Latter-Day Marriage

I don't dispute that at all, Two is worse than just one. I'm saying the difference between none and one is likely a bigger difference to him than the difference between one and two past lovers. That doesn't mean either of them are minor events.

Elder Oaks said in his Oct 2004 General Conf talk 'Be Not Deceived' he said : But God always knows. And He has repeatedly warned that the time will come when our iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and our secret acts shall be revealed” Not 'their iniquities', ours. Or in this case the OP, her secret acts shall be revealed then if not sooner. Elder Faust said in the Oct 2000 General Conf talk 'The Enemy Within': The truth about who we are and what we do will ultimately become known. The Lord has given us this sober reminder: “For their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed." I think those two understand the scriptures and atonement well enough. The point is we will see that every judgment passed over ever person is both just and merciful because you will know the whole story of their life. What they did, why they did it, what pressures they faced, how they felt, what handicaps they had, how deep their regret was, how sincere their repentance was. Think of the movie 'A Christmas Carol', would it be so great if it only showed what happened from Christmas morning onward? No, that great glorious tale of redemption had to start with exposing his wrongdoing. Those who are repentant will have their own tale of redemption told, and those who were not repentant will have their tragedy told. A lot of times people who have found forgiveness of some great misdeed are not ashamed to tell those close to them the story of how they fell and were redeemed. You can't become like God without becoming omniscient as God is, and that would include knowing all the things others have done. If I do sin X and repent of it and you come to know I did X and come to know that I repented of it, it changes nothing about my being clean before God as a result of their repentance. Also, the OP is not the only person in the universe who knows what she did. The guy knows, what if they run into him or somebody he told? One spiteful remark and that's it. She may have said something to a friend, family member, or written something about it in a journal. She might talk in her sleep. There is no way to be 100% sure he won't find out in mortality, but even then the day will come when her secret deeds are exposed and if she puts it off till the very end it will be too late to heal the damage she has done. All she has to do is go to him now and say something like: "Remember when I told you about the big mistake I made before I met you? I (may have?) lead you to think I told you everything but I didn't and my conscience really bothers me about it. I saw how hurt you were by what I did share and I couldn't bear to hurt you more by giving you the whole story so I kept some things back. I shouldn't have done that and I need to come fully clean with you. What I didn't tell you was _______ Please forgive me, I didn't want to deceive you or trick you, I just wanted to spare myself from seeing you hurt more but this marriage is more important to me than anything and it won't thrive when there are secrets. I'll answer any questions you ask, do whatever you need me to do to feel emotionally secure in our marriage and to reconcile with each other. I want you to love me for who I really am, warts and all. Please forgive me." She can have peace of mind from that, and I expect a better marriage in the long run too. The difference between her sleeping with one guy or two guys isn't that big a difference, but the misleading him about it is and that is what I expect he will have the hardest time with.

You are taking 'remember them no more' far too literally. God is omniscient, he knows all things. If he truly did forget something or even was able to forget something, then he would not be omniscient. He is perfectly capable of recalling the past sins of those who have repented, he just chooses not to bring them into remembrance and they have no bearing on how he deals with us. And all that has nothing to do with Luke 12: 2-3 either. In Luke Christ is teaching that there is no covering up what you did or said, it will all be exposed and he didn't put any kind of limit on it only being things not repented of. He was warning his disciples to not become hypocrites like that Pharisees, all their doings will come to light so don't do that. I know that is a teaching that makes pretty much everybody pretty uncomfortable, but that is what Christ said and trying to make it mean something else is not going to change the truth of it. Everything you do, everything I do, everything anybody has ever done, good and bad, repentance and rebellion, is all going to be exposed to humanity and we will see in perfect detail all of God's justice and mercy. Her husband won't need Christ to tell him what she did either. Assuming he makes it to the CK, he too will at some point become omniscient and know then although I expect he'll find out a lot sooner. For a sinner, the point in going to their Bishop to repent of a serious transgression is to become clean from the stain of sin and to find healing for their soul. At the end when everything is revealed it can go one of two ways, a person has their sin revealed along with a lifetime of hiding it and not being repentant of it, or a person has their sin revealed as well as the pain of their regret and all they did to repent of it and change and become clean again. It will be a tragic story of person's fall and self destruction, or a glorious tale of a person's redemption. Now in this specific case, she has no need to go see the Bishop about it. Her sin is lying, deceiving, tricking, misleading etc her husband and whether it is by commission or omission doesn't make any difference. That is something she can repent of without going to the Bishop but there is no way she can repent of that without going to her husband and confessing it to him. She can't hide this and be cleansed of it and she will not have peace and emotional security in her marriage knowing that she is hiding a bomb that could go off any day.

Shhhh.... don't tell the Catholics. It really upsets them.

Also, is is HIGHLY unlikely that after her first revelation that one of his questions wasn't if there was anything more than that unless she said that before he could ask. Any guy hearing news like that would want confirmation that that was all there was. Even without that however she is misleading him by keeping the full story from him.

It doesn't say "For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed except for _________" I've taken nothing out of context but you are free to post whatever verses you feel support your claim. God knows everything, when we repent of something he doesn't go and dig up the memory of our sin and hold it against us (ie: bring it into his remembrance), but he still knows. Clearly you and I are not going to agree on this and the OP is going to have to make a choice. I'm speaking from the POV of a husband who had to deal with a similar kind of hurt. Marriage counselors also tell couples they need to inform their future spouse of all past relationships before marriage, and failure to do so is in some places grounds to annul a marriage. I know probably as well as a man can know what he is going to feel if she tells him and yet I'm the one saying she should do it. Short term pain, long term blessing that make it more than worth it.

A lie of omission is still a lie. Plus repenting includes confessing to those you have hurt by your sins, and that would mean her husband. The whole motive for keeping it a secret is to avoid the natural consequences of her actions and that alone proves it is the wrong thing to do. She needs to repent of her misleading him. Also, Christ put no qualifier on what he said in those verses. It is a popular myth that the things we repent of will stay hidden but that isn't doctrine. Everything will be revealed, you can't become like God without becoming as all knowing as God is. But that also means that in addition to a person's sins, their regret and repentance will also be known. His reaction to the first revelation was perfectly normal, feeling hurt, having questions, nothing immature about that. He sought answers so their relationship could move forward. Immature would be holding a grudge, hating her, leaving her over it. I expect having dealt with this once the sex part won't be as big a deal for him again. The hiding it from him would likely the the hardest thing for him to forgive and the longer she hides it the harder it will be for him.

No, she absolutely was obligated to tell him everything about herself that would be relevant to him deciding if he wanted to marry her or not and this counts as part of that. She is lying by letting him think there is nothing more when really there is. She is deceiving him. She is sinning right now and every day she keeps it from him. She said that while he was hurt with what he did find out, he was still glad she told him, so he seems to be mature enough to work this out.

Luke 12:2-3 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. Christ said that. Sooner or later, he is going to find out, the only question is how and when. Sooner is better than later. A voluntary confession is better than finding out some other way. Keeping it secret longer is compounding her error. Her relationship with her husband matters too and the longer she hides the truth from him the more damage is done when it finally comes to light.

The truth will out, and we won't magically be impervious to having our feelings hurt after we die. That compassion doesn't mean there won't be consequences. He is not obligated to be her husband for eternity if he feels she dealt poorly with him during life. She was obligated to tell him before they got married. Full disclosure so an INFORMED consent can be given. She robbed him of that, she in effect tricked him into marrying her. In some places an undisclosed past relationship is grounds for annulment. It was wrong and so far she has NOT repented of that. To repent she needs to come clean to him and work it out as a couple, with professional counseling if needed. The benefit will be that she won't not burdened with guilt, their relationship won't suffer the slow poison of secrets, he gets to find out by her coming forward voluntarily which makes it easier to achieve reconciliation instead of catching her in a lie and, realizing she has been lying and deceiving him for years (and last I checked lying was a sin). He won't have to wonder if she is only sorry she got caught. Once it is resolved she can have the joy of knowing that her husband knows everything about her past and still loves her, no nagging question of if he would love her if he knew. He would have the security of knowing there are no more surprises, knowing that she has changed and isn't that person any longer. They would have a chance to truly become one as God wants and that can't happen when one person is hiding something from the other. And if he by some chance decides to leave her over this (which would be an over reaction IMHO) then they both have the blessing of getting to start over knowing how to do better than last time. They get a chance to do it right and make it last for eternity. Either way there is pain, but if she keeps up the lie and puts off the pain to the end then it will be too late to do anything to remedy it. I'm speaking from experience here. My wife did something while I was on my mission that she hid from me. It wasn't a sin, but it was a betrayal of our relationship that hurt me deeply. She hid it and I found out on my own and it would have been so much better if she came to me and told me herself. It took a long, long time, before it was worked out and I actually could believe again that she really loved me. It would have been so much better if she had told him before they married but the past can't be changed. The best she can do is tell him now. The longer she hides it, the longer she is lying to him, deceiving him, and the harder it will be for them to reconcile.

And how is he going to feel on judgement day when he finds everything out plus the fact that she hid it from him his whole life? Everything done in the shadows will be shouted from the housetops. Her conscience is bothering her about this for a reason and she should listen to that. You can't become one with somebody you are keeping secrets from. It was wrong of her to keep this from him and she has not repented of that. Repenting of that includes telling him. Yes it will upset him, but if they work through it well they will have a much better relationship than what is possible if she doens't tell him.

Hi Ray, welcome to the board. Yes, it is wrong that you didn't tell him. He deserved to make his covenants fully informed. How would you feel if he hid something from you like that? You may feel like he tricked you into marriage by withholding information you should have had before making that commitment. I think you already know that down inside, right? You need to come clean on all past relationships. Don't leave him with any unanswered questions, don't sentence him to a lifetime of wondering what revelation will come next. A secret like that will eat away at you, and he will sense at some level that there is something you are not telling him. It will poison your relationship slowly and you can never truly become one with somebody you are deliberately keeping in the dark. How can you every feel he truly loves you for who you are if part of who you are stays hidden from him? Yes, he will be upset. Perhaps more upset over you not telling him before the marriage than over the act itself. But along with confessing your wrongs to him, share with him the story of your repentance, including why you kept it from him, how you came to realize you had to come clean etc. That is all part of your story too, not just the things you did wrong. When he has the whole story he should be able to see that the person you are now is not the person you were then. It may be easier to write the whole thing out for him to read in private and digest before discussing, but however you do it, it must be done. The atonement is not just for washing away the stain of sin, it is for healing the emotional pain of sins. There are marriage that have transformed from situations of adultery into strong loving marriages because the power of the atonement is that miraculous, as long as people repent fully and forgive fully. You might want to check a 4 part series of posts on my blog about all this. Part 1 is at: http://latterday-marriage.blogspot.com/2017/09/healing-wounds-part-1-where-to-start.html I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I feel for your husband too. Things are going to likely get worse before they get better, but have faith that it can in the end become better than you can imagine.

I'm of the mind that men who want to practice it are likely among those most poorly suited for it.

It comes down to interpretation, and time may change how you understand your PB. It also may be that you have met the person you will marry, perhaps just in passing and some time down the road you will cross paths again and start a relationship then. Or perhaps somebody you've met will go through a personal change and become somebody you are interested in. I'm pretty sure you have met some men between getting back from your mission and now. Have faith, do your best and watch God do his wonders.

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. I know of cases where a woman married a non-member who was a good man and he eventually joined the church and they were sealed. I know of other cases where it resulted in a bad or failed marriage. It isn't that the Lord would withhold blessings, we cut ourselves off from blessings. Temple marriage is a big thing, it isn't just that you need it for exhalation, it is something your children will likely need. One blessing of a temple marriage is that if the couple keep their covenants God will watch over their children and shepherd them back at some point if they stray from the gospel. I would recommend that unless a woman gets clear, specific revelation giving God's approval to marrying a specific person outside the temple that she should hold out for a temple marriage and trust in the promise that she will get to be a wife and mother in the eternities if she is faithful (if not sooner). Reject temple marriage and you may wind up being a wife and mother in morality, but not after. Of course the whole man/woman ratio thing could be solved if polygamy came back, but that would open a whole new can of worms.

I think it is a real stretch to call what you SP said a prophecy. I would not worry about that, it is something that he wanted for you and the idea felt good to him but that doesn't make it a prophecy. That isn't even an area he is entitled to get revelation on. The only things I would count as revelation when it comes to this would be what your patriarchal blessing says and and what you yourself get in terms of personal revelation. Also, whatever has gone on in your life and whatever choices you have made are things God already knew would happen before you born, so any revelation from him takes that into account. As long as you are doing your best to live the gospel it will happen. Perhaps not when or how you expect, but have faith. You may not want to hear this, but after a mission could mean after serving a mission as a senior sister missionary, or some other kind of mission besides a full time church mission. Do your best to follow Christ and let God worry about the details of the things you can't control.

What the handbook says about church discipline is that the purpose is: 1) save the soul of the transgressor 2) protect the innocent 3) safeguard the integrity of the church Fornication is listed as something that may or may not need a Disciplinary Council to resolve. A lot depends on the details of the individual case. A one time mistake made in a moment of weakness or pressure, or out of ignorance, is not the same thing as a long term pattern of deliberate rebellion. He needs to go talk with his Bishop, and he doesn't need fear condemnation and judgment. He will find compassion and help. He will feel so much better even after the first talk. God and his Bishop ache for his return to the fold and are there to help him, but he has to take the first step. Satan will work to make him fear doing that but he has to find the courage to come back.His privacy will be respected, he won't be humiliated and shamed. A disciplinary council has the options of no action, an informal probation which would be restrictions like not being allowed to take the sacrament / exercise his priesthood / hold a calling until repentance is complete , a formal probation (further restrictions than an informal probation), disfellowshipment or excommunication. Given what you have said (which is all I know about it) I would think that excommunication is unlikely. He has not made and broken temple covenants and was young at the time (I'm assuming that since he only had AP at the time), stopped it and feels bad about it, and all that works in his favor. However I don't know the whole story and I'm not his Bishop so don't come back at me if things turn out differently. If he got a girl pregnant and helped her get an abortion that would not help for example. If it was something that happened a long time ago and his life since then demonstrates he has changed that works in his favor as well. The intention is not to punish somebody, it is to help them. Sometimes a person reaches a point where the best thing for them is to start over from scratch, and that is where excommunication comes in. Excommunicated members are not tossed aside, they are shepherded along the path back into the church if they are willing. Now if the situation is so bad that he is excommunicated, he would need to be re-baptized and he would have to wait a year after his re-baptism before he could go for his endowment same as any other convert. He would be restored to his priesthood office right after his re-baptism. If he is not excommunicated, then it will depend on how long it takes him to work out his repentance with the Bishop. As it is right now there is no way he can get a temple recommend without out and out lying to the Lord's anointed and that is a pretty serous thing too. Something you need to do is ask yourself what you are going to do if he refuses to confess. Would you stand quite and let him get a temple recommend without saying anything knowing what you know? What if he bails on the whole concept of a temple marriage to avoid confessing? I know you don't want to think about those things, but you need to.

My take on it: http://latterday-marriage.blogspot.com/2013/06/soul-mates-by-choice.html

There is no time limit where a bell rings and you have to decide. There is no 'should know by now' Either you know or you don't know and for some people they know after an hour or day or week or month, and for some they don't know for sure for years. Right now you don't know for sure, so if it feels right to stay together longer, stay together and work toward knowing one way or the other for sure without putting a time limit on it. Just don't hang onto him if you know he isn't it but you fear being single, that is unfair to him.

He lies because he is ashamed, or doesn't want to lose standing in your sight. It doesn't help that you take any setback as some kind of slight against you. He needs to feel fully loved and fully accepted and fully respected by his spouse even when he slips up in this area and his trying to hide his struggle from you makes me think he doesn't feel that. Addictions often have a physical component, like an illness. Would you react this this if he was having a relapse of cancer? I know that is not a perfect analogy, but it has value. He is fighting a war against his own body and he needs you as an ally. It is his relationship with you and his relationship with God that will get him to make progress day by day till it is overcome. You may wind up facing the same kind of situation with your children later on and if you come down on them or make them feel judged you will drive them away.

Have you talked at all with him about your concerns? Not a good plan to bottle it all up and then unload it all on him in one go when you reach your limit. If you haven't said anything you should have a conversation about it, but don't make accusations ('You are ...', 'You should...', 'You don't...') Use 'feel statements' (When you _______________ it makes me feel _____________ ) and give him a chance to digest and respond to that. Listen to him. If you make him feel attacked or belittled then it won't go well. Remember that the two of you are on the same team so don't make it a contest between the two of you. Something written might be better than having a face to face conversation. Give him the benefit of the doubt to start with at least and assume he is unaware or doesn't understand. Help him, don't condemn him, and be open to suggestions or concerns he may have about you as well.

There isn't a one size fits all answer here. God knows your daughter and how she would react. You need to find out from Him what will work best for your (and his) daughter.

Don't read too much into a prompting. If you feel prompted to date somebody, that doesn't automatically mean they are the one you are supposed to marry. It only means you should date them. Why you should date them is a whole different ball of wax. It may be for some other benefit, like an experience one or both of you need now to make a better choice of an eternal companion (somebody else) later on. Also, it is highly unlikely that both people in a couple will get the same revelation at the same time. In my case, I didn't get a prompting, I got out and out told that she was the one on the night that we met. She didn't know for sure until a couple years later. I didn't tell her I knew she was the one that night, she needed to find out for herself without me putting any kind of pressure on her. I pursued her but I kept that revelation to myself until after we were engaged. By then I knew it was safe to tell her. I think you may have said too much too soon to her. If she really is the one won't kill it. If that does kill it, perhaps that is the lesson God wanted you to learn from this. Likewise, if she really is the one then it won't matter that she is going off to school, things will work out. LDRs are tough however. My wife and I never lived in the same city until 2 months after we got engaged so I know what that's like.

I have two kids with serious mental illnesses. Both are YSA aged and haven't married, but both are leading good lives. In both cases it took some time to find a treatment that worked for them, and sometimes a treatment that was working for them became ineffective and the search for a better treatment had to go all over again. It is not easy, and certainly not an easy thing for a spouse to live with, but I believe it can be done. The spouse of somebody with mental illness will need to have a good understanding of what a mental illness is and be able to not take the symptoms of it as if they were deliberate chosen actions. It would take a lot of charity, but mental illness is a temporary thing and after mortality it wont' be a factor.

For most all of human history a woman could live her whole life financially dependent on somebody else (father or husband usually) and there would be no stigma attached to it. For guys the stigma would get worse and worse as they get older. That double standard still exists today, perhaps not as much, but it is far from gone. Yes, girls should take the time to know his situation, but even with those that do he starts off in the hole with her and has to dig his way out if she gives him a chance to.