priesthoodpower

For people like my ex-wife and my younger brother. This is how they lose the faith and their path to God. them - Other People (Church) - God Its very, very complicated how drama within the church occur but when the dust settles it usually ends up where one person (guilty of offense or not) continues on with the fold and the other (guilty of offense or not) becomes uncomfortable (or alienated in their minds) and ends up leaving the fold/church. Some that make it to this point, who feel uncomfortable, simply and quietly slip away and enjoy life on another path, these people tend to not have much if any LDS associations outside of church so when they do leave they don't incur the constant reminder of their rebellion. Others who leave still want a relationship with God but because they still believe that the only way is through the church, aka "other people" whom they choose not to be around anymore, they become angry and bitter because they were taught in church that they are now on the wrong side of the fence. All of a sudden, what was a problem between the leaver and another individual becomes a problem with the whole church. When it gets to this point the leaver is usually trying to find reasons to hate the church even more and prove in their minds that everything is false because they feel they were wronged. You can see how this creates hatred in ones heart and allows for what we are trying to identify as a subtle possession. I am optimistic about the day when Gods kingdom is like a marathon. Everyone is eager to participate and try their best at their own pace. There is no shaming, judging, uncomfortableness involved. Actually I believe we were all once in that marathon, it was the pre-existence and we were all eager and willing to participate in Jesus's plan. Earth is happening to us right now and it is very, very complicated, pain, suffering, judging etc.. Next stop, heaven, back to the marathon and everyone will be exactly where they need to be.. on their way to their own personal best. At least here on earth, This is how they will find the gospel again: them - other people (Church) - God

Your description of your bil fits my ex-wife exactly, she left the church 6yrs ago, except I still live with and support her and my teenage girls. This past weekend I watched conf on the big screen in our living room, as each one of them woke up and entered they made snide remarks and exited quickly, like a vampire being exposed to the light. Yes my ex has groomed the little ones over the yrs to hate the church too. Only since this past weekend has the thought of a bad spirit crossed my mind, I prayed to God to help me escape this but I keep reminding myself that after 1yr off my mission I prayed to God to send me an angel, he literally sent me her as she had just gotten off her mission. He then sent me 3 more angels, my girls, to take care of. That is why I will not leave them because I made an oath in my heart to be their provider. The funny thing is that life is all flowers and cookies in this home but when the subject of my religion comes up, they become very hostile. I have witnessed their gradual decline from church and christ and defended them as I witnessed both sides first hand. I have learned a lot and have a lot to say in hopes that I can beat this. Sadly its out of my hands, only christ can heal this.

Interesting, and I like how the big news and major push from this conference was the "Restoration Proclamation". To emphasize a restoration which is what makes us very different yet same.

Its the culture of LDS that is keeping Christs church from growing and allowing many to leave. Its clear that since Pres Nelson became prophet he or should I say God, has told us to get his name and now image correct. If something so simple as his name and image has slipped away from us over the years because of cultural habits (that most of us cant see from the inside), what else are we blind to see? *Eversince I was a kid and people told us that mormons are not christians we kind of puffed up our chests and stood proud that we had the truth and it doesnt matter what they think.

Pray and fast for those on the front lines. There is light at the end of the tunnel and may be closer then we think.

Don't be too bias to see what is really happening. The re-named "Ministering" program lowered the bar on the assignment. In the old Home Teaching program we set an apt, dress up in Sunday best, get in the door, sit down for prayer and lesson with the family...now in Ministering if we cant make some kind of physical interaction (doesn't have to be church related) with the family we can send a text "you good buddy! need anything!". Its also worth mentioning that at least in my ward the numbers did not change, ministering is still below 5%, my guess is this program will soon be dissolved. We can both agree that PEOPLE are the problem and vort thinks the ANSWER is with the people humbling them selves and changing their ways completely but when that doesn't work something else needs to give. Lets look at this small example of Home teaching. The PEOPLE were not doing it (Our stake averaged less then 10% for decades, I can only assume the church worldwide saw similar stats) so the Church changed the program. This is an example of the Church changing and not the people...and not changing because it was a failure but because the gospel is continuously being restored, human behavior and cultures change over time. HT/Ministering could come and go just like polygamy. Are we a worse off church because polygamy was recalled? Will we be a lesser church if HT/Ministering is recalled? If it is recalled, then all of a sudden repentance for not doing HT/Ministering is not necessary. The bar was just lowered, it just got a little easier. Shorter Church = The Church changing, not the People. (Im not saying Christ or the doctrine changed) Less leadership meetings = The Church changing, not the People. "The goal has never been spend three hours in church." ya think! Finally after years seeing members leave church after the one hour of sacrament (for various reasons and cant do anything about it) they finally made a pivot move. What is now 2 hrs will soon be 1hr. Heck this coronavirus situation is teaching the world to do everything online, this may be the chance for the Church to make the leap, we have gospel library and LDS tools, all our membership resources are already online, Awesome! Which of the two structures has a chance to be more successful? A. 5,000 people in a small town. 0ne church building for worship. 500 people are attracted to that church and become members. 300 stop attending overtime because they are not comfortable. 200 active members that feel comfortable enough to remain in harmony with the others. 200 members that believe they are the only ones with a one-on-one relationship with Christ. B. 5,000 people in a small town. 5,000 church buildings to worship in. 5,000 people love their church. 5,000 attend their entire lives. None go inactive and all of them feel comfortable moving at their own pace. No one in their ear telling them they are not good enough. 5,000 people with a one-on-one relationship with Christ. B my friend is online, virtual, automated, home centered church. This is a dead giveaway of the old school doom and gloom mentality that you and vort have. My kids when they attended primary 5-8yrs ago before leaving the church had this fear instilled in them from a teacher that was in the over 60yr age range, repent or go to hell type stuff, he wasn't wrong because it does say that in the scriptures, but congratulations for driving more people away from the church. Its a good thing that my kids do not need to be active members of the LDS to have a relationship with Christ and his gospel. The church is not the same today as it was 40+ yrs ago when we were growing up. I can accept that as well as the Apostles as proven by their leadership direction these past few years, but others cannot.

You are stuck in time and blinded by your own knowledge of the gospel. You try too hard to speak for God yet we have a prophet that is slowly moving the goal posts so that we CAN welcome more of the lost sheep into the fold, quite the opposite of your beliefs. True, there are some that dont want to change their bad habits, but there are many, many good people that are turned off by what they have learned to believe is man made religions.You offer no suggestions or solutions to help folks get through these barriers that most of us have had the luxury to be born or atleast cultured into. people religion christ you see the barrier?

I agree but we are talking about different things. The answer: The gospel is as complete as we will ever need it to be as it is the answer to eternal joy and happiness. Everyone needs it and everyone wants it. The problem: How do we get everyone to accept and follow it? The pessimist: "the gospel is too hard for most people, they are disobedient and are not interested". The optimist: "the gospel is so awesome..we just need to figure out how to make it acceptable in a way that is comfortable to each individual." We need to break down cultural, social and behavioural barriers. A simple example is that JS restored the gospel in english, does the world need to speak english in order to accept it? No, the church translated it into different languages to cater to the cultural needs of the world. Social barriers: Why do we currently have single wards, multi language ethnic wards? Because you cant fit everyone in one general ward. Singles feel uncomfortable and outcast in a family ward therefore we created a singles ward. Now there are thousands of other barriers that cause people to not want to attend a general ward, and sadly, as it currently stands in LDS culture, when you dont attend "church" you are left out of Gods plan (this is nonsense to me and anyone else who believes in a loving God). We cant create thousands of different ward types to cater to the thousands of different kinds of people and that is why we are seeing the dissolving of our sunday services. The answer to our problems is the internet, social media, virtualization and automation. This is how we make a gospel that is comfortable to all with out changing doctrine. This corona virus is pushing this world in a direction we never couldve imagined, I believe its part of Gods plan.

Itll take a generation or two for this old fashion religious elitist way of thinking to disappear. Always got the answers but dont care about solutions.

I agree with everything you say annendex, unfortunatley things are not as simple as it seems. What good is having all the answers if we cant recognize and solve the problems. I personally dont agree with the position .." they choose to leave, they are disobedient".

To be more specific its the culture of the people in the church that makes it feel like micromanaging or shall we say the pressure to act a certain way, be a certain way, be perfect, all or nothing. 15 yrs ago I literally had an elders quorum president say to us "This is a church of progression, you cant sit and be stagnant". This type of thinking is a big part of what pushes lazy or prideful members away whereas these same people would have remained in the church content with the pace that they feel comfortable with. The tone now from our apostles are "your best is good enough". No doctrine changed but the way we think has, how hard was that? Please remember that church is not Christ. Christ is not a christian, he is THE Christ. We are... christians that go to church mormons that go to church catholics that go to mass buddhists that go to the temple...etc Home centered gospel is taking us in a better direction..."people following Christ", and this is something that EVERYONE can do, not just active mormons.

We cant! The church in its current format, although well intentioned, is micromanaging peoples thoughts and beliefs. This works for some but not many, as evidenced by higher amount of inactives on our rosters then actives. My little sister and her family in vegas are the last of my siblings to go inactive, shes not anti or disbelieving but just tired of the mind games and needs time away to "deconstruct" her testimony. The answer to this problem is already in play, the change that Pres Nelson envisioned with come follow me home learning and worship. Its a start but it still has a long way to go before our lost sheep return home. For example my sister avoids any contact with her home ward leaders but will allow me to discuss gospel items with her, unfortunately I, nor another male relative of ours are not in her ward boundary therefore have no right to excercise any priesthood ordinances with her. IMHO we just need to wait a few more years before the term "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves" takes on a whole new meaning.

This is what I been saying years ago about why hometeaching numbers were low. Assigned friendships dont work. This new named "ministering" program is still an assignment. @Fether you are doing something that is genuine and real...hanging out with member friends that you WANT to and not ASSIGNED to visit with. This is TRUE support and ministering. I believe ward boundaries limit some aspects of our worship culture, and in some ways hindering the work. The internet and social media is slowly changing this.

I grew up on the water and always respected this statement as my uncle and father taught me this from D&C. However after many decades of doing water sports and activities I believe this is just something that JS and the people of that time believed. They were not water people. I understand that while in the water you are at the mercy of the elements and dont have total control over your body and risk injury and death. Anything that brings your life closer to an end satan rejoices in. Driving a car, hiking up a mountain, riding a bike are similar risks. When I am on the water with the sun, wind, clouds and/or blue sky around me I feel closer to God. Its therapuetic, its amazing!

Satan doesnt create but he tempts. Tempts a killer to use a gun, tempt an adulterer to cheat. Probably influenced Job to do something to cause the boils as well as influence poor food hygiene in China that caused this virus.

Lots of catering already going on in the church you must be blind, thank goodness we have a prophet that gets it. Meet in person, meet online, meet anyway you want. You are stuck in the 80s.

Not the circumstance I thought it would be under but I was counting down the days when church would be virtual via online. This is general conference but in Italy I heard they did sunday church services online last week due to the corona virus outbreak. I hope this trend of virtual services stick because I know a lot of inactives that need and want the gospel in their lives but are done with participating in mass type worship services.

op, much of what you say is speculation but i sense that your perspective is inspiration and light for you and your household. Thank you for sharing as I have been dwelling on Adams transgression the past 6 months and how it relates to sin in my life. I was gonna start a topic on it but your post and some of the replys clears things up for me. My belief is that sin happens to me, by me and around me because just like Adams transgression, it allows other parts of Gods plan to unfold. I love your explanation of a plan A, where Adam could have resisted sin and simply grown from the temptation alone (just as Christ did), why? because I know many members of the church who live in "lesser" sins (better at resisting temptation) and I see their spiritual growth the way you explain it as a "plan A"....and that, my friend, is what Christs example is, a plan A.

It might be a generational thing where one generation gets sick of hearing all the flaws and makes a point to focus only on the good, the next generation feels lied to because they grew up only hearing the good and thought (insert prophets name) was perfect, and the pattern continues. I see nothing wrong with the article in fact it contains both the flaws and greatness of BY, something future generations need to know. If snell was bashing then yes, totally inappropriate but he is not, just simply stating that BY had flaws. I appreciate couples who tread lightly talking about the flaws in their relationship/family/homes. Bashing, nope! Letting others know you have flaws and are human, fine with me. Also there is a difference between your average person and a leader or someone that everyone holds in high regard. The leaders greatness is repeated through-out history and so should his flaws.

How do you know that your mom, missionaries, bishops, clergy from any religion wasnt praying for you, your family, your community? My perspective on life recently has become more from an eternal perspective, this life is short and a testing ground. The body is weak, imperfect and just a vessel. The spirit is eternal, mighty and powerful. I feel that if I focus on my relationship with our saviour and continue building treasures in heaven, any negative event in my life (death, injury, losing a job, stress, hardships) are really not that big. My mother-in-law was an old school woman, she was difficult to understand and live with. She was divorced and single for 40yrs and seemed bitter and angry her entire life, I met people that crossed paths with her and had nothing good to say about her, but there was one thing she did good and that was remain faithful to living the gospel. Her intent was pure but she was trapped in a body with a personality she inherited from birth, along with a rough childhood and crazy marriage NO ONE (except her grandkids) really liked her. She died last summer of cancer and immediately on the day of her passing we all felt such a joy and release for her, in her last blessing the bretheren said she would meet someone on the other side and get married. Her son and daughter both felt that on the second day of her passing she met someone on the other side. Prayer is powerful and works, it helps us remain focused on what really matters.

Ever since I was a kid there was always a hype and excitement, every single year, leading up to a general conference. Whether it was "this may be president Bensons last conference.." or New temples or new apostles. Whats the word for it.. hype fatigue??

This was me two years ago with my three youth daughters.... This is what I did and am doing, it works.

Over the years I have witnessed members leave the church, members come back and non-members join. They are ALL better off for having come unto Christ. After witnessing my exwife and kids leave I am learning to put all my trust and faith in Christ and try not to stress over the things I cant control.

Maureen have you ever been a member of LDS? if not then you wouldnt understand because at baptism we receive the holy ghost, literally. Mores is talking about the gift we have to feel the holy ghost testify to our hearts/bosom. The brain can be "fascinated" at anytime by anyone but the heart can only be touched by the spirit/Holy ghost. Im guessing that Mores was fascinated with the information spoken of by that member but his heart/bosom felt empty (absence of the holy ghost) in that particular time and setting. Sunday school is not the time and place for those discussions (the holy ghost testified to him of it) that is why he mentioned that it would be a good topic here and why he went to talk with the guy after Sunday school was done.

Some members will face the music and just work through unpleasurable social cultures/situations at church, most dont say a word and just disappear. My exwife and 3 daughters are one of those that disappeared. Leaders still texting me and emailing about youth activities and I dont tell them why my kids cant come, only that they cant make it or I dont reply at all. It would be embarassing for me to tell the leaders all the problems my family has with church and with some of the members. Its quite sad actually and I am torn between the two. 1,2,3,4...7 or 8 people disappear no problem the church moves on without you. 100's dissapear and now you got a stake like mine which had to eliminate 1 ward and realign boundaries 3 times in the last 15 yrs because of shrinking attendance and little if any growth. Not to mention churchwide changes in many programs to more effectively engage and serve members. In hind sight your statement stands true that the biggest and most effective way to change church culture is for individuals to change themselves. Unfortunately for the church it is the environment that these individuals have changed to find their peace without disrupting the whole, or in other words they disappear. Now instead of the individuals having a problem, the church has a problem....and not just LDS but all christian denominations are experiencing this.