Ratbag

You think your comment is original? I guess I must be nuts, stupid, idiotic, etc., spending a lot of time on learning about evil spirits. What a waste of time, huh? I get that same attitude with the vast majority of LDS. What would you like to know about? Let me see, I obtained a degree in criminal justice just before I became a police officer. I also have a degree in paralegal studies. Want to see some of the photographs I’ve taken of flowers, portraits, landscapes? They are very beautiful. Want to see some of the drawings I’ve made of dragons? They are pretty cool. In June I’m setting up a farm in Utah doing underground greenhouses called walipinis. Ever hear of them? I’ve already written one book and I’m in the process of writing a second one. I’ve read well over 1000 books in my life time. I’m an avid book reader. I speak sign language. How about you? I don’t sit around the house watching the boob tube and I don’t watch movies. I don’t waste my time watching mindless TV shows, football or any other sport, except occasionally hockey if I have the time. Love them Penguins! I guess that is pretty stupid, right? Guess what? You know that really stupid guy who restored Christ’s church on this earth, that idiot who talked to God in the Sacred Grove, Joseph Smith; the idiot who save Jesus only did more for the salvation of mankind than any other person who lived on this earth? That guy? Want to know what he wasted more time studing about and teaching about than any other subject? According to his cousin, the Apostle George A. Smith, Joseph spent the most time teaching the early saints about evil spirits, their abilities, their power, their government and laws, and how to discern them. You can look it up for yourself in one of those books the overwhelming majority of LDS don’t read; probably don’t even realize exists. The Words of Joseph Smith: The Contemporary Accounts of the Nauvoo Discourses of the Prophet Joseph. Want to hear some more of what Joseph Smith wasted his time on teaching? If Joseph Smith were alive today, setting up the restored Church in this time, he would have been locked up in the looney bin. Pshrinks from the pseudo-science of psychiatry would have said he was schizophrenic and would have drugged him senseless. The Prophet was hounded badly by evil spirits from the very day he knelt down in the Sacred Grove till the day he was murdered. I am amazed and tired of the willful ignorance of Latter-day Saints. They are so horribly deceived by the wisdom of the world. They think that secular learning is everything. It knows all and is all that is necessary to gain their salvation. I know a lot of highly educated idiots whose spiritual IQ is not much bigger than their shoe size. The glory of God is intelligence. The intelligence being referred to isn't secular knowledge, it is spiritual knowledge. You talk about literature? Why don’t you read some of what Joseph Smith taught. OK, sarcasm and rant is now finished.

This satanic concept is called Socialism. In the words of Maggie, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” ― Margaret Thatcher I could go on and on and on and on and on and on..., but I won't.

Here is what is on the church website. I think it is pretty clear that the Savior's church was removed from the earth along with the priesthood in general. Of course, we do know that John the Revelator and the Three Nephites held the priesthood, but no other person had it.

Something that isn’t being covered in this discussion, but should be is not only doctrine but also principles. In his book, “Increase in Learning,” Elder Bednar goes into this along with what is “intelligence” as referred to in the scriptures. He defines what is doctrine. Faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the reality of Satan and evil spirits, tithing are all set forth in the scriptures and are doctrine. Doctrines are true no matter the circumstances, but not always contained in the scriptures. A principle helps you apply doctrine in specific circumstances. It is situation specific. I read about a situation regarding modesty. What is correct dress in one situation is not correct dress in another situation. I wear sweats and T-shirts around the house. While it is modest, it is not appropriate for going to church or to the temple. Principles should be compelling enough to make you want to live to Gospel standards, to choose the correct path in a given situation.

This is from the Church website:

Remember that there is a difference in origin between devils and unclean spirits. Early church leaders taught that devils were the one-third that were cast out of heaven. Unclean spirits are the disembodied spirits of wicked people who died in their sins. The unclean spirits are compelled to obey Satan. I have some interesting quotes I found regarding this. This first one is from a church sponsored newspaper called, "The Seer" in reference to Joseph Smith. This next one is a lesson plan for mutual printed in the Improvement Era in 1919. This last one is from the Young Woman's Journal and talks about a conversation a person had with an unclean spirit that had possessed him, making him sick until it was cast out. Unclean spirits willingly help Satan. Heber C. Kimball had some amazing experiences with evil spirits while on his mission in England. He was physically attacked on one occasion and had a vision of them in all their fury. He gave numerous sermons on his experiences. The following is an excerpt from one of them.

Latter-day Saints are woefully ignorant regarding the capabilities of evil spirits. This is exactly why Joseph Smith said, “One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc….” (HC 4:572) I’ve spent hundreds of hours researching this subject and I’ve found scores of quotes from early and current church leaders. However, try and talk to the LDS about it and replies range from apathetic to outright hostility. As I said, there are literally scores and scores of quotes from Joseph Smith to our current prophet talking about evil spirits, however, I find about one in a hundred LDS willing to talk about it. Why should we talk about it? Because the Prophet Joseph said that unless we gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits, they will control us. You are correct regarding the capabilities of evil spirits in messing up electronics. There are numerous references to them attacking people. Heber C. Kimball gave some graphic descriptions from his mission in England and look what Satan did to Job. He destroyed his home and killed his family. The LDS seem to forget that or simply ignore it. He also created snakes from staffs, frogs and blood. Parley P. Pratt called electricity a “spiritual fluid.” As for not having a fighting chance, that is where knowledge comes in. Orson F. Whitney said that with evil spirits, foreknowledge is power. Brigham Young told us to study evil and its consequences. This counsel was quoted by Elder James E. Faust in a talk in general conference. All you have to do is gain knowledge. I recommend you use the following research sites. The first one is through Deseret Book and costs $5 a month, but it is worth it. http://gospelink.com/ The next one is a searchable Journal of Discourses. http://journalofdiscourses.com/ This next one is through BYU and will let you search every single general conference through key words. http://www.lds-general-conference.org/ This one is also through BYU, but it will give you key words for the Journal of Discourses. http://scriptures.byu.edu/ This one will let you download free literally hundreds of magazines and books from the church and early leaders. In the search engine head all requests with Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and then the magazine, author or book you want. Or just type in the church name and watch a thousand or so references come up. https://archive.org/

I thought about how to reply to this, but I get the strong impression that I'm wasting my time. You ask for “canonized doctrine” before you will gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits for yourself. No matter that the Prophet Joseph Smith stated that you must gain knowledge of how to control evil spirits or they will control you, you still ask for “canonized doctrine.” This is the man that “has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it,”(D&C 135:3) the man who established about 98% of Church doctrine, the man that every single apostle or prophet since him has quoted extensively and yet you still question him. There really isn't anything I can say that will change your mind. You must gain your own knowledge. That is doctrine.

I find this attitude puzzling. It seems to be a prevailing attitude among the LDS, yet it is contrary to what was taught by early and later church leaders. Evil spirits are all around us. The world is jammed full of them and they are responsible for all evil in this world, yet nobody wants to know about them. I find that many LDS are willfully ignorant regarding some gospel topics that are uncomfortable to them. They simply ignore the counsel to obtain knowledge. Why? Something else I simply do not understand is why nobody does any research into an area that affects every single aspect of their lives. Christ was constantly casting out evil spirits from people, yet that part of his ministry is ignored. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “one great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of [evil] spirits; their power,…government, [and] intelligence…, the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known…. He further stated that “they possess a power that none but those who have the Priesthood can control….” He also stated that “a man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge” and added “that if men do not get knowledge, including the knowledge of how to control evil spirits, the latter will have more power than the former, and thus be able to dominate them.” Brigham Young told the Saints to “learn not only what is in heaven, but what is in hell….” He also told them they have a “duty” to “study…evil, and its consequences.” The Prophet Joseph also counseled the saints to “search into and contemplate the darkest abyss.” Orson F. Whitney continued along this line, saying that with evil spirits, “foreknowledge is power.” Elder James E. Faust repeated Brigham Young’s statement to study evil and its consequences. According to his cousin, Elder George A. Smith, Joseph spent more time learning and teaching about the discerning of evil spirits than any other subject. In any type of war, a good general on a battlefield will study his enemies. He will gather intelligence on them: their weapons, doctrine, supply and support, composition, communications, chain of command, etc. He will then formulate a plan to fight back based on this intelligence. Our enemy is Satan, his angels and subjugated unclean spirits. We need to know what they are capable of, how they coordinate their activities, the extent and limits of their powers and what weapons they use against us. This allows us to fight back and make our lives a bit easier.

I'm not sure where you get this idea, but oh, well. Here is what Elder Bednar has to say on the subject. Doctrines: eternal truths revealed by God and answer the question of, “Why.” Principles: doctrinally based guidelines for the exercise of agency and answer the question of, “What.” Applications: actions we take in response to doctrines and principles and answer the question of “how”, and provide the specifics of how something needs to be done.

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in for what it's worth. I fully understand and support the Church's position in its statement regarding homosexuals and job and housing discrimination. However, the statement was not an acceptance of homosexuality or homosexual marriage. I do believe that attending a homosexual wedding is an implied statement (intentional or not) of support for something that is an abomination in the sight of God. I realize that if it is a homosexual relative getting married, you feel you are supporting the relative, but, again, it still is an implied statement of support for homosexual marriage in general. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, not necessarily because both cities were entirely homosexual; they were not. It was that homosexuality, along with other gross sexual sins were completely accepted by everyone except for one family. It was accepted as normal by everyone. Remember that sexual sin is the absolute worst thing you can do and still not go to outer darkness. It is the grossest of sin next to the shedding of innocent blood and denying the Holy Spirit. Homosexual sex is just as gross a sin as is heterosexual pre or extra marital sex. Each is just as bad as the other. I am against a man and woman having an unmarried sexual relationship just as much as I am against homosexuality. I condemn both just as strongly. (I keep repeating myself, but I can't help it) The Supreme Court has taken up the issue of homosexual marriage. I have no doubt that it will be upheld in a 5-4 decision making it the law of the land. As it is, a near supermajority (60%) of Americans believe that homosexuality should be accepted. When SCOTUS approves it in June, watch out, because I believe it will be the straw that broke the camel's back. God won't be happy; not just because of the legalizing of homosexual marriage, but because sexual sin (homo and hetero) is so commonly accepted as normal, just as in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I find this response to be typical of most LDS. I don't mean this offensively; it's just that this is what I usually run into when asking this question. It also is wrong. It seems that no one does any research and believes the conventional wisdom of the world. Let me tell you what church leaders had to say on the subject. The Prophet taught that although not all diseases were caused by evil spirits (HC 2:147), unclean or foul spirits were often responsible for various sicknesses and diseases. Because our bodies are made from the elements of the earth, they are “subject to the power of the devil” (JD 2:256) and Satan was given limited power over the elements that make up our bodies.(JD 3:277) This is an article from an early Church publication. According to Heber C. Kimball, Joseph Smith’s own child was badly afflicted with an unexplainable illness by Satan. Another incident involving the Prophet happened while he was traveling cross country with Bishop Newel K. Whitney. The bishop was badly injured in an accident and while Joseph was caring for the bishop, Joseph was badly afflicted. Brigham Young also taught extensively on this subject. He also taught that Satan “has power to cause affliction and sickness, pain and distress, sorrow, anguish, and disappointment…” (JD 3:95) The Prophet Joseph said that Satan has power “over death.” (The Seer. Jan 1853, Pg. 44) Elder Parley P. Pratt went even further on the subject. If you search the History of the Church and the Journal of Discourses, you will find a great deal more than what I've quoted.

In my research of end time prophecies, I found a number of interesting items. In 1217 A.D., Rabbi Judah ben Samuel wrote the following: “When the Ottomans conquer Jerusalem they will rule over Jerusalem for eight jubilees. Afterwards Jerusalem will become a no-man’s land for one jubilee, and then in the ninth jubilee it will once again come back into the possession of the Jewish nation – which will signify the beginning of the Messianic end time.” It should be noted that one jubilee is 50 years and the Ottoman Empire is modern day Turkey. The Empire took over Jerusalem in 1517 and was finally kicked out by the British in 1917. For the next 50 years, Jerusalem was arguably a no-man’s land until the Israelis beat the Muslims and retook the city during the Six Day War in 1967. We are now approaching the beginning of the tenth jubilee. Kinda makes you wonder what will happen then.

What is the relationship, if any, between illnesses, diseases, mental illness and death, and evil spirits? The modern world and science says that illnesses that once were thought by older cultures and time periods to be caused by evil spirits actually have scientific explanations. What has been taught by church leaders? Has anyone done any research into this? What are your thoughts?

This is an interesting topic. Here is what I found on the Church web site: I've been studying the afterlife and as a part of that study I read two books: Life Everlasting, by Duane Crowther (LDS scholar, temple president), and Return From Tomorrow, by Dr. George G. Ritchie. I strongly recommend both books. The second book is the story of Dr. Ritchie when he died at the beginning of WWII. He was dead for 9 minutes and had a remarkable experience. In my research, I found that his near death experience is right in line with what has been taught by early and current church leaders. Here is an excerpt from his book regarding suicide.

First off, I would first look at you. What have you done to contribute to your wife's problem? The reason I ask this is because you work on Sunday. How long have you worked on Sunday's? I also say this because I used to do the same thing and I encountered a similar problem. My ex was spiritually weak and working on Sunday's didn't help. I worked in an essential service (law enforcement), so I had a ready excuse. Notice I didn't say reason. I know without a doubt that my working on Sunday's contributed to her inactivity. She wouldn't go if I didn't. Secondly, it's obvious your wife's problem started quite a while ago. This is why I asked how long you worked on Sunday's. The second anyone begins to question those in callings of leadership without valid, articulable, good reasons, that person is on the road to apostasy. This isn’t to say that mistakes aren’t made. Back in 1994 my bishop was excommunicated. In the last two years, I had another bishop released for simple incompetence. I know for a fact that bishops have a problem with discernment. However, that doesn’t mean their calling was valid in the first place. Sometimes a bishop is called because there isn’t anyone else available. As to how to help your wife, well, that one is very tough. Your wife is under the influence of a false spirit. Joseph Smith taught extensively on the subject of the discerning of spirits. According to his cousin, the Apostle George A. Smith, Joseph spent more time learning about and teaching upon the subject of the discerning of spirits than any other subject. Joseph even wrote an extensive editorial in the Times and Seasons about this that was included in the History of the Church. I don’t know if divorce is an answer, but at the same time, you must consider the damage to your children. The only advice I feel I can give is fasting and prayer. I’m a big believer in fasting and prayer. I would also reconsider working on Sunday’s. Can you find another job? What is more important to you: your family's spiritual salvation or your work?

Deleted. Already covered.

I carried a Ruger Security Six before one department I was on went to the P-95. It sounds like the Taurus Tracker has the same problems I ran into with the Security Six after firing a hundred rounds through it. The tolerances between the cylinder and forcing cone are so tight that fouling from both lead and powder causes it to jam. I'm not sure why it doesn't happen in a blued barrel, but I've never run into the problem on anything but stainless. I carried a Glock 17 on another department and I loved it. Good weapon and the trigger squeeze is consistent. Personally, I would go with the NY trigger, not the Miami trigger. The difference in the feel of the NY trigger squeeze is similar to the M-1911a1 and the overall pull weight is more. If you plan on using it strictly for self-defense, don't go with a competition trigger as it is a hair trigger.

Does anyone do any research on their own? I don't mean this to be offensive, but when the church says that it really doesn't have a position on something that always is a signal for me to look into it. I have looked into the issue of whether or not caffeinated soft drinks and energy drinks are against the WoW and what I found has led me to the conclusion that drinking them is wrong. Here are a number of quotes that have led me to this conclusion. There are some key phrases I'd like to point out. "not to take a stimulant to urge us on to greater extremes" "tea and coffee and all other stimulants are harmful" "avoid habit-forming stimulants" "avoid the use of stimulants and substances that conflict with the intent of the Word of Wisdom" Caffeine has been scientifically proven to ease fatigue until your body adapts to it through addiction, however none of that really matters. It is the last quote that is the most important. Anything that conflicts with the intent of the WoW is wrong. This is why I believe drinking caffeinated soft drinks is wrong. This is where these passages of scripture apply.

For those of you interested in end time prophecies, I found an interesting one by a patriarch from Springville, Utah, published in an early church publication, “The Contributor,” August 1894, titled, “A Dream.” It is very interesting and frightening since it is being fulfilled step by step. Here it is in its entirety. There are parts of this that have been fulfilled right down the line and one that I think is about to be fulfilled. The part about letters written by a Jew could refer to George Sorros. Last year he bet over 2 billion dollars in the stock market that it would crash.

I know that the Church has no stand when it comes to carbonated caffeinated beverages, like colas and such, but no matter what anyone says, drinking any caffeinated beverage is against the Word of Wisdom. All anyone has to do is a bit of searching and you will see what early church leaders had to say. Elder John A. Widtsoe wrote a book about it. Notice that he specifically states “whether hot or cold in temperature?” The stimulating substance he refers to is caffeine. He had more to say on this subject. Then he goes on for the slam dunk. This includes all energy drinks. Whether or not anyone agrees with this or not comes down to two passages of scripture. Any questions, class?

As I read through these posts, one thing keeps coming to my mind about the problem: pride. As long as Satan and his billions of devils and unclean spirits are permitted to torment mankind, inequality will always exist. One person may have more in possessions and wealth, but this is his trial in life: will he use his wealth and possession righteously. His pride gets in the way and he uses his wealth for comfort: nice, big house, fancy car, nice clothes, boat, etc. However, on the flip side is the pride of the poor. The down trodden can have just as much pride as the privileged. I like what President Benson said: All that said, it all comes down to one thing I keep telling my wife and kids: It doesn't matter what anyone else does, it only matters what I do.

Hi All- I'm having trouble finding people to read a book I've written. It isn't related to any gospel subject, just something I've written based on my experiences as a cop. I need people to read it and email me a no-holds-barred critique of it. Here is the synopsis. There is a twist to the plot about the drug lord. I don't know if it is good enough and if I need to change it. That is one of the things I need to know about. The book is 266 single spaced pages long. If you want to read the book, please send a request to [email protected]. I can send it to you in Kindle, EPUB or PDF. Thanks, Ratbag

Folk Prophet - Exactly! Snoozer, I might add that your understand is faulty and twists what was written out of context. A general authority stood up in general conference and said that addictions go with you when you die. It was published by the church and that makes it church doctrine Bednar did not say that dual beings don't take their addictions with them. You are twisting things to suit your own agenda.

Snoozer- You really do need to do a bit of research before you start spouting the wisdom of the world. This took me no more than 10 minutes of searching to find the following talk by Hartman Rector, Jr. Your college degrees have made you believe in the wisdom of the world. You need filter what you learn through the spirit of discernment and weed out the garbage and wisdom of the world.