priesthoodpower

Church brings me stress, no different then the amount of stress that work/family produce. Church has taught me about Jesus. Jesus brings me peace.

The doctrine can change too..if it comes from the prophet via God. We went from old testament to New testament to the Restoration, polygamy came and went, blacks and the priesthood....all were updates to the system. I think that the prophets prior to Nelson were kind of like reinforcers of the law where Nelson seems to be more solutions oriented to the problems of the day. Who's to say that God is sitting and waiting for the bretheren to ask about a solution for our lgbtq brothers and sisters. If polygamy (one man + multiple women) is a celestial law. Whos to say a potential solution for a lesbian couple is to add a man to their relationship? They are now able to procreate and fullfill Gods plan, or two gay men need to add a woman? I understand the sexual orientation problem here but cmon lets start thinking of love oriented solutions instead of fearful punishments and condemnation.

Yes, and the solution is always a system. Back to this lgbtq topic, the gospel of jesus christ is a system, im confident in our current and future prophets that we will find solutions.

Yes, because the problem is not the people, it is the system. Changing the name from H.T. to ministering was not the solution because obviously the results stayed the same. So why keep chastising the people? ..and i would never discuss the REAL ISSUES like this in EQ nor would any other member due to a risk of looking like a black sheep, instead most of us just nod our heads and agree with anything the EQ pres says.

"They get better when they distance themselves from negative messages or rejecting spaces while they are still healing." This is not just for lgbtq in church but normal "sensitive" members too that feel they are not living up to their callings or church standards. Last month stk pres made his rounds in the wards and came down hard on us for the lack of missionary work. Every month in EQ they are forcing the ministering message due to the lack of results...its become a fear based environment that those who leave the church use as their reason.

Is opposition a necessary part of learning and growth?

Would have been cool and totally mainstream if they released it in season format on netflix. After the bom story go into the JS restoration. I know the rest of the world would enjoy it. It would be the new missionary tool.

Im 43 yrs old and recently divorced from a 15 yr temple marriage. I come from a strong Mormon family that goes back to the pioneer saints in Utah. I read that article and I can tell you that my parents relationship lacked a lot of the elements in that article, they divorced (8yrs ago) after 40 yrs of their temple marriage. The issues and behaviors that affected their marriage manifested itself in my own marriage. In my experience the patriarchal order is in trouble because of a lack on the mans part. We need to educate and teach this more to our young men.

Very true.

This is exactly how full time missionaries live and reminds me of my own mission way of living. It was the best two years of my life but I wouldnt want to do it again. I will admit that the entire two years on my mission while living in that manner I experienced a spiritual high. Not to say I felt super spiritual everyday but when I finally returned home, the first month was an adjustment period where I literally felt that spiritual high slowly distancing its self away from me till I acclimated back into the dark and dreary world. "In the world but not of the world", maybe thats why Maureen thinks its impractical and said the list resembles a robot. I would have probably agreed with her but I did serve a mission and experienced this spiritual high and know its possible and quite real. I mean dont get me wrong, i still sinned on my mission and had companion problems etc...but the intent and dedication of serving the Lord and proselyting 24/7 is what the journey was all about.

This describes my ex wife who was so charitable and loving to everyone and served in her callings with honor...until she realized that there was a culture where some leaders just delegate their own tasks to everyone else. Her kindness was taken advantaged of for years until she finally got fed up and left the church.

This describes my generation, always being judged feeling inadequate to live perfect gospel standards and its back fired in the way of members leaving the church. We can all see these new changes from a mile away its called damage control.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. This has got to be the paragraph of the year. Your humility is a breath of fresh air. * For the record. There have been many people that have had near death experiences where they talk to angels or even God himself, one particular NDE said she Talked to God, she asked God which religion or church is his, God told her none of them. Im sure vort will chime in here and say she was deceived because its not the answer that vort wanted to hear. smh!

If you served a mission, you and I both know that our Mission Presidents taught us that our best resource is our testimony and the spirit, thats it. These other things you point out is all fine and dandy for me and you as believers but to non-members/non-believers it means nothing and proves nothing. Let me be clear here: 1. Im playing devils advocate. 2. I believe in Jesus. Is he a real resurrected being in the flesh? Yes, I believe it. Did I see, hear or touch him? No, all I have to go on is my faith based on the history of prophets and storys in two books that testify of him. 3. In the convincing of investigators that Jesus is our Savior we have nothing other then the two books to testify of it. Are these two books credible? I myself personally believe so but just Look at this thread and see how nit picky people can get about that credibility so imagine what critics and naysayers have to say about it. 4. There is a place called Antarctica that not a lot of people have been to but we know it exists because of pictures, video and books that have been written by scientists that have visited that continent. If I wanted to I could get on a boat and travel there and confirm that Antarctica exists. 100% of the people in this world would agree that Antarctica exists even if 99% of us will never visit it. My argument with the resurrected Jesus Christ (his earthly ministry is a little different of an argument) is that only a handful of people saw him face-to-face and no one else can do that anymore. Only 15 people saw the Golden plates and no one else can see it anymore. As missionaries we were taught that without the spirit you will not convert anyone so what does that say about the tangible resources that currently exist?

Vort can learn a lesson from your post because he thinks Jesus talks to him when in fact its the spirit that testifies of Jesus. You believe in Jesus so to you he is real, same goes for the 33% of Christians in this world. The other 67% of the world cannot be convinced that Jesus was a real person so to them he is not real. As a Christian myself I cannot convince anyone that Jesus was real, let alone his divinity, I can only tell them that I have faith and I believe in him and hopefully they will become believers too. I taught hundreds of people on my mission in Japan and only baptized five, If Jesus was real I would had have more resources other then just two biased books (Bible/BKofM) to proclaim his existence and divinity. To make matters worse, as you can see in this thread even the members in this forum cannot even agree on the authenticity of the BkofM. The bible is in the same boat.

You mean to tell me that you spoke to both Santa Clause and Jesus?! Wow! I need to get on your level. PP: There is a place for everyone in Christs church. Vort: There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. PP: Is that what Jesus told you? Vort: Yup

My non-member friend said to me 10 yrs ago..."The Church is as real as you want it to be." Its not a negative thing because he ended up marrying a member girl and they are raising a family in the church, but it seems like as more time goes by we are realizing that statement to hold more weight.

This is the last straw for me, like many others my family already lost faith in leaders, members, church history and policies. Ive been struggling too and this past sunday in church I really felt the negative energy of several individuals, none of which are leaders thankfully, just regular members that have something stuck up their butts. The thing im experiencing is that when my ex left the church and my kids began being borderline inactive, some members think u are going apostate and they avoid u like the plague. Other members try to show empathy but when you dont tell them the details of your problems, which is none of their business, they start to think you dont like them. Then there is everyone else who are understanding because they have been there done that or are just really cool people. I was inspired one night 2 months ago to start reading the bk of mormon and fast. Still havent started but this might be the thread that gets me going.

Thanks. When I was 19yrs old about to go into the MTC I had an experience. The light of GOD filled my body with 100 gazillion megawatts of light, peace and happiness, I felt like I was floating, I felt like I was experiencing Heaven. No words, no vision, just an "out of this world" feeling. *I know believe the light of God filled my body...I believe I was experiencing heaven.

I would argue that recent changes in the living church are going the way of the world which is not a bad thing and actually welcomed. For example garment styles have become more comfortable, home teaching became more convenient and less rigid. Because mormons are obedient and great at sustaining our prophet even though some things make no sense (coffee a no no but sugary soda is ok). All we need is the prophet to approve some little thing that the world has a problem with and we become more accepted. There are many active and inactives that have a problem with church attendance because of its social setting or their work schedules, the change from 3hr to 2hr is a step toward worldly change. I believe in the future we will no longer need to step into a chapel, worship will be done online or virtual. This will help increase membership and activity. EXCITING TIMES INDEED!

As I have discovered in the sports world, more so Football, you need a good SYSTEM and ATHLETES that BUY IN to it. Every team in the NFL has a strategy and system that is designed to succeed and ultimately win a superbowl. The New England patriots have been the most winningest franchise the past decade despite the unethical behaviour that happens behind the scenes (spy gate, deflate gate, etc..) aka cheating. The athletes on the field are unaware of such behavior and dont have time nor is it their jobs to worry about it. The athletes are disciplined and obedient enough to execute and maximize the potential of the SYSTEM. This UNITY leads to success. I never would have imagined that the strength of our church would come down to the front lines, the obedience and dedication of its members, because the history and authenticity of our leaders are questionable, we are left to believe in each other. "There is strength in numbers" is basically what it comes down to. I think the anti crowd should focus on finding their own group of believers to join instead of trying to destroy another group. In the NFL jealosy, greed and hate is not a formula for success.

God exists = Truth to many (not a fact) God does not exist = Truth to many (not a fact) This apple is green = Fact, everyone agrees. Fact > Truth Absolute truth is still truth.

I was reffering to vorts statement which infers an all-or-nothing scenario, which statement is not word for word doctrine. Should we just have the missionaries make it clear from the first contact. "We want to share the word of God with you today but if you are not ready to make and KEEP covenants then this is not the Church for you. By the way if you plan on breaking covenants its better off that you never stepped into the covenants in the first place. so choose wisely before accepting us in to your home, because you cant just have us in for dinner because we will be prompted to invite u to baptism within the first 30 minutes of meeting you...and count that on the records in heaven that messengers invited you to baptism but you denied us. Heck you dont even have to invite us in anymore because you already answered the door.....sorry but you have a choice to make right now...all or nothing...heaven or hell."

Is that what Jesus told you? Id hate to break it to you but every piece of literature and information about God/Jesus in this world is second/third/fourth hand information. Your truth is not my truth and vice versa the holy ghost doesn't speak to you the same way he speaks to me. Until Jesus himself comes out with a Youtube Channell NO ONE knows his full will/intent/Love. Its foolish for one human to tell another human that you cant join Christs church because of (fill in the blank). The Gospel gives us an idea of the path to eternal salvation but the finer details are between the individual and God. Covenants were made to be broken or else repentance is not neccesary but excuse me if you are the only perfect soul on earth that can keep a covenant thus making you the only member of Christs church. Both statements below are true! There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. There is a place for everyone in Christs church.

I understand this statement to mean that the apostles are working to create a culture of worship that is inclusive rather then exclusive in nature. There is a place for everyone in Christs church. Dropping the term mormon is a good start.