Adomini22

I agree with Milkbone on this one. They did not know the plan. Its actually quite obvious, the way I see it.

Hmmm... I read about Lilith a while back a couple of years ago. Only fleeting scriptures can be used to try to justify what is written in Genesis and what is written in other ancient books. There is a scripture saying Eve/Adam is many, or over many, etc. I dont remember the scripture, but it is in Genesis/Pearl of Great Price. Perhaps the "many" can be referenced to other women? I will look it up at another time. Of course, I dont believe in Lilith at all, but I can see some to try to reconcile the two sources.

public opinion (which this site is) and circumstantial evidence. Look at the last 41 pages of this thread if you are confused, my dear good constant friend SNOW!

Sad experience about the seminary teacher. Some may take it too far (you cant tell me that such a thing never happens....) or some like me will slack off. The family is not always synonymous with the church. Of course, Heavenly Father is family, yadda yadda, but I think you get that church callings taking up too much time is not always the best thing to do. That is why they changed to the church 3 hour block - to save time for family, cause the family was getting neglected. And that is a fact, ladies and gentlemen.

Why Home Teaching as the last straw? Well, because Home Teaching is constantly being talked about and pressed upon membership of the church. I have not Home Taught in a long time, personally. I get home taught on occasion, but if they dont come then that is ok with me. I dont take the Home Teaching program personally. I am a truly selfish individual with my time. That is the reason why. I dont really try to hide it.

Thank you! I knew I was not the only one to read that!

In regards to the earth being 6,000 years old so far.... The section in D&C eludes me - I will search for it tomorrow. It is located in the section where JS proclaims that the Holy Ghost is a spirit, while God and Jesus have physical bodies, and that the earth will become a Urim and Thummim..... But here are some quotes to back it up (long, sorry guys!) The Lord Almighty never created a world like this and peopled it for six thousand years, as He has done, without having some motive in view. (Journal of Discourses 25:9, January 6, 1884. The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p. 8) After passing over the ages and generations of the children of men for about six thousand years, we will come to the present congregation and say the right of heirship is the same now that it was in the beginning. (Journal of Discourses, Vol.6, p.307, Brigham Young, April 8, 1853) Let us ask what the nations of the earth have accomplished for the last six or seven thousand years. What great work have they achieved? What have the greatest warriors and statesmen that have existed from the beginning done? What good have they accomplished for the world? What boon have they handed down to posterity, and how much better are we off because they lived, because they moved upon the earth, and because they possessed a certain power upon it? They have accomplished a solemn nothing. Where are those mighty conquerors and bright geniuses now? Where are some of the mightiest men? and what has become of the nations and cities where they flourished? It has become a matter of doubt where even the foundations of Babylon and Nineveh were laid. Egypt, it is true, has preserved some of its ancient monuments, kings, and princes unto the present day. What are those men? Loathsome mummies. What are they doing with them? The great Potiphars, Ptolemies, and Pharaohs are now being used for fuel to make steam to drive railway cars. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 2, John Taylor, February 19, 1860) The world has had a fair trial for six thousand years; the Lord will try the seventh thousand Himself; (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Five 1842-43 p.252) We know the root and foundation of this hatred. It comes from the pulpit, from corrupt priests. Say they, "These people possess a union and a power that we do not possess, and if we let them alone, they will come and take away our place and nation, and we shall lose our fat livings." There is where it originated--with priests and deacons, with hounds professing to be Christians, but who are no better than the devils in hell. From the pulpit it has spread into political society, and they all hate us. Why? Because the priesthood of the Son of God is among this people, and they know that if we are let alone we shall convert the world and bring it into subjection to the law of Christ. The devil says, "I have had power over the earth for six thousand years, and do you think I am going to loose my grasp upon it? No, I will hold it, and before ever the Latter-day Saints obtain one foot of inheritance upon it they will have to contest it inch by inch." But we will contend with him until we gain power and influence sufficient to convert the world. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 12, p. 271, Brigham Young, August 16th, 1868) We are living in the dispensation and generation to which Jesus referred--the time appointed by God for the last six thousand years, through the mouths of all the prophets and inspired men who have lived and left their sayings on record, in which his Zion should be built up and continue upon the earth. These prophecies will have their fulfilment before the world; and all who will not repent will be engulfed in the destructions which are in store for the wicked. If men do not cease from their murders, whoredoms, and all the wickedness and abominations which fill the black catalogue of the crimes of the world, judgment will overtake them; and whether we are believed or not, these sayings are true, and I bear my testimony as a servant of God and as an Elder in Israel to the truth of the events which are going to follow very fast on each other. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 5, Wilford Woodruff, January 1, 1871) We know, according to the declaration of the Scriptures, that our earth was made some few thousands years ago. How long the progress of formation lasted we do not know. It is called in the Scriptures six days; but we do not know the meaning of the scriptural term day. It evidently does not mean such days as we are now acquainted with--days governed by the rotation of the earth on its axis, and by the shining of the great central luminary of our solar system. A day of twenty-four hours is not the kind of day referred to in the scriptural account of the creation; the word days, in the Scriptures, seems oftentimes to refer to some indefinite period of time. The Lord, in speaking to Adam in the garden, says, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die;" yet he did not die within twenty-four hours after he had eaten the forbidden fruit, but he lived to be almost a thousand years old, from which we learn that the word day, in this passage, had no reference to days of the same duration as ours. Again, it is written, in the second chapter of Genesis, "In the day that He created the heavens and the earth;" not six days, but, "in the day" that he did it, incorporating all the six days into one, and calling that period "the day" that He created the heavens and the earth. When this world was formed, no doubt, it was a very beautiful creation, for God is not the author of anything imperfect. If we have imperfections in our world God has had nothing to do with their introduction or origin, man has brought them upon himself and upon the earth he inhabits. But however long or short may have been the period of the construction of this earth, we find that some six thousand years ago it seems to have been formed, something after the fashion and in the manner in which it now exists, with the exception of the imperfections, evils, and curses that exist on the face of it. Six thousand years, according to the best idea that we have of chronology, are now about completed; we are living almost on the eve of the last of the six millenniums--a thousand years are called a millennium--and to-morrow, we may say, will be the seventh; that is the seventh period, the seventh age or seventh time; or we can call it a day--the seventh day, the great day of rest wherein our globe will rest from all wickedness, when there will be no sin or transgression upon the whole face of it, the curses that have been brought upon it being removed, and all things being restored as they were before the Fall. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 234, Orson Pratt, August 20, 1871) As there is one day out of seven set apart, sanctified and ordained as a day of rest, so there is one thousand years set apart as a day of rest out of the seven thousand which will constitute the temporal existence of our earth. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 350, Orson Pratt, March 10, 1872) Now, if I have not already occupied too much time, I desire to dwell a little upon the subject of the chronology of our world. We have no dates on which we can depend as to the period or history of our globe from the creation down to the present time. Chronologists differ in regard to the history and age of the world. Some make the age of the world, from the creation to the coming of Christ, to be four thousand years. Archbishop Usher has introduced this chronology into King James' Bible; and in that you will find all the dates adapted to that particular reckoning; and according to his reckoning you will find that Christ came in the year of the world 4004. Is this to be depended upon? Not at all. Many chronologists equally as learned, and who have made deeper researches than he has on this subject, differ with him materially. There are many who place the birth of Christ at 5500 years from the creation; others place it at 5490, others at 5508 or 9 years. There are about two hundred chronologists who all differ in regard to this matter. Many Jewish chronologists make it over six thousand years from the creation till the birth of Christ, so that you see when we attempt to take up the subject on the learning of the world, we are in the midst of confusion--no person knows anything about it. It is not really necessary that we should know, but we have some little light on this subject. We know that it was not six thousand years from the creation to the birth of Christ. How do we know this? God has told us in new revelation that this earth is destined to continue its temporal existence for seven thousand years, and that at the commencement of the seventh thousand, he will cause seven angels to sound their trumpets. In other words, we may call it the Millennium, for the meaning of the world millennium is a thousand years. Six thousand years must pass away from the creation till the time that Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven, and he will not come exactly at the expiration of six thousand years. When the Prophet Joseph asked the Lord what was meant by the sounding of the seven trumpets, he was told, "That as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth; even so in the beginning of the seventh thousand years, will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power when he shall have sealed all things unto the end of all things, and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels is the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years; to prepare the way before the time of his coming." This quotation will be found in the Pearl of Great Price. Neither of these trumpets have sounded yet, but they shortly will; and this gives us a little clue to the period and age of our world. We know that six thousand years have not yet elapsed since the creation, but we know that they have very nearly expired. But how long that morning had existed we do not know, unless we appeal to the Book of Abraham, translated by Joseph Smith from Egyptian papyrus. That tells us in plainness that the way the Lord and the celestial host reckoned time, was by the revolutions of a certain great central body called Kolob, which had one revolution on its axis in a thousand of our years, and that was one day with the Lord, and when the Lord said to Adam, "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." the Book of Abraham says it was not yet given unto man the true reckoning of time, and that it was reckoned after the Lord's time that is one thousand years with us was a day with him, and that Adam, if he partook of the forbidden fruit, was to die before that day of a thousand years should expire. Hence when we go back to the history of the creation, we find that the Lord was not in such a great hurry as many suppose, but that he took indefinite periods of long duration to construct this world, and to gather together the elements by the laws of gravitation to lay the foundation and form the nucleus thereof, and when he saw that all things were ready and properly prepared, he then placed the man in the Garden of Eden to rule over all animals, fish and fowls, and to have dominion over the whole face of the earth. (Journal of Discourses, Vol.15, p.263, Orson Pratt, December 29, 1872)

Ok, quick idea of mine (this thread is way too long to read everything....) D&C has a section that has some Q&A regarding some doctrinal questions. One of them is the age of the earth. Does that answer not say 6000 years old?

I have to admit... I have always thought of the sealing of husband and wife and having your calling and election made sure to be different. (While I accept that I can be wrong) my belief was centered around the comments of calling and election made sure, AKA, second annointing/seeing Jesus during our mortal lifetime in the flesh. There are scriptures declaring those to have their calling and elections made sure being done , and it was NOT during their marraiges. That is why I have always had the distinction in my mind.

I apologize .... "never being married in Cana" Once again, my mistake. I know Volgadon shares the same belief generally that I do. Whether we agree it was during his mortal ministry or otherwise, is a different item. Its nice to hear from you again Maureen. A.

Volgadon, Let me try to explain. If you read my whole post, and try to get my general idea across to you (after multiple postings included) the majority of your "piece by peice" questions have already been answered. In regards to circumstancial evidence, logic, doctrine, GA statements, etc. I have tried to already touch upon that. If that has been lost, then I must not be writing efficiently enough, and I will blame myself. Explicit and implicit. Two different words and two different meanings. Both are present in doctrine, parables, and teachings. That is all today. Have a good week.

I am not attacking you. Nor am I saying that you are attacking holy scripture. I am just saying that there is a significant amount of circumstantial evidence - and I do not believe it is a coincidence. Niether does holy writ. Jesus had to be baptized, he had to be married, he had to fulfil the law of the land and jewish custom as a teacher, he had to be exalted, etc. There is just so much there that points towards this. Yes, it is not explicitly written, but deep doctrine never is. That is why I feel (just my feeling/opinion) that your argument of him never being married does not stand up. There is just so much against it. its like the parables of the savior. ye who have eyes let him see, ears that can hear..... his parables were never explicit either, but they taught great things to those who paid attention to the details and circumstance. I feel this is one of them.

Lets ignore Snow on this one topic. I recognize those signs everywhere. I think it is very close to collapsing. When it does though, the prophets have said that each family will go back to being like tribes. States wont have an influence, basically is how I think of it. If the economy collapses under the national debt, I believe this will take place. Of course, there is no avoiding it. Good thought.

Traveler, I like your posts. I do. But I have to say something that I feel is important. Scripture is given to us so that we may interpret it. That is why we have it. Any other reason other than this one given I do not believe in (such as God/prophets going through so much to give us these scriptures, and then not letting us read/interpret them) Also, scripture makes sure that we are on the right path. Give you an example. Adam-God doctrine, taught by Brigham Young himself. Now, this was opinion, as stated by current general authorities, but scripture can be used to help determine what is opinion and what is actually scripture. GA's make mistakes doctrinally like we do. History (and scripture) proves this. Best Regards.

"You have failed to produce even one that stands up to scrutiny. " Ha! You mean, following the text? Yes, the text does not stand up to scrutiny at all. thats right, lets ignore the text .......... If you could explain your side that does not go against what is written in holy scripture, then I would be happy to consider it. Do you have another point as opposed to the wedding of Cana? Jesus appearing to Mary is one - but you have not even touched on that one. Saturnfulcrum brings up a good point on it.......

Justice, I did not think you could explain your position any finer than those details. I am open to the possibility that I (and you) could be wrong, but the text does imply it. The wedding of Cana is not the only thing that implies this though.... I just wanted to say well put. No judgements cast, just plain explanation. Well done.

I agree. It is not written in the text explicitly. It is only implicit to those who read between the lines, generally (not saying you dont). Most deep doctrine is that way. There are only hints of it in various places...... give you another example (calling and election made sure). Examples EVERYWHERE (JS history, BoM, OT, NT, etc)

Justice, I was thinking the same thing. Of course, the GA's are not going to state such a thing in this time period (they already have before), but lets leave it at that. There are many implications on that they were married, in my mind. No concrete proof, though. Maybe Volgadon's jewish people can sit down with my jewish people and we can all drink some water together....... ok, just kidding.

Ha ha ha ha! Elphaba, your post is direct and kind of witty. I am somewhat stunned a little bit as well. However, there are two points I want to add: 1) Personal attacks are not very nice - even if you have facts. I struggle with this as well. 2) Technically, science , while proven, can be wrong and overridden if God wills it so. There is a higher power. Unless, if you dont believe in such higher power, then you can ignore this last point.

Volgadon, your post is a little funny. Not to be rude, but how many sources do you need? If you want, I can find numerous references made by Apostles that explicitly state that Mary was the wife of Jesus. (of course, this can be taken as opinion, but still ) If you require me post it, I will be happy to if you give me a couple of days (I work and go to school full time, so you will just have to be patient). Or you can google it. Justice is "spot on" about this topic. One could not be Rabbi until he was married. (Of course, if you know, one cannot be Rabbi unless he was 30 years or older too) The wedding of turning the water to wine - if you read that chapter Word for Word, it is spelled out pretty clearly who the groom is. Ever wonder why Jesus's mom was there fetching the wine for the bridegroom? Hmmmm...... Lets not even bring covenants into the conversation either. So Jesus had to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness, got his endownments later but can't get married and sealed to be exalted? Does not Jesus follow the Father in all things, even doing what His Father did? Doesn't the Father have a wife?

I personally like Elphaba and do not find her posts offensive, even though we may disagree on some topics. Cant we all just get along?

That is an awesome quote! I feel that such a feeling is not reciprocated among the majority, though. I have heard too many people say "Obey" and not allow questions or opinions to be had. This is never at the higher church presidency, though. This usually happens at the local level/stake only in my experience.

I knew a bishop that was very strong (strong character as well) in Venezuela. He served for 10 years. I know that was the exception, but he was so good. Split his ward 4 times because the church became so full. Still is literally overflowing with people. Good memories. I have heard of the 5 year mark as a general guideline only. I have no knowledge of the Stake Presidents though. I though it was like 7-9.

That is so funny that this topic was introduced. I was reading the Advice board and thought the exact same thing. I can see two sides..... our religion promotes faith and working together, eternal families, etc. That has to play a factor in lower statistics among the LDS community for affairs. HOWEVER.... we are among the very very few who encourage people to not have sex until they are married. This ... how do you call it...... lack of expression, experience, etc. may allow lust to creep in fairly often after marraige. It will always pit the natural man (who tends to wander after being bottled up so long) vs. the spiritual ma ( eternal families, faith, faithfulness to spouse, etc.) Thats how I see it. You may not agree though.

Recieving the second comforter and being translated are different from what I understand. That may be on a different thread though. If you have your calling and election made sure, and are guaranteed the celestial glory, then sin would not have a big effect, I would think..... Of course, who would sin at such a high/understanding level? Beats me....