gfchase

Joseph Smith once said that it was 5,555,000,000 years from the Council in Heaven until Adam was placed on the earth. As I remember the seals are opened at the end of each millennial era and that they are not exact time frames but may vary by many years from era to era. It has been ABOUT 6000 years from the time Adam came out of the garden. Jerry

I am aware of when he said this as I have read it in its entirety. Ambiguous? I think it was pretty straight forward and to the point. I am sure that I have read the statements from those you mention and I think that if you will read them closely you will find that they say something to the order that exaltation is possible without living the law of the Patriarchal Order. In fact Joseph F. also says this. If people are willing to accept less than they can achieve that is their right. I think you should go back and read again what he said. He explains very clearly that you can have one wife through the eternities but cannot obtain ALL of the blessings available without living this law. So the question is what is to be achieved from living it? It is to become like our Father in Heaven. We cannot do that without living this law when the time comes that it is given again. As I said from the beginning this law is very difficult to understand and obey. Even Joseph Smith was reluctant. It took more than 10 years after it was revealed to him for him to bend his will to that of Father. I am not a fundamentalist and I HAVE NEVER IMPLIED THAT PLURAL MARRIAGE MUST BE PRACTICED IN THIS LIFE. In fact if you will go back and READ what I have said you will find that it could be well after this life. It is by the laws of man and God that it not be practiced until the Lord again commands it, which I would suspect will come in the millennium. Jerry

Is this enough authority for you? From Joseph F. Smith: Some people have supposed that the doctrine of*plural*marriage was a sort of superfluity, or non-essential, to the salvation or*exaltation*of mankind. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe, that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an*exaltation*as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I want here to enter my solemn protest against this idea, for I know it is false. There is no blessing promised except upon conditions, and no blessing can be obtained by mankind except by faithful compliance with the conditions, or law, upon which the same is promised. The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the will of God, is a fulfillment of the celestial law of marriage in part—and is good so far as it goes—and so far as a man abides these conditions of the law, he will receive his reward therefor, and this reward, or blessing, he could not obtain on any other grounds or conditions. But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it. Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. He cannot do it. When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith, he very naturally shrank, in his feelings, from the responsibilities thereby imposed upon him; foreseeing, as he did in part, the apparently insurmountable difficulties in the way of establishing it, in the face of the popular opinion, the traditions and customs of many generations, the frowns, ridicule, slander, opposition and persecutions of the word. Yes, this man of God, who dared to meet the opposition of the whole world with bold and fearless front, who dared to dispute the religious authority and accumulated learning and wisdom of the age—who dared everything for the truth, and shrank not even from the sacrifice of his own life in testimony of his divine mission, shrank, in his feelings, from the weight of the responsibility of inaugurating and establishing this new innovation upon the established customs of the world. But he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him; and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected, that he moved forward to reveal and establish that doctrine. Jerry

Absolutely little children will inherit eternal life. They will not however live it as children. As adults they will be given spouses and will live the eternal law. D&C 132:24-39 is the core but the entire section should be read. Please read and ponder prayerfully and you should come to understand. 24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law. 25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. 26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God. 27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord. 28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was. 29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne. 30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them. 31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself. 32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved. 33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham. 34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises. 35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it. 36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. 38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. 39 David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord. Jerry

It was a question that I had had for several years and had spent quite a lot of time thinking about. Jerry

Having spent several years on other forums, I would have to say that you are the rare exception rather than the rule, but then again the forums I have been on have had a lot of hard core close minded people who look for any little thing to twist and turn to make a point that they know is inaccurate. They troll the internet looking for anything they might use to make the church look bad. So perhaps I am being a little protective. I have read several of your posts and find you to be pretty fair minded in what I have read and I thank you for that. Jerry

I am not aware of anything that says that Ephraim can discern BETTER. That being said, it makes some sense in that in the past more of Ephraim has been converted than the other tribes. The Bible, in Genesis I believe, (without looking it up)tells us that Ephraim initially would receive the restored gospel and it is to Ephraim that the other tribes will flow. As I have seen the growth of the Church over the years, it was first Ephraim and now from what I understand more of Manasseh are converted because the conversions in Central and South America are outpacing that of Ephraim and there in Central and South America, large numbers of Manasseh are found. Additionally we are seeing more and more of the other tribes. Primarily It is Israel that will accept the gospel with only a smattering of gentiles accepting it. Confusion sometimes comes into play because tribes other than Judah are sometimes referred to as gentiles, perhaps because the bloodlines of Judah would remained more pure. Gentiles with no blood of Israel are adopted into one of the tribes upon conversion. Jerry

Leah - After posting that statement last night I left home and did not return until late. I thought about it and wished that I had phrased it a little differently and I realized that I might get your first question from someone. It might be possible, though I think very unlikely that a revelation might come to an individual before a prophet. It makes no sense to me that that might be the case but I cannot prove it. I do know that prophets receive revelation but are sometimes told to withhold it from the world. We need look no further that the Book of Mormon to find several instances of this. If a revelation did come to an individual first, it would not be their right to divulge it for what is meant for the world ALWAYS comes through a prophet. A particular personal revelation that I received came after a long period of contemplation. I had found nothing in scripture or in the words of prophets to either support or disprove a common teaching that simply did not make sense to me. While in the temple an answer came that made perfect sense and when I went back to the scriptures the answers were there when read in light of what I had been given, but I do not believe that I would have ever come to that understanding without revelation. In this case members have read assorted scriptures and come to conclusions that are wrong because the combination of verses are easily misunderstood and when I understood, it filled my soul with ah and thanksgiving. In this case I cannot possibly imagine that the Prophet did not know. This teaching is something that does not affect our salvation one way or the other. Jerry

Not that these things have not been revealed to the prophets but that the prophets have not revealed them to the church. I am in a hurry now and if necessary will find the references that if we are worthy we can receive that which is not been given to the church for our own learning and edification but we have no right to share it with others and if we do the Lord will cease to teach us further. Also if we are worthy we may have the Lord himself to teach us. We need not be a prophet. Jerry

Suzie - You are right I am a stranger here and you do not know me, so I invite all who have a desire to look up anything I say, to do so. Please never accept anything I or anyone else says on face value no matter how well you may know them. Anyone can be wrong. I am though very careful about what I post because I do believe it is important to be accurate. Jerry

I understand that it is a forum. I have been on many. When someone says that it is their opinion, that is understandable, but unfortunately much is posted as doctrine that is incorrect. There are many non members that read here and it would be good if we present accuracy when with 5 minutes of research we could. As for my posts you may rest assured that I am virtually always doctrinally correct. I do not post what I cannot back up. Do I really expect people to change their habits? Not really. This is just wishful thinking. Jerry

Not to be harsh here but does that not make you or anyone else here spiritually lazy if you post false doctrine, when with a few minutes of research you could be accurate with your posts??? Jerry

The BASIC doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are so simple that even a child of 8 can understand them sufficient to be baptized, but the more we learn the more confusion as to what is doctrine comes creeping in. We all learn line upon line , precept, upon precept, here a little and there a little until we eventually come if we are worthy, to a full understanding of all Fathers knowledge. This of course will be long after our deaths. I find it so very interesting how much personal opinion is passed off as doctrine. This is quite evident from simply reading the posts on this forum. No wonder that so many of our brothers and sisters of other faiths are confused about what we believe. There is only one doctrine of Jesus Christ and it is not subject to private interpretation. The problem is that so many believe their opinion to be doctrine. We would do well to be as sure as possible of our statements before we post and when any uncertainty at all is present, simply state it as opinion. Contention is of the devil, and he laughs when we contend with anyone. There are about 15,000,000 members of the church today and just about that many understandings. My depth of understanding today is far greater than it was 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, yet at each of those times I thought I had a solid understanding of the doctrines of the church. How foolish of me as I now begin to understand how little I really understood then and now recognize how much more there is to learn. This has especially been brought home to me over the past few months in attending the Temple and there receiving personal revelation on doctrinal issues that I never before had considered and that I had never before heard taught, but when I search the scripture there it is. These things cannot be talked about because they have not been made available to the church by a prophet and so must be held close. My point my brothers and sisters is please seek for truth before we respond on an open forum, even if you think you know the answer. Jerry

3 Nephi 28:10 And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest. As you can see this is not reference to the age of man in the millennium but is rather specific to the disciples. Jerry

Translation and twinkling are not the same thing. Translation is not death but is a change. Twinkling IS death. All men must die but in the case of twinkling it is basically an instant change. Isiah 65: 20 tells us that we will live to the age of 100 during the millennium. Jerry