RuthiesMom

I think my problem is more that he didn't only use the stones buried with the plates, but he used his treasure seeker stone as well.

Thanks for more insight. I do believe it has helped... However I must admit that as I still try to dig through this stuff at a snail's pace...and totally sleep deprived. I now see the church through a sceptic's eye. I don't trust what I read or study anymore, I don't allow myself to feel what I maybe would have felt during my church meetings. This has just put a sting in my heart that I never would have expected to come from my faith that I loved. It makes me leery to trust. The more I have tried to talk with friends and family, the more I have come to realize just how misinformed people are about these issues. Its been interesting, but dissapointing at the same time. I am still searching for peace...which i haven't felt in a long time now. My heart just hurts and I am just kindof stuck, praying every night for some mind of "ah-hah", where either this stuff won't matter for me because God will let me know that it doesn't matter, or because I will come to an understanding with answers that make sense. But with my small kids, it is hard to do get a shower in every day, let alone actually sit down and do real research. And the research I have done so far hasn't exactly just checked off my questions on issues either. Seems to just drudge up more questions. I still feel lied to. The church history stuff (JSmith and BYoung) is really bothering me and I do not feel like this church is any more enlightened or true than any other...and I am still very much in doubt that there is a God at all now. ...and it sucks. I don't eat, I don't sleep...My heart hurts, my joy is not what it was (not even close)... I can't enjoy my kids or anything else that would make me just smile inside no matter what. And my kids and husband are also paying the price because this has hurt my ability to be happy even for them. Its just sucked the light right out of my heart...and I am worried that I gotta teach my kids just how complicated this world really is...that nothing is what it seems, not even their faith (that they should trust the most). Sorry for the depressing reply... Been a really hard few weeks. But then there is one sticking thing for me...that the whitnesses never ever denied what they saw...even thru everything. Through my reading I am unsure, but i am assuming that is their experience with not inly the book but the angel as well. And I am sure some of you think "well there ya go! Its true!" But the sting is there...I gotta somehow sort the rest out.

Some information I have found in my current search for more answers... From mormonchallenges channel. Thoughts?

Thanks for some much needed perspective and dialogue. I am going to start with Just A Guy's resources, continue with prayer and scripture and once more take up the challenge in Moroni. Although I already have atleast twice. Just curious, why is Crucible of Doubt not the best idea? What about the God Who Weeps?"

yes, mdfxdb thats how I see it. Just trying to find the line between a good man who makes mistakes...and a man looking for power and riches... Ps, sorry for the very poorly written messages! Gotta write super fast and get back to the kiddos.

Thanks jane_doe. Yes, that makes sense to me and helps quite a bit. :) Folk Prophet... I guess its just the culmination of all of it, not just one thing. We learn about controversial stuff little by little, slowly digesting it and making peace with it or just swallowing it so we can move on with life and hope it makes sense later. I knew about polygamy and blacks and the priesthood and the fact that half the stuff brigham young did was weird. But I didnt know about the history of Abraham, fanny and polygamy being done in secret, much to the pain of Emma...oh yeah and the rock in the hat. I think its allll of it.

I really appreciate your comments. That is helping a lot already. In response to some questions... Yes I have felt the spirit in my life, and I do still believe that Christ is there for me...I have continued to pray every day and night and ask God to lead me to His truth. This is much better for me than the very hopeless hollow feeling that this is all there is...that there is no God. My spiritual experiences have been nice and have healed my heart in some times of hardships. However, I must admit after reading that stuff...I now have a skeptic's eye, and more than ever a desire to be completely honest with myself. I am reevaluating exactly what it was I felt and experienced. Is this a conditioned/trained state of mind? Like I said, my own personal experience has brought me peace...not every time I have asked for it, sometimes even begged...I have had blessings "come true", and others that haven't. But never had whitnessed an outright "miracle"...but have whitnessed the opposite a few times. My family members and in-laws that are lds are quite often delusional. For example, my mother in law believed she had spiritual revelation indicating what gender my kids were before we found out. Well, she was wrong both times and is so upset about it she has to tell me that somehow I lead her to the wrong gender in her mind. ...whacko. Our ward of the last 7years has also been hard...lots more whackadoos. So most of the time I feel like an island with my set of beliefs. The voice of reason in my mind tells me that God wants us to be happy, and not decieved. I also firmly believe that truth will not require a bunch of mental gymnastics...that in most cases, truth is simple. Somehow I need to recognize the imperfectness of others. However, if this stuff is taken at face value...the church has been built on a foundation of lies...which would mean it cannot be true, not matter how much forgiveness is given to the leaders for their follies. BUT, those experiences between me and my God is what has me still here, seeking understanding and answers.

I am sure this has all been seen here before, so I appreciate any of you taking time to read this. After googling some items to find information for a Sunday lesson, I came upon an essay on the lds website, that lead me to another and to another... Reading all kinds of information I had never heard before...on pages that seemed to be thru the "back door" of the LDS site. I always trusted my heart and the spirit in navigating my faith and never paid any attention to the scripture debates...amd trusted the information given me at church and what I would read on my own in the scriptures. After reading about Joseph looking into a hat with stones in it, and then just using a treasure hunting rock, while the plates sat next to him wrapped up in a hankercheif. Then the essay about the book of Abraham and how their egyptian alphabet doesnt match the alphabet modern scholars use...and the facsimilies don't really match what modern scholars translate them to mean...? Then the essay about Joesph smith and polygamy and Fanny Alger and the timing of the polygamy revelation, and it all being done in secret... I hate tried my whole life to live a genuine, honest life. Honesty is huge for me. These little tidbits of "hidden" information have crushed me. I am completely devastated, and for the first time in my life, I believed the church is in fact a man-made institution. I was so sick about the idea, that I threw up...then I just layed in my bed and cried. For the first time in my life, I have a real belief that there really isn't a God. That this church is no better than any other, with lies and secrets and apparently a very muddy past...just like all the others. Nothing good comes from secrets, and now I have no idea how to trust this establishment. I am completely broken. The ONE thing I truly believed I could trust...my faith in God...has been shattered. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng#26 I am not even sure where to begin...I obviously need to find more information but finding reliable information online isn't exactly making things any better. i just read that the visions in the Nauvoo temple were really because everyone had fasted all day and then got really really drunk. It just gets worse and worse. And then a now atheist watched his sweet wife die of cancer, holding printed copies of blessings she had received that promised her more time, but she died early anyway. And the stuff on wikipedia for Oliver Cowdary is just more stuff that just hurts my heart. I don't remember the sources for these and I suspect they are unreliable, but I can't stop thinking about them. I need to make sense of all this, and find out the TRUTH. I have 2 kids under the age of 2 and they need all of my energy and attention. my time to be able to really dig into this stuff is extremely limited, and my brain is mush from sleep deprivation and sick kids...I can't get it out if my mind...but I am so sick over this that I need some reliable direction or help...atleast while I chip away and digest all this stuff. and eventually decide what this means for me and my little family's future. My kids need me and I need to be able to give them all my attention...not be preoccupied with this dark rabbit hole. Any help or perspective is greatly appreciated.