priesthoodpower

not sure what you mean and based on the history of my posts in this forum...no one really knows what I mean either..but thanks for calling me friend!

The changes in policy that you mentioned seem to come as a way to counter the lack of interest that the saints are displaying in Church culture. The term "Mormon" was one example of something that is "Church culture" and not "of Jesus Christ". My ex left the Mormon church...my youth kids have lost interest in church and constantly say "Im not mormon". This mentality is wide spread in former members that left the church, they believe that they are leaving a man made organization. I believe that the continual restoration of Christs church will involve the unification of ALL Christian churchs. This is how the membership will explode. The LDS church has all the keys and ordinances, our Prophet is now figuring out how to dissolve the Mormon culture....and, might I be bold enough to say, change the perception of what it means to be a follower of Christ. To those of us who are active members we might see it as lowering the bar. Do you know how mad satan will be if it becomes easier for people to follow Christ? Currently satan is happy that the rigidity it takes to be a "mormon" keeps people away from Jesus Christ.

Several years ago I got a new hobbie, surfing. I made a goal to surf big waves and earlier this year almost drowned twice. If humans never explored space we would be without the microwave and power tools. The world would be a boring place if no one had a sense of adventure.

In a sacrament talk last week the EQ presidents wife said home is the primary learning place of the gospel, sunday school, primary and RS/EQ is secondary. Invite these inactives to sacrament only. They might like that idea.

My best wishes go out to this family they have been through so much. I was in Utah when Elizabeth was kidnapped, I didnt really follow the story and thought she was only kidnapped, apparently in that article it says she was raped....man that makes me mad.

Like Texan said, a Like button for Prayer would be sweet. My only complaint would be that if the people that post "sending prayers" dont actually say a prayer after posting.

My moms sister transitioned from female to male when she was in her 30's (about 25 yrs ago). They are such good friends as well as sisters that my mom has this mental block and cannot look at him as anything other then her, my mom still calls him by her female name and refers to him as her. He doesnt mind and doesnt even bat an eye, but if anyone else ever refers to him as a "she", even his Mother, she gets mad.

In reference to the #1 option ".. that the apostle has actually seen Jesus Christ in the flesh, spoken with him, probably touched the tokens of his crucifixion in his hands and feet." In the Churchs most official and canonized version of JS's first vision there is no mention that Joseph touched God and Jesus in a physical manner as described in the option #1 of the poll. Josephs encounter was of hearing the words and seeing two glorified personages. Thats it, nothing more nothing less. Joseph has other visits from other heavenly messengers but we are not talking about them we are talking about Christ. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-vision No other prophet since Joseph has testified meeting God or Jesus face to face, but if they did i believe it would be in a "Spiritual Vision" similar to Josephs Vision where God/Jesus would be in a glorified physical form. Now of course the Nephites got up close and personal and felt/ touched the resurrected Christ so why did not Joseph? Why was JS encounter different? I believe that God and Jesus are physical glorified beings but their interaction with an apostle (if it were to happen) would be in a spiritual vision format like JS, not literal human contact like the Nephites so #1 is not possible to me. Just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

When I was a teenager I believed #1 but now that im in my forties and especially seeing how the church has evolved in the past 20 years I no longer believe #1 and support #2 ..besides wasn't Josephs first vision more of a spiritual encounter rather then a physical one in the sense of how we understand the law of physics.

My ex-wife, born and raised in the church till age 37 when she left religion said she experienced hearing "voices" and feeling spirits her whole life. She averaged 2-5 hours of sleep a night our entire marriage because of anxiety and the spirits bothering her at all times of the day but mostly at night, most spirits were neutral entitys but some had bad intentions. I believe that some people, like my ex, are closer to the veil then others. During our marriage we tried many things including talking to several Bishops but they are not trained professionals, met with a psychiatrist and he wanted to put her on meds (glad we kicked him to the curb quickly). Interesting thing happened when she left religion at age 37, her encounters with these spirits dropped drastically. She is now 43 and says the spirits rarely bother her and she feels like she has control of her life. She says that her upbringing in mormonism contributed to the submissive nature in her personality and the spirits sensed that and took advantage of her ability of being close to the veil. My personal opinion and beliefs as being the only person to understand her situation is this..Good spirits have better things to do then hang around this earth, its the lost ones or evil ones that are roaming around. Since I believe that Satan wants us to be miserable like him he will do anything to steer us off that path to eternal life, me and the ex were married in the temple and well on our way to eternal happiness, many factors were involved in our divorce but it was interesting to learn that as soon as she left the church and our marriage the spirits stopped bothering her...they succeeded in steering her away from Christ and an eternal family. To the OP, my point is that we all have trials in this lifetime and some of the trials are not meant to be overcome but for us to endure.

If you are referring to the "Home-Centered Church" that President Nelson talks about then yes I agree too. "As Latter-day Saints we have become accustomed to thinking of 'church' as something that happens in our meetinghouses, supported by what happens at home. We need an adjustment to this pattern.....It is time for a home-centered church, supported by what takes place inside our branch, ward and stake buildings." https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900035371/president-nelson-expected-to-speak-as-latter-day-saints-gather-for-general-conference.html I stand corrected, "Less Church, More Gospel" is wrong now that "Home-Centered Church" is a thing.

I think there are two elements to this... a) leaving the Church b) leaving the Gospel of Jesus Christ My Mother was inactive for 5 years while I was a teenager, she needed a break from the social aspect of Church. She still held FHE in our home and daily prayer/ scripture reading, she sent me and my older brother off to missions while she was inactive. She temporarily left Church, not the Gospel. This was back in the early 90's, the Church has evolved since and implemented "Less Church, More Gospel", dropping the third hour down to two hour Sunday service and implementing the Come follow me home study program. My mother was ahead of her time. I recently was told by my bishop in a TR interview in regards to my sporadic Church attendance due to my Sunday work schedule..."you only need to take the sacrament to be in good standing with a TR". I attend church two-to-three times a month and leave right after sacrament meeting due to my work schedule, I get a lot of my spiritual feeding on lds.org and other church resources online. It is not impossible to think that one day Church will only be the one hour sacrament meeting...and eventually transition into a virtual thing where we log into a video conference and bless bread and water in front of the computer. Would this idea of not stepping foot into a chapel technically qualify us all as "leaving the Church?" Categorizing people (whether in school, work or church) is a human thing that we need to do in order to figure out who we are. Less Church and more Gospel is a step away from categorization and closer to Godliness.

Edited: My constructive criticism of the Church in my own experiences seems to offend some of you which is hilarious because I used to be like that until I decided to listen to what people are complaining about. There are two kinds of people that leave the church. The ones that become anti (hundreds) and the ones that leave in silence (tens of thousands and most of them are still on Church rosters). The Church has a problem, in this internet age people are leaving, human beings are losing trust in ALL religious organizations. God on the other hand does not have a problem because in this internet age people are learning more about him organically. I think that the internet is part of Gods plan, its a tool that will soon spread his Gospel faster and to all the corners of the earth. Im noticing a trend.. 1. While shopping malls are closing because people are not going there or at least not spending their money there, Amazon and other online retailers are thriving because goods are delivered directly to peoples homes. You get to shop without having to see a disgruntled cashier or be around loud obnoxious shoppers (walmart). 2. I got half way through college in 2001 and dropped out (for many reasons), attempted a comeback in 2008 via Phoenix universitys half in-class half online program, didnt last one semester (for many reasons). In 2018 I learned of an accelerated 100% online university called WGU out of Saltlake, finished my remaining 65 credits in 10 months from the comfort of my own home without having to see a classmate or instructor. Was I gonna be a loser without a degree the rest of my life because I couldnt function in a normal "American" college environment? all it took was for a new company to change the environment and I thrived. Most Churches including LDS have a very Americanized environment which I believe is limiting, God is not an American, our Prophet is working on changing the environment and eventually the Gospel will explode. The internet will alllow us, the LDS saints, to function individually and remotely. I know soo many inactives who are broken and beaten up from life that want the goodness of worshiping God in his true gospel but dont want to walk in a chapel feeling judged because they have tattoos, a different style of dress, or a bad reputation. These people will thrive if given the chance. God loves to be worshiped so I think he would be pretty disappointed with us (Members and Leadership) if we cant figure it out, correction, people will always worship God regardless of religion, its our job to teach the Gospel. A change in the environment will allow all this to happen. My ex had a best friend she went to college with, after college they went their separate ways. We got married and so did her best friend and a year later we found ourselves in the same ward together. We had two children born the same year as them and for 7 years while we were in that ward we did a lot of things together, family get togethers, FHE's, New years etc..We moved a couple of streets over into another ward boundary and although we didn't see them on Sundays her and my wife (at the time) still hung out. My wife (at the time) left the Church but no one knew, she just stopped going, didnt say anything on facebook, but her selfies now featured her in "out of standards" clothing. We no longer saw her friend. My ex was the same person just not religious, without having to type a novel it was obvious her friends friendship was based on religion and not genuine connection, or should I say it was genuine as long as the Church was the commonality. You can see why my wife (at the time) wanted nothing to do with religion anymore, not just mormons but religion in general. She still has a strong relationship with God. uhhhhhh....a relationship between parent/child is way different then a visiting teacher and a member. But lets run with your parent/child explanation which I agree with. There is a reason why Church went from 3 hours to 2 and is pushing more toward a home centered Gospel, its because the correlation between obligation and love is not being met by people with callings, in fact the opposite is happening, members dont want to be assigned a friend, or in the case of inactives...becoming a project. Ideally we would learn from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBRqoJEXMhU but sadly, no one has the time. Its easier to develop "REAL love" from "obligation" in your own home where the Prophet is steering the Church. Have you ever unfriended someone on facebook? That's the equivalent of my wife (at the time) leaving the Church, she "Unfriended" the church. Now imagine the person that you unfriended on facebook showing up at your door step unannounced with baked goods. This is no longer the 1990's, everyone has a cell phone and everyone is accessible at any minute of the day. My Dad and brothers love and respect me enough to not appear unannounced at my doorstep unless I respond to their text/call that they want to stop by. The members have my cell phone but not one of them txt'd or called when stopping by, yet those same people will text or call reminding me of activitys. This is not a me problem, its a societal change and the Church is slowly catching on.

Lived in Provo for 10 years, loved every minute of it but did notice that you are screwed when you are outnumbered, and this goes for anything anywhere in life. I now live in a region with less then 5% LDS and its as Godless says "Live and let live", unless you surround your self with the 5%. lol. My ex wife left the church 7 yrs ago while we were married, not in an apostate or anti kind of way, she just said, "Im done with religion". It was during this time that I was caught in the middle of "The Church" and "The Leaver". I gotta admit that I was on the churches side, heck I was born and raised, its in my blood and Im very proud to be Mormon but sadly I witnessed well intentioned people from the church behave disingenuously. Our family was now on the ward councils weekly retention list and one member with a calling that never said Hi to us before is now stopping by with baked goods. A Primary leader with a kid same age as my young one offering my kids a ride to church (because I work on most Sundays) but never offering to do anything with my kids outside of church. Missionaries, Home Teachers, Visiting Teachers stopping by un-announced...heck my Dad and Brothers don't even come over unless they call or text. I had to tell the Bishop to put our Family on the do not contact list because they just wouldn't leave us alone and when they changed callings a new person would UP the activation efforts and a new set of people would come over un-announced again. Although I admire the great faith of these members, because I been in their shoes before, I got to admit that I did not see God or Love in any of their efforts. Love is kindness and coming over to visit because you have a calling is not kindness, its obligation and that was made very clear to me because every single person that made efforts to befriend us while they had a calling, never bothered to interact with us when they got released from that calling. I now know why some people call us robots.

We have all witnessed major changes to policy of our church the past couple years. As this article and many before it states...we will continue to hear the words "this is not lessening the emphasis of <insert current policy>" Yes, humans are weak, numbers and statistics are important and the church is pivoting.

In regards to the new "Come Follow me" family home learning curriculum, My local leaders said that in 20 years will see the difference between those who have been doing it and those who have not. So I guess the world is good for at least the next 20yrs. Personally I believe this statement is meant on a more individual basis in that we need to get our act together, I also know that there are lessons in life that I would never have learned, that God needed me to learn, had I not been down the darker paths in life...those lessons for me happen on the lords time and on the plan he has for me individually. I agree, the LDS church as well as any other church or religion gets less and less popular the more they try to describe past or future events/stories/prophets with "I think...Im guessing...I believe..." Our leaders are steering the church in the right direction. Less middleman, more direct relationship to God by doing personal searching and studying. One day we may never need to step foot in a chapel, just log on from home and worship via the internet on a live stream. Half the church roster who are already inactive would re-activate because they still love God but dont feel they fit in with their local wards.

As children of God we are here to solve problems and grow. The automobile brought upon us many traffic related deaths and sadness, it also brought the ability to spread the gospel further and faster. The internet is doing the same thing. Flying cars will do the same thing and inhabiting Mars will do the same thing. Before you know it, the year will be 4040 and some one will predict the end of the world again.

Do it for you, because YOU know its right, and forget what others think or say. The last 4 years of my marriage when my wife left the church - I felt I was being pulled in two directions and I was pointing fingers and trying to find blame in every thing. It took me those 4 years to realize that it shouldnt be a battle of "my church" vs. "your church" or me vs. the world. There is only one direction, the Lords direction, follow him and he will take care of everyone else in your life including your kids and husband. I know because I have kids too and the biggest changes I seen them make was when I focused myself on the Gospel. My daughter asked me the other day. "Daddy do you love God more then us?" I said, "God is first because he is the greatest teacher in teaching me how to love and take care of you guys, by putting God first I am putting family first."

otherwise known as "do-while" and "if-else" statements in programming which will result in zil's complex database with perfect referential and data integrity.

wait a sec, I was fishing/hunting with a ward member who is in his 70's, as we had long talks and the subject of tithing came up, he mentioned that in his recent tithing settlement meeting that the newly appointed bishop (of only 5 months) emphasized the ability "to pay tithing as best he could" rather then emphasizing exact 10% on increase. This member, who served in the bishopric in years past, made it sound like the spirit of the law is taking favor over the letter of the law in regard to tithing. This is something I find interesting because members usually get rejected of their temple recommends if they dont pay at least 10% tithing. Our YW group is planning a trip this summer so I may direct more of my tithing monies to them directly instead of the general tithing fund.The Lord will understand.

My daughter is in YW. I noticed in the past at their bake sales that members (usually parents of the YW) will buy a few cookies or cup cakes and write a check for $500 or something like that. I do the same, just give them some big bills but skip the sugary snacks. Ideas about how to depart money from other members? not sure.

Today was the first day of our new 2 hour block Sunday meetings, it went by fast. It was also the first Sunday back in my ward after attending another ward for 1 yr due to my work schedule. The saying "less church and more home" is pretty much the feeling I felt. In Sunday school a member mentioned that we need to take ownership of our learning and not rely on the teacher to teach us (less church and more home), he even suggested hypothetically that maybe one day we will not be meeting at chapels anymore and we need to continue our spiritual growth on our own in our own homes. After hearing the OPs post about the stickler Stake President, its an all too familiar story of why members go inactive. After my wife left the church 6 yrs ago (because of drama with other members) I was very offended by her decision and took on the role of preacher trying to dictate to her what she is doing is wrong, after a few years of living with this mindset it was evident that there was no harmony in our home, the spirit could not dwell. I have slowly come around and learned to have compassion and accept her for who she is...a child of God, im still learning and growing in this regard but it was a little to late, we divorced a year ago but still co-exist as roommates raising our children, we still function as our same ol family unit as we feel it is important for our kids sake. Things are going good and as I focus on my own personal spirituality and being less judgemental toward others im a more tolerable person to be around in our home, the kids love me but they do not love it when I force them to go to church. Their experiences at church is that there is not enough friends in their classes, the youth program is small, and the teachers are boring. I dont blame them and Im glad that President Nelson is giving me more tools and more opportunities to teach them in my own home. My personal opinion about "less church and more home" is to spend less time with members/leaders you cant tolerate and more time with the people that matter most, your family, friends and Jesus Christ.

Make an effort to be a part of your daughters lives as they grow up, they will always remember this and this will be a huge part of the legacy you leave behind. I will always remember how hard my Mom and Dad cared for and loved me and my siblings. Our family was centered around the Gospel. Now days, later in life we have all gone in different directions and dont see nor talk to each other much but our foundation and memories are special to me.

Awesome catch, I never thought about it from this perspective.

Understood, however It conflicts with what zil said just a couple of posts down. (from Hugh Nipley).. masses cannot be controlled but we can control our individual selves (we can repent) When our leaders use the term "We must prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ", if we cant control the masses, and in this case I am referring to the wards and LDS congregation masses, then its basically a call to repentance to each individual using a reward system in which no one really knows if the reward exists (Christs return), critics would say its manipulation. I have heard this argument from members who have left the church or are inactive and I can understand how they feel. In church terms you cant "ready a society" without the individuals, for example serving as a bishop is a contribution to "preparing the saints (society)", but one cannot have that calling, and other callings, unless worthy. To "ready our society" basically is a call for individuals to be worthy to operate and serve in the Lords church, without worthy (repentant) servants there is no leadership and no Kingdom of God on earth. My grandfather retired at 70 and died at 96 in 2003. He was a stk patriarch for 30 yrs and a very righteous, faithful saint. The last 20yrs of his life he sat on the edge of his couch watching TV keeping track of world events, all the wars, the economy etc..Every year that passed by he was more sure that the end times were fast approaching, he knew that no one knew the time or place but seeing the urgency on his face and in his voice was something that I will never forget. It broke my heart on the morning that he passed, he lay there on his bed not having the chance of experiencing in his lifetime something that he had so much hope for. 1. Was the hope of witnessing the second coming enough motivation to keep my grandfather on the straight and narrow path? Is this Christianitys way of keeping control of the saints? Me personally, I have no problem with Prophets and scriptures calling us to repentance and usually somewhere in there is found the phrase "..to prepare us for the second coming of Jesus Christ", if critics refer to this as a manipulative reward system, an alternate phrase could be simply "to prepare to meet Jesus Christ". Im not saying to change scripture but when we give talks on the podium maybe we can be more mindful of it. Not sure if all this even makes sense, I dont mean to be confrontational but I have more courage to talk of these things now especially after the past few years where the changes in our church seem to be along the lines of damage control and problem solving.