punaboy

Faerie, you may stand by your statements all you want...you just can't support them Here's a link to an article that explains some of the history of your inhumane ideology: http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...sb=5&o=21∂= and here's a passage from the above that presents my point clearly: "Cultural affinities The esprit that many Americans have with Israel is rooted in a common historical mission. Each country was settled in part by victims fleeing religious persecution who fashioned a new nation rooted in high ideals with a political system based on relatively progressive and democratic institutions. And both peoples established their new nations through the oppression, massacre and dislocation of indigenous populations. Like many Israelis, Americans often confuse genuine religious faith with nationalist ideology. John Winthrop, the influential 17th-century Puritan theologian, saw America as the "City on the Hill" (Zion) and "a light upon nations". In effect, there is a kind of American Zionism assuming a divinely inspired singularity that excuses what would otherwise be considered unacceptable behavior. Just as Winthrop defended the slaughter of the indigenous Pequot peoples of colonial Massachusetts as part of a divine plan, 19th-century theologians defended America's westward expansion as "manifest destiny" and the will of God. Such theologically rooted aggrandizement did not stop at the Pacific Ocean: the invasion of the Philippines in the 1890s was justified by president William McKinley and others as part of an effort to "uplift" and "Christianize" the natives, ignoring the fact that Filipinos (who by that time had nearly rid the country of Spanish colonialists and had established the first democratic constitution in Asia) were already more than 90% Christian. Similarly, today - in the eyes of the Christian Right - the Bush doctrine and the expansion of US military and economic power are all part of a divine plan. For example, in their 2003 Christmas card, Vice President ###### Cheney and his wife Lynne included the quote, "And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" But is such thinking normative in the US? Polls show that the ideological gap between Christian conservatives and other Americans regarding the US invasion of Iraq and the "war on terrorism" is even higher than the ideological gap between Christian conservatives and other Americans regarding Israel and Palestine." Hey Laureltree, why did you delete my previous post on this thread?

Hi Snow: I am certain that in real life you may well be a nice fellow. However, when it comes to message board pontificating - you are not a bright snow, not a clever snow, not an educated snow. While that is certainly no crime, for all our sakes, I suggest you not broadcast that fact so freely.

Like Hitler, GW (and his Poppy and Prescott before him) is also a member of a secret occult society (with German origins) that glorifies death, Skull and Bones. Hitler was in the Thule Society branch. Also like Hitler, GW made his claim to "unusual emergency powers" after a very suspicious fire in a prominent government building. Florida's election was so messed up, we'll never know the details. But my reference was to the fact that Bush was "awarded the presidency" by a cabal, not by the voters. BTW Faerie, you have a cute laugh :)

actually, speaking as one who is not an "hard-core liberal", whatever that is, I also see some obvious parallels between Bush and Hitler. Even leaving aside the fact that the Bush family fortune was built upon financing Hitler and the Third Reich, GW enjoys some close parallels with Hitler. Most obviously, like Hitler he is unelected to his current governmental position, having been "appointed" by a cabal, and also like Hitler, he has since claimed unparalleled and extralegal powers as supreme head of state. Second, he has presided over a massive restriction in civil and human rights in the name of national security, just like Adolf. Third, he has invaded a sovereign nation on fraudulent grounds, just like Hitler invaded Poland by fraud. Really, I could go on and on with this (need I mention the archipelago of "gulags" and secret prison camps where people are tortured and disappeared?), but there are numerous parallels between Bush and Hitler.

you are the one who made your comments, don't blame me when others notice the lack of integrity in your ideology and you look bad. The fact is, your comments are essentially the same as those of apologists for the British Empire, which was/is notorious for such racist ideologies. The British actually published their ideology of the necessity of British imperialism, based on the idea of the "White Man's Burden" to civilize the world, which is well-known and historical. Americans liked to apply such ideology to their affairs as well, calling it "Manifest Destiny", and while not (always, anyway) specifically employing racist terminology, the understanding was (is?) clear that Anglo America was called by God to conquer, first the North American continent, and then, "Onward!!! (hoo-rah!!)", in a grand and holy effort to "civilize the heathen savages" of the entire globe. Read some history, it's all there. Today, such racists call the current world invasion "destroying the evildoers", or "spreading holy democracy", or other such drech, but it is just the (racist) crusades all over again. If this regressive ideology now seems racist to you, and if racism is truly repugnant to you, perhaps you should reconsider your stance. And if and when you do wake up, could you please ask your "elected representatives" to withdraw their USA occupation troops from sovereign Hawaii? We want our stolen kingdom back. But my comments were not specifically directed only to the racism inherent in your comments, racism is only one of the bogus excuses I mentioned in my example. The real problem here is mass murder, and racism is just one of the excuses used by mass murderers to justify their genocides. If you can defend your ideology, then defend it. But as usual, you just try to divert, change the subject, and attack the messenger.

Snow, I did not "apologize to myself", as you try to put it. I simply accepted Faerie's failure to respond to my query, as her apology. If she wants to explain her comments or refute mine, I am sure she is quite capable of doing so without your help. But she remains silent here. So I accept her apology for making untrue comments about me, elegance itself. Has nothing to do with "desperation" which is wholly your fiction. Quite a humorous exchange, actually...

so Faerie, perhaps you'll show me where I have dissed "white people"? Or as usual, will you just cut and run? you are caught out in jingoistic "hate speech", and instead of defending your ideologies, you accuse me of racism...nice!

Snow say: " Now that's about a big an example of desperation as I've ever seen. You apologize to yourself on behalf of someone else and then you make a point of telling others that you accept your own apology." ahhh, snow... and what, pray tell, am I so "desperate" (in your terms) about, hmmm?

Faerie says: " what he actually said still went WHOOSH over your head peon...or perhaps you're too obsessed w/ spelling to notice..." being charitable, I will take your failure to respond to my requests for a clarification of your above unsupporable statement as an apology, which I accept.

Tr2 says: "I wonder if this fool has bothered to realize that, despite the prisoner abuse in Iraq was wrong, every one of those prisoners is alive. " patently false statement, there are proven deaths of prisoners in US custody, with more being revealed everyday... US military personnel are being investigated and charged with these murders.

PD says: "incidentally, the number of sarin and mustard gas weapons that have been found is up to ten. They're there, all right." hmmm... "Warheads found in Iraq not chemical weapons, military says Fri Jul 2, 2:44 PM ET BAGHDAD (AFP) - Multinational forces in Iraq (news - web sites) said that more than a dozen missile warheads said to contain mustard gas or sarin have tested negative for chemical agents. Washington had announced the find by Polish troops on Thursday, which was later confirmed by Warsaw. The head of Poland's military intelligence service also said on Friday that "terrorist" groups were seeking to acquire the weapons. But the 122mm warheads, found in late June, have been found not to contain the deadly chemicals, a statement from multinational forces here said. "Those 16 rounds were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals," it said. Two other warheads found in mid-June were found to contain an insignificant amount of sarin gas. The armaments were left over from the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s, the statement said. "Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against coalition forces." Washington justified leading the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 by claiming the country was harbouring weapons of mass destruction. However, none has yet been found. "

Faerie says: "we should not hoarde our freedom, we should ensure that everyone in the world has the same rights and protections from tyranny and oppression...granted it's impossible to go and hunt down every tyrant...but we can make the attempt..." ergo: "We should not hoard our (fill in with your choice--true divine religion, sacred political/economic system, race, culture), we should ensure that everyone in the world has the same rights and protection from tyranny and oppression...granted it's impossible to go and hunt down every (infidel, commie, colored, foreigner)...but we can make the attempt..." Just how is your statement any different from the position of all crusaders and jihadists down thru the ages? Sounds a lot like "white man's burden" jingoism, responsible for endless mass murder. Your hubris prevents you from respecting the sovereignty of others...

May 8, 04: The Bush administration was bracing itself last night for the release of new pictures and video footage from Abu Ghraib which show US soldiers having sex with an Iraqi woman prisoner, troops almost beating a prisoner to death, and the rape of young boys by Iraqi guards at the jail. Senior officials have warned that the new images and details of the abuse and torture at the prison west of Baghdad will be even more shocking than those already released. They will undoubtedly place even more pressure on President George Bush and his beleaguered Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, as they desperately try to limit the political damage from the growing scandal. US military confirms existence of horrific pictures and video By Andrew Buncombe in Washington NBC News has quoted military officials as saying that the new photographs also show US soldiers "acting inappropriately with a dead body". This may refer to a picture, which The Washington Post described but did not publish, of Sabrina Harman, one of seven reservists charged with abuses, posing with thumbs up next to a decaying corpse. NBC also reported that the rape of young boys by Iraqi guards, apparently in a special section of the prison, had been filmed by US soldiers. There are even suggestions that the murder of a prisoner has been recorded. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham from South Carolina questioned Mr Rumsfeld on Friday about why the abuse had not been detected earlier. "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." The new images will further rock the Bush administration, suffering its worst crisis yet after photographs showing US army reservists abusing and sexually humiliating prisoners caused international revulsion and outrage. But the knowledge that the abuse was much more widespread, and that there are more shocking images to come, is threatening even more problems for Mr Bush as he prepares to hand over sovereignty to an Iraqi government on 30 June. Further evidence emerged, meanwhile, that the abuse of prisoners by military police reservists was ordered by military intelligence officers, CIA operatives or even by privately hired civilian interrogators. Ms Harman said they were told to break the prisoners down in preparation for questioning. "They would bring in one or several prisoners at a time already hooded and cuffed. The job of the MP [military police] was to keep them awake, make it hell so they would talk," Ms Harman, 26, from northern Virginia, told The Washington Post. "The person who brought them in would set the standards on whether or not to 'be nice'." A total of seven reservists from the 372nd Military Police Company based in Cumberland, Maryland, have now been charged over the abuse, including Lynndie England, 21, who was photographed with a prisoner on a leash. Seven other soldiers have been reprimanded, and several relieved of command. Rumours of the existence of more pictures have been circulating in Washington for days and were confirmed on Friday by Mr Rumsfeld, who said they were "sadistic, cruel and inhuman". The investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, who revealed the extent of the abuse, warned earlier last week: "It's going to get much worse. This kind of stuff was much more widespread. "There are videotapes of stuff that you wouldn't want to mention on national television ... There were things done to young boys." President Bush insisted that while the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was "a stain on our country's honour and reputation", it would not deflect his mission in Iraq. "[The photographs] do not reflect our values," he said. Original Article via Independent Digital

Snow says: Those that can't teach gym, post a 3rd parties thoughts to try and win a debate." Why Snow, is that comment aimed at me? Good thing I never wanted to "teach", especially gym heh. But as you must know, I am not trying to win any debate, especially here at LDStalk. And there is no effort to debate in my posts on this thread. Perhaps you are just offended that anyone might post something you don't approve of? Snow's favorite channel..."all Snow, all the time".

Thanks PD for the link, very informative :)