it wasn’t socially acceptable to shoot cops like it is now.
Anyway, this all depends on where you work. I spent the first 8 yrs working swings and graves in the nicest part of town and frankly I don’t know if I had a shift where we were not taking people off at gunpoint. Im sure there were some, but just to make up for it some shifts I did it three or four times. We had tons of gang activity and white trash meth heads in my precinct so gunplay isn’t too unusual. I recall one shift, my buddy and I were on a call and he ended up killing a suspect who attacked him with a knife. Before the end of shift, another officer just a mile south of us ended up in a shooting with another guy attacking people with a knife. Our area had shots fired calls every single shift, every single hour of the night and many times we got there and there were people on scene with holes in them. Some were dead and some alive. Sounds pretty bad, but is doesn’t even hold a candle to LA.

Most officer involved shootings happen within seconds of making contact with the suspect. Sometimes you don’t even get to get out of your car. One buddy of mine got shot several times as soon as he knocked on a door and another one took a couple rounds as soon as he drove up on the call. The other responding officers killed both suspects who did those shootings.

I have personally been in two shootings and on-scene for between 15 and 20 others. A couple were while I was a Tactical Officer (SWAT) and the rest while in patrol. I have been shot at quite a bit mostly by pistols, but for sure one AK47, couple AR15s and a shotgun. I was on scene for a shooting with a suicide by cop guy who in my opinion didn’t need to get shot (yet), but was by someone who was more scared for their life than I was at the time so I guess its all good. We paid out on a lawsuit on that one. Small payout, but we lost the claim nonetheless.

Body cams will bring more of this to real life in the future, but for now you will have to just believe we don’t want to get into these shootings. I and we will pull the trigger if it comes do a decision between which of us gets to die though. I will say that much.

As for the “high frequency” of these shootings, there are less now than there have been in a long time. They just get more publicity now. While I worked patrol, only about half the shootings our dept got involved with ever made the paper or the TV.
“Just shoot them in the arm or leg or use Judo…”  You do it idiot if you are that good.

Here is the deal; that is often said about dealing with knife wielding suspects.  As many stabbings and shootings I have seen I can comfortable say I would rather get shot than stabbed. My job description doesn’t say I need to take a slashing knife attack just so I can nicely get a suspect into cuffs. People who want us to do that have never seen knife wounds. If you want to see some Google is your friend. As for me: pull a knife on me and I will shoot you. I may even give you some verbals to drop the knife if you give me a chance.
Cops are never held accountable or arrested for crimes:  False- I personally have arrested two cops. My agency has arrested several of our officers over the years for a variety of stuff. The administration at nearly every agency I have associated with is regarded as mush more perilous to an officer’s career than the public can be. In Arizona we have an organization which oversees and review terminations (AZPOST). Go to their website and read about the various things cops get terminated for here.

In the personal lives of cops, per-capita we are much less likely to break any law (except for traffic laws) than their own neighbors. Just in my own neighborhood I know of several people who are regular law-breakers and many of them are in my ward. Stealing, fraud, drugs and other violations. The other ones I don’t know about because the ward gossip mill doesn’t know about it.
ON EDIT...I forgot Guns: We carry Glocks primarily. Flashlights can be mounted to these pistols to aid in building searches and free up an officer's support hand to do other things like...suppor the pistol to increase the quality of marksmanship.

Ar-15s. Yep lots out there. In my region we went to these about 15 yrs ago after there were several gunbattles with suspects who wewre armed with AR15s or AK47s and wearing body armor. Traditionally at that time SWAT teams were armed with MP5 submachine guns (terrific CQB weapon for its time btw) which are 9mm. These bullets dont go through body armor so we got AR15s instead. Also the patrol shotgun went largely by the wayside becuase an officer could more effectively handle an AR15 as opposed to a shotgun shooting slug or 00Buck. The ar15 ammo we use is tipped with Hornady vmax (or similar) bullets as they are highly frangible and dont go through much in terms of barriers or people.

I have only seen a few that are full auto and they reside with the swat team. The majority of these rifles are in the cars of patrol officers and they are semi-auto.
Anyway- just some of my experiences with police work. I am also a critic of cops to some degree, but this militarization thing is a bunch of garbage. I mean think about it: The average ratio of cop to citizen in the US is 2/1000. Does anyone really think that the police could take over our communities? I know in my city the ratio is more like 1.25/1000 so even less of a chance.

Oftentimes the equipment they carry is military style in terms of looks or firepower. As for looks, yes. As for firepower, not even close. My platoon in Iraq had 16 humvees, 16 .50 cal MGs, 8 M240B MG, AT4, frags etc and everyone with an M4 carbine or M249 SAW.  50 troops armed like that. I have never seen any police organization in this entire country who has that kind of firepower at their disposal. I know for a fact if I brought in that Platoon to this city I could lay waste to a significant number of the cops before we were nickel and dimed to death by the armed citizen or police. Until that time, though the police would have a heck of a job on their hands dealing with firepower that can trash cop cars and buildings from 1000 meters.  Their helicopters would only get a couple passes before the airspace was filled with 50 cal rounds.

People who say the cops firepower mirrors the military are crazy. They say that because their view is based not on knowledge, but on suppositions and fear. Go join the Army or Marines if you want to see what firepower is. Compared to that, our police might as well not even be armed.

So- militarization???? Not even close. As a former cop and military guy I can comfortably say we have nothing to worry about. If you are worried about it quit participating in riots and running a methlab in your home or dealing arms. If you are not doing those things you have nothing to worry about. I am in the same boat as you and I lose not one wink of sleep over it.
I will close with this: There is not one single police agency who has written in its job description that police officers are supposed to get stabbed, shot, beaten up etc.  The law doesn’t even mandate we subject ourselves to that risk. In fact, the law has established that we have absolutely no duty at all to risk out lives for anyone. The law does stipulate though (at least in AZ) that a police officer has no duty whatsoever to retreat….. ie run away.  That isn’t in our nature anyway, but in the future in many municipalities I see the continues hostility towards the police to lead to a situation where they wont get there till it is definitely safe to do so. We are already seeing that is NY, Chicago and a few other places. Their crime is skyrocketing because it is easier for the cops to just go clean up than it is to do their jobs. I mean hey it’s a lot easier to defend what happens if you were never there…LOL  

JFYI- The following soliloquy is based on my experience, not some newspaper article or something my 70 year old uncle who was a cop told me.
 
Background: 24 years combined service in Military and LEO. Served on active duty in the Infantry and as a cop. Nearly 100% of police career was on the street at night on a large agency. Large being a matter of perspective, but it is a serious well-known agency. I was a Tactical officer (SWAT, SAU etc whatever you want to call it) and have been on hundreds of tactical incidents to include at least 100 high-risk warrants). Military-wise two deployments in combat and not behind a typewriter…behind a gun. Retired now thankfully.

Here goes- it is long but it may prove to be informative.
 As long as policing has been around, there have been critics of it from within and without the police community. Generally speaking over the years while I was a cop, our biggest enemy was our own administration. Typically police admins are made up of ladder climbers who did about three years of patrol and a couple other misc assignments and then somehow made it to top tier positions within the dept, but they ultimately know nothing about how to be a cop.

The public was often a bigger supporter of police than the admin was until probably the past ten years or so. Recent publicity surrounding officer involved shootings, militarization etc have led to much more criticism of the police (some deserved, some not) and hence the discussions. Part of the problem with this is that typically the opinion of the police in these matters is often disregarded. TYhe admins become our spokesmen but they are really just politicians and solidify their careers through administrative executions of street cops. The critics in the public are largely so ill informed in these matters it renders their opinions pretty much baseless. Reason being is A- they have no skin in the game other than taxes and B- they have no idea what is going on around them in their communities. Their only experience with the police is getting a ticket and what they see on the news.
Anyway- I’m going to address some things here about the police to help educate. I'm not here to spar, fight or pontificate on all the what-ifs. Just here to give perspective. Several topics are going to be elaborated on so get ready for a long post:
Selection of police officers: All agencies and states have different standards, but they are all similar in the basics. Background, physical/medical/mental. Fact is majority of US citizens including those you sit in church with (LDS too) cannot pass the background check in regards to morals and criminal behavior. A friend of mine who is LDS worked hiring for four years and he told me the backgrounds of the LDS applicants were every bit as screwed up as everyone else. The only reason he could tell some of them were LDS is because of their last name or the fact they spoke fluent Spanish and lived abroad for two year (mission). The general population of the US is ok with a certain level of crime (theft, fraud, drugs, sex offenses) so long as they were the ones doing it. As for all the other issues people vary in intelligence, physical agility and mental health. People often wonder why there are fat cops…well our administrations wont let us work out on duty like the Fire Depts do so legally they cannot enforce physical standards as a standard of continued employment. This being the case, the dept cant fire you for being fat. It is a personal thing if you want to be fit. I worked the street for nearly my entire career and have been involved in wayyy over a couple hundred forceful arrest and violent situations. I felt it was in my best interest to be as fit as possible so if anyone kills me with fists or a choke, they at least get a trip to the hospital to get bullet holes patched, bones set and eyeballs put back in their sockets

Mental health: Police applicants who make it that far in the hiring process undergo a psychological evaluation and yes some wingnuts make it through. Problem here is we are evaluating people for their potential to be mentally resilient to the mental rigors of the job, yet remain calm and collected enough to be able to reason through a situation without flipping out or making a horrible decision. We must remember that outside of someone applying from another agency, these applicants have never done this stuff nor ever been exposed to it. In fact, many nowadays have never been involved in a fist fight at school so we don’t know if they will even engage when called upon to do so.
Our field training programs are generally about 16-20 weeks long depending upon the agency. This is the time where we get to look at a recruit, mentor them and hopefully see them get involved in a violent mess so we can assess their ability to deal with it according to their training. One group we got out of the academy had a new recruit get shot in an ambush on his first night on duty. He still works there.
Bottom line for hiring:  Historically we only find 2/100 applicants suitable for hire. Most Americans cannot make the hiring process for a variety of reasons . This includes most of you reading this. That is for even the agencies with the lamest of hiring standards. That isn’t meant to be a slam, it is reality.

As the US has hundreds of agencies nationwide, the standard for hiring and training varies and is often geared towards LOCAL norms and community expectations. The larger agencies (500+ Officers) usually are on a similar sheet of music when it comes to standards, training and tactics. Many are members of CALEA.
Body Armor:  When these discussions of militarization come up oftentimes the exterior “military style” vests are a topic of discussion. Most of what you see on the street is a street cop is wearing it is what is called an “outer vest.” This is usually just a regular patrol vest in a different form. With all the equipment cops have to carry now, it is much easier to carry that stuff on an outer vest and leave the pistol, ammo and cuffs on a belt. Most agencies require a patrol officer to carry on their person   a pistol, three magazines of ammo, pepper spray, two handcuffs, expandable baton, taser w/extra cartridge, pens, notebook/cards, radio, vest etc… My old agency you could be disciplined if caught not carrying that stuff. The outer vest makes that easier and also it has been found to reduce the number of lower back issues. Back issues sideline many cops during the last 5 yrs of their career and you as a taxpayer get to pay for their medical and tax free retirement….so we are just saving you money.
Back to the vest: A patrol vest typically is a level 2 or 3 which essentially stops nearly all pistol rounds known to exist except some 22 mag and 5.7 FN cartridges. Also this will stop some very low velocity rifle and most shotgun projectiles. Keep in mind, this only works where the body is protected. Every officer I know of who has been shot whether they be dead or alive was hit in places other than the vest. These vests do not stop 99% of rifle rounds. A bullet fired from a 30.06 or a .223 will go through them like a hot knife through butter. Now there are some tactical vests that are level 3s which also have a ballistic plate in front and or the rear. These don’t offer much coverage but better than nothing. These plates will stop several impacts from an AK47, Ar-15 or a 450 marlin. Given that suspects and many cops are not the most stellar marksman while they are being shot at, even officers wearing these vests often get hit everywhere else except the plate. Enough said there.

Camo Uniforms:  Actually this is rare. My former agency doesn’t have any I have ever seen, but they do wear Olive Drab on the Tactical Team (SWAT, Special Assignments etc..) The vast majority of the other equipment they wear is also green or the same as the military uses. These officers are not running around on patrol wearing this stuff. They are exclusively used for high-risk situations so you will never see them. I live in the same city I worked and to this day I have never seen any patrol cops dressed in camo or anything other than the LAPD blue patrol uniform. I'm sure it happens here or there but as a matter of regular duty uniform I highly doubt it.

Some may say, well why do they need a military uniform??? Well these uniforms need to be functional for what they are doing, be durable and also flame retardant (nomex). The LAPD blue polyester uniform is not a good SWAT uniform. I wore mine a couple times on emergency callouts that lasted nearly a day and they were trashed when I was done.
Ultimately what does it matter? Once a situation has deteriorated to the point that someone is spraying bullets, has hostages or is trying to escape into the community to either get away or continue to do harm; who cares about their sensibilities when it comes to the cop’s current fashion statement?

Armored Vehicles:  I love this part. First of all, the conversation here makes it sound like the cops are out patrolling the city in these things. Like the military vests and camo uniforms discussed above, I have never seen this happen where I live or in the surrounding area. I have seen these vehicles, but they were obviously going to an incident, training or maintenance.

There are many types. As for the MRAPs, there are a lot out there, but most are sidelined because no one knows how to maintain them and most of the agencies who got them can’t afford the parts. So they are being stored for the most part. In my local area (6 million people) I don’t know of any agency that has one. Almost all use the bearcat because it was designed to deploy and protect cops and it does that very well. I won’t say how many my agency has, but it is more than 1. I only wish we had them when I was a tactical officer. In the past, most agencies used decommissioned armored cars.

What is an armored vehicle used for? Well it is used to deliver officers right into a hot scene while being protected or as a means of extracting people from gun battles with some armor to protect them. We have done this with civilians and cops. They are used to breach fortified homes while under fire…yes this happens and we have done it several times. In the Ferguson riot situation is was a platform higher than the crown where the observers (snipers) can watch the crowd from a vantage point and warn the front line about people approaching with bricks, weapons etc. If someone starts shooting, they have a hard time hiding from the guy on top of the armored car. The car also offers cover from bricks. Riot shields do not offer much protection from bricks.

Patrol cars with armor: Most new patrol cars these days come with an option to have ballistic panels inserted in the doors. The windows are still made of glass and the body of the car is still made of steel which handgun and rifle rounds will penetrate to varying degrees. Most agencies do not have these ballistic panels in their vehicles.
K-9 Use:  Oftentimes the public will ask why a K9 wasn’t used instead of some other form of force. Well simple reason: 99% of cops don’t have a dog in their car and many agencies don’t have one at all. The majority of incidents happen within a minute or two of contact and is over with at this point. Go research how much a dog, the training and the handler cost and get back with me if you still think you as a taxpayer can afford it. Oh, and when we do use a dog it is almost always labeled as excessive or racist anyway. They are a great tool though and they are used as often as necessary and when they are available. My agency always had 2-3 available each night, but they rarely could get to an incident before it was over. While a tactical officer we used the k9 all the time with great results.
TASER:  This is one of the best tools ever and it saves lives every day. Some people who would have otherwise been shot have lived productive lives and continued to commit even more crime. Perhgaps in some cases the bullet would have been a better option, but I digress. I easily would have at least 4 more shootings to my credit if it were not for the TASER. I’ll leave it at that.
Officers with mental health training:   Many police shootings involve a mentally ill person. I was involved in a suicide by cop. Wasn’t much time to get out a couch and talk things over with him as he opened up on us with a handgun as soon as we got to the house. That is how most of them go because they want us to kill them. Many police agencies get officers trained in how to deal with mentally ill people, but given the time necessary, the expense and the logistics of all of it; it is not feasible to train everyone. Cops get pretty good at it though due to experience. Looking back I probably dealt with a mentally ill person every single shift if I was to average out the encounters. I only got in a shooting with one so I feel pretty good about the results.
Officer Involved Shootings:   I Love this topic because it is so misrepresented and misunderstood.

The best line ever is,  “I don’t know why you guys shoot so many people, my uncle was a cop and he never even took his gun out of the holster cept to go poop.?”  My response is well that was 30 years ago and it wasn’t socially acceptable to shoot cops like it is now.
Anyway, this all depends on where you work. I spent the first 8 yrs working swings and graves in the nicest part of town and frankly I don’t know if I had a shift where we were not taking people off at gunpoint. Im sure there were some, but just to make up for it some shifts I did it three or four times. We had tons of gang activity and white trash meth heads in my precinct so gunplay isn’t too unusual. I recall one shift, my buddy and I were on a call and he ended up killing a suspect who attacked him with a knife. Before the end of shift, another officer just a mile south of us ended up in a shooting with another guy attacking people with a knife. Our area had shots fired calls every single shift, every single hour of the night and many times we got there and there were people on scene with holes in them. Some were dead and some alive. Sounds pretty bad, but is doesn’t even hold a candle to LA.

Most officer involved shootings happen within seconds of making contact with the suspect. Sometimes you don’t even get to get out of your car. One buddy of mine got shot several times as soon as he knocked on a door and another one took a couple rounds as soon as he drove up on the call. The other responding officers killed both suspects who did those shootings.

I have personally been in two shootings and on-scene for between 15 and 20 others. A couple were while I was a Tactical Officer (SWAT) and the rest while in patrol. I have been shot at quite a bit mostly by pistols, but for sure one AK47, couple AR15s and a shotgun. I was on scene for a shooting with a suicide by cop guy who in my opinion didn’t need to get shot (yet), but was by someone who was more scared for their life than I was at the time so I guess its all good. We paid out on a lawsuit on that one. Small payout, but we lost the claim nonetheless.

Body cams will bring more of this to real life in the future, but for now you will have to just believe we don’t want to get into these shootings. I and we will pull the trigger if it comes do a decision between which of us gets to die though. I will say that much.

As for the “high frequency” of these shootings, there are less now than there have been in a long time. They just get more publicity now. While I worked patrol, only about half the shootings our dept got involved with ever made the paper or the TV.
“Just shoot them in the arm or leg or use Judo…”  You do it idiot if you are that good.

Here is the deal; that is often said about dealing with knife wielding suspects.  As many stabbings and shootings I have seen I can comfortable say I would rather get shot than stabbed. My job description doesn’t say I need to take a slashing knife attack just so I can nicely get a suspect into cuffs. People who want us to do that have never seen knife wounds. If you want to see some Google is your friend. As for me: pull a knife on me and I will shoot you. I may even give you some verbals to drop the knife if you give me a chance.
Cops are never held accountable or arrested for crimes:  False- I personally have arrested two cops. My agency has arrested several of our officers over the years for a variety of stuff. The administration at nearly every agency I have associated with is regarded as mush more perilous to an officer’s career than the public can be. In Arizona we have an organization which oversees and review terminations (AZPOST). Go to their website and read about the various things cops get terminated for here.

In the personal lives of cops, per-capita we are much less likely to break any law (except for traffic laws) than their own neighbors. Just in my own neighborhood I know of several people who are regular law-breakers and many of them are in my ward. Stealing, fraud, drugs and other violations. The other ones I don’t know about because the ward gossip mill doesn’t know about it.
ON EDIT...I forgot Guns: We carry Glocks primarily. Flashlights can be mounted to these pistols to aid in building searches and free up an officer's support hand to do other things like...suppor the pistol to increase the quality of marksmanship.

Ar-15s. Yep lots out there. In my region we went to these about 15 yrs ago after there were several gunbattles with suspects who wewre armed with AR15s or AK47s and wearing body armor. Traditionally at that time SWAT teams were armed with MP5 submachine guns (terrific CQB weapon for its time btw) which are 9mm. These bullets dont go through body armor so we got AR15s instead. Also the patrol shotgun went largely by the wayside becuase an officer could more effectively handle an AR15 as opposed to a shotgun shooting slug or 00Buck. The ar15 ammo we use is tipped with Hornady vmax (or similar) bullets as they are highly frangible and dont go through much in terms of barriers or people.

I have only seen a few that are full auto and they reside with the swat team. The majority of these rifles are in the cars of patrol officers and they are semi-auto.
Anyway- just some of my experiences with police work. I am also a critic of cops to some degree, but this militarization thing is a bunch of garbage. I mean think about it: The average ratio of cop to citizen in the US is 2/1000. Does anyone really think that the police could take over our communities? I know in my city the ratio is more like 1.25/1000 so even less of a chance.

Oftentimes the equipment they carry is military style in terms of looks or firepower. As for looks, yes. As for firepower, not even close. My platoon in Iraq had 16 humvees, 16 .50 cal MGs, 8 M240B MG, AT4, frags etc and everyone with an M4 carbine or M249 SAW.  50 troops armed like that. I have never seen any police organization in this entire country who has that kind of firepower at their disposal. I know for a fact if I brought in that Platoon to this city I could lay waste to a significant number of the cops before we were nickel and dimed to death by the armed citizen or police. Until that time, though the police would have a heck of a job on their hands dealing with firepower that can trash cop cars and buildings from 1000 meters.  Their helicopters would only get a couple passes before the airspace was filled with 50 cal rounds.

People who say the cops firepower mirrors the military are crazy. They say that because their view is based not on knowledge, but on suppositions and fear. Go join the Army or Marines if you want to see what firepower is. Compared to that, our police might as well not even be armed.

So- militarization???? Not even close. As a former cop and military guy I can comfortably say we have nothing to worry about. If you are worried about it quit participating in riots and running a methlab in your home or dealing arms. If you are not doing those things you have nothing to worry about. I am in the same boat as you and I lose not one wink of sleep over it.
I will close with this: There is not one single police agency who has written in its job description that police officers are supposed to get stabbed, shot, beaten up etc.  The law doesn’t even mandate we subject ourselves to that risk. In fact, the law has established that we have absolutely no duty at all to risk out lives for anyone. The law does stipulate though (at least in AZ) that a police officer has no duty whatsoever to retreat….. ie run away.  That isn’t in our nature anyway, but in the future in many municipalities I see the continues hostility towards the police to lead to a situation where they wont get there till it is definitely safe to do so. We are already seeing that is NY, Chicago and a few other places. Their crime is skyrocketing because it is easier for the cops to just go clean up than it is to do their jobs. I mean hey it’s a lot easier to defend what happens if you were never there…LOL