hagoth

Hi I've been with the forum for several months and wanted to say thanks for an enjoyable time. I will be withdrawing for quite a bit now to focus on a few projects. Best wishes to all. :)

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Understood. Here's a short primer, if interested. http://www.candlestickstudio.com/files/Nephites.pdf

Of course. Around 98 AD, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote a short account about northwestern Europe called "Germania." In chapter 40 of that work, in the same breath as mentioning Lombards and Angles, Tacitus says, "In an island of the Ocean stands a sacred grove, and in the grove a consecrated cart, draped with cloth, which none but the priest may touch. The priest perceives the presence of the goddess in this holy of holies and attends her, in deepest reverence, as her cart is drawn by heifers (milk cows). Then follow days of rejoicing and merry-making in every place that she designs to visit and be entertained. No one goes to war, no one takes up arms; every object of iron is locked away; then, and only then, are peace and quiet known and loved, until the priest again restores the goddess to her temple..." (Compare the OT account of a cart, drawn by cows (1 Sam 6) https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/1-sam/6.7,10-11?lang=eng#6 , or even oxen, on which the ark sat. Like the chariot in northwestern Europe, the ark could not be touched by anyone but the priests. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/2-sam/6.3,6?lang=eng#2. Likewise, the conveyance of the cart before battle in northwestern Europe was akin to the conveyance of the ark in ancient Israel before going to battle.) Tacitus calls this female god Nerthus. Some modern linguists and anthropologists equate her to the male god Njord, who is associated with the sea, seafaring, wind, fishing, wealth, and farming. They have no explanation for the gender shift. Tacitus may have been wrong in assuming the god was female. According to at least one medieval account, Njord was the the son of a seafaring immigrant who arrived on the coast of northern Europe. Medieval accounts place Njord and his seafaring father (from whom European dynasties claim to descend) in the 1st century BC, making them contemporary with Hagoth's voyagers.

As some here may know, I am of the opinion (for many reasons), that a number of Nephites migrated to ancient northern Europe. And it just so happens that there is an ancient account that traces to that region, a few generations after Hagoth, which tells of a steadying of the ark taboo strikingly parallel to that of the Old Testament. Take it for what you will.

When I have difficulty making a tough decision, I'll write out a pro/con list, I'll consider it, make a decision about it, and pray about it. If it's a more complex decision than usual, I'll put he pro/con factors on a spreadsheet, assign a value from 1 to 10 to each one of the factors for importance level of that factor in my life (1 being unimportant to me and 10 being extremely important) in the second column, in a third column I'll put a score of 1 to 10 for how bad or good that factor is for me (1 being bad and 10 being really good). Then I multiply the two columns, and put the result in a fourth column. Then I add up the scores in the fourth column to get a raw overall score to see an indication of how important that possible decision is to me. Then I repeat all that for any other option that competes with the first option. That gives me an objective idea of how each option weighs against one another in importance. Then I choose one of the options, usually based on its weighted score. And take it to prayer for confirmation. That said, it's extremely rare when I have a decision so complex that I have to take it to a spreadsheet.to help think it through. Hoping some of that is helpful. Best wishes.

I haven't attended any high school reunions.

This actually merits a separate thread.

One way to reconcile all this is to consider that something akin to the tun (360-day year) of the Mayan calendar, (or even a slightly-shorter lunar year like that still used by Muslims), may have been involved in Nephite reckoning. A shorter year of such a duration would allow us to reconcile what we believe we know of Zedekiah's reign with what we believe we know of Herod's death. 600 of those shorter years can fit between the start of Zedekiah's reign and some point in time shortly before Herod's death.

I am, actually.* But I don't see how such things relate to Antarctica. Thanks for the enjoyable story, though. :) * "The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God." (Joseph Smith)

Um. No actually. I am not defending the phrase. Make an offender for a pair of words if you wish, but that is not at all where I stand. I am instead defending and addressing the underlying concern of feeling ostracized in a new ward. What I said was that the OP expressed a valid concern. (I've rarely come across a concern that wasn't valid.) And what I then added was equally important - a viable solution. My initial response to the OP was: "Jojo, while I understand your valid concern, Eowyn has a very important point...." (emphasis added for clarification) Eowyn's relevant and helpful point was: "How many people did you say hello to? Introduce yourself to?" Is that somehow more clear? Or, you can remain defensive if that is the preferred stance for some reason.

You're quite welcome Catlick. However, to be clear, I didn't actually say that heavenly logic is completely out of reach for a human. I simply shared one passage, among others, which indicated that God's wisdom is higher than ours. God reasons with mankind. God even condescends lovingly to help those who seek Him. As we knock, He opens. As we seek, He helps us find. Logic and intellectualism are not at cross purposes with God. However, pride that often comes with intellectualism is. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/9.28-29?lang=eng#27

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Char, I feel for the pain you and your husband have gone through (and are perhaps still going through). Being childless is an extremely tough challenge, perhaps even more so in a family-centered culture. Many in the church are kind and sensitive to such situations. I'd encourage you to seek them out, and try your best to disregard and forgive the few who aren't. They frankly know not what they're doing.

I wouldn't dare question what you deem best for your kids. Some of my nephews and at least one of my nieces had some terrible experiences outside of Utah - such that parents and kids alike were relieved to finally move to Utah. (They've moved outside of Utah again, at least for awhile, but are now homeschooling to avoid repeats of the former situations.)

?! For the record, my wife never said ANY such thing. Neither did I. So I'm unclear why you're making such an assertion. ...Any reason why you're of the opinion I believe Utah culture is the worst? I certainly believe no such thing. Nor have I said any such thing. I enjoy living in Utah.

Take it as you will. In some places outside of Utah, some in Utah are perceived as taking the Church for granted. Call that unkind, uncharitable, prejudiced, or whatever you will, but my wife was raised for part of her formative years in Utah, and has somewhat of a similar opinion. She is grateful that her family moved to other states when she was a teenager where she had to learn to find and stand up for her testimony, and be different. (I'm *not* saying such a thing can't be done in Utah.) Call that pride or arrogance if you wish. She is, however, reasonably humble and down to earth.

The ward we built our house in in Utah years back did the same. Our bishop had me lined up and interviewed for a call before our house was even done being built, and he and his daughter helped us move in.

A helpful caveat to any idea of intellectualism is this passage: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/55.9?lang=eng#8

Jojo, while I understand your valid concern, Eowyn has a very important point. (I say that as someone who was raised outside of Utah, and said I would never want to live there. I've actually ended up spending about two decades of my life in Utah since saying such a thing, and my experiences in wards here have actually been quite pleasant...along the lines that Eowyn has suggested...even though I am introverted by nature.)

Scripture tells us repeatedly that we are to love God with all our heart, might, MIND, and strength. (emphasis added) https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/4.2?lang=eng#1 God depicts himself (and his servants) as one who reasons with and persuades mankind. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/1.18?lang=eng#17 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45.10?lang=eng#9 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/eccl/7.25?lang=eng#24 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/1-sam/12.7?lang=eng#6 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/121.41?lang=eng#40 As John said, "In the beginning was the Word." Greek="logos", a cognate from which our English language gets the word "logic". My father taught me decades back in missionary training classes that every investigator and member eventually needs three kinds of conversion for lasting activity in the church, social conversion (finding a support group of friends in the church), intellectual conversion https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/88.118?lang=eng#117, and spiritual conversion.The latter conversion, the spiritual, is the most important, and is the core objective, but even that important element can slip if the other two aren't firmly in place to help shield, strengthen, and protect a newly-emerging spiritual conviction. As my father described it, it's a three-legged stool, where all three legs are important. Thoughts?

I was distracted when it was playing, so I have no idea how good it was, or wasn't. I am currently watching Amistad. My mother mentioned over the weekend that it was her favorite film of all time, so I'm watching it for the second time.

Given the context, perhaps the herders weren't believing Jews?... https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/11.7?lang=eng#6 Or were tending the swine for Gentiles?

I stand corrected. Mark 5 says they were being tended.

? Did Jews herd swine? In such a context, isn't it more likely a case of the herd of swine being wild instead?