Average Joe

That's why I love these words from the "Psalm of Nephi"
16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.
 17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
 18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
 19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

There is a contingent that take what a GA says in general conference and think that it is cannon or close to it. There is a contingent that will not see error in past prophets writings, speeches or actions. 
 
That contingent is alive and well on this board. Frankly I am surprised by some who have responded to the OP 

I strongly suspect that when we have advanced far enough to understand things as they are, we will see the so-called "Adam God doctrine" in an entirely different light. We may find that it is far more true than we currently think, and that weaknesses of our language or deficiencies in our understanding of how things really work -- or both -- are at the root of this supposedly controversial (and doubtless poorly understood) teach of President Young.

When I contributed to the editing of a manuscript for a fictional story of the three Nephites, the author came under fire for making one of them look less then apostolic by expressing a woman could be ugly. His orthodox LDS editors had a fit. How dare make an apostle look as someone who has human traits!  Besides that one scene in the book, the characters were stalward gardians of the gospel.
 
That's how extreme some perceive the infalibility of leaders.
 
I even had a post deleted from this forum for what I presume was my being critical of a local leader, when in fact I only reported something in our daily paper. I really don't think we need to scrub reality to make our leaders look spotless. That makes them unapproachable. 

Some LDS seem to see General Authorities as infallible rather then men ordained of God. Yes, they are the Lord's anointed but they retain human frailties. A brief look at Church history supplies ample evidence of this.
 
What happened to the 3 witnesses of the Book of Mormon?.

 
Cowdery, Whitmer and Harris were all excommunicated
 
What happened to the 3 of the members of the 8 witnesses of the Book of Mormon?
 
Jacob Whitmer – excommunicated
John Whitmer – excommunicated
Hiram Page – excommunicated
 
Have any other General Authorities been Excommunicated?
 
Apostles in the Quorum of the Twelve
 
Thomas B. Marsh (1835-1839) - excommunicated
 
Orson Hyde (1835-1839; 1839-1878) was removed from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles by vote of the church between May 4 and June 27, 1839. However, Hyde retained his apostleship during this time.
 
William E. McLellin (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
Luke S. Johnson (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
William Smith (1835-1839; 1839-1845) - excommunicated
 
Orson Pratt (1835-1842; 1843-1881) - excommunicated
 
John F. Boynton (1835-1837) - excommunicated
 
Lyman E. Johnson (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
John E. Page (1838-1846) - excommunicated
 
Lyman Wight (1841-1848) - excommunicated
 
Amasa M. Lyman (1842-1843; 1844-1867) - excommunicated
 
Albert Carrington (1870-1885) - excommunicated
 
Moses Thatcher (1879-1896) - dropped from the Quorum of the Twelve
 
John W. Taylor (1884-1905) - excommunicated
 
Matthias F. Cowley (1897-1905) - excommunicated
 
Richard R. Lyman (1918-1943) - excommunicated 
 
Two examples from the First Quorum of the Seventy
 
George Patrick Lee was a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy from 1975 to 1989, when he was excommunicated from the church.
 
Paul H Dunn - was a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy. It is clear that Dunn was not excommunicated from the church, though it is not known whether or not he was placed under some other form of church discipline, such as disfellowshipment or probation.
 
So what to make of all this?
 
"A living prophet is more important than a dead one." John W. Taylor (apostle from 1884-1905) was excommunicated because of Polygamy expressing the viewpoint that his father, the prophet John Taylor who prophesied plural marriage would not end and John W. Taylor further expressed that Wilford Woodruff's move to end polygamy was politically motivated. Right or wrong, John W. Taylor was removed. 
 
"Follow the prophet" is a phrase that comes to mind. Let's ask this question, when Brigham Young put forth the Adam God theology most of the Quorum of the 12 tactility, if not outright, gave their support - except Orson Pratt. Was Mormonism, according to Pratt’s argument, to become a religion primarily bound to scripture or would it continue to find its fundamental strength in the living oracles who led the church, the position espoused by Brigham Young? 
 
Brigham Young "won" in his day but after his death the Church swiftly reversed direction. So who was really right, Orson or Brigham? This is a conundrum for the Church.
 
Do I sustain my church leaders, yes I do. However, I don't believe in infallibility. Let the stoning begin.

Some LDS seem to see General Authorities as infallible rather then men ordained of God. Yes, they are the Lord's anointed but they retain human frailties. A brief look at Church history supplies ample evidence of this.
 
What happened to the 3 witnesses of the Book of Mormon?.

 
Cowdery, Whitmer and Harris were all excommunicated
 
What happened to the 3 of the members of the 8 witnesses of the Book of Mormon?
 
Jacob Whitmer – excommunicated
John Whitmer – excommunicated
Hiram Page – excommunicated
 
Have any other General Authorities been Excommunicated?
 
Apostles in the Quorum of the Twelve
 
Thomas B. Marsh (1835-1839) - excommunicated
 
Orson Hyde (1835-1839; 1839-1878) was removed from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles by vote of the church between May 4 and June 27, 1839. However, Hyde retained his apostleship during this time.
 
William E. McLellin (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
Luke S. Johnson (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
William Smith (1835-1839; 1839-1845) - excommunicated
 
Orson Pratt (1835-1842; 1843-1881) - excommunicated
 
John F. Boynton (1835-1837) - excommunicated
 
Lyman E. Johnson (1835-1838) - excommunicated
 
John E. Page (1838-1846) - excommunicated
 
Lyman Wight (1841-1848) - excommunicated
 
Amasa M. Lyman (1842-1843; 1844-1867) - excommunicated
 
Albert Carrington (1870-1885) - excommunicated
 
Moses Thatcher (1879-1896) - dropped from the Quorum of the Twelve
 
John W. Taylor (1884-1905) - excommunicated
 
Matthias F. Cowley (1897-1905) - excommunicated
 
Richard R. Lyman (1918-1943) - excommunicated 
 
Two examples from the First Quorum of the Seventy
 
George Patrick Lee was a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy from 1975 to 1989, when he was excommunicated from the church.
 
Paul H Dunn - was a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy. It is clear that Dunn was not excommunicated from the church, though it is not known whether or not he was placed under some other form of church discipline, such as disfellowshipment or probation.
 
So what to make of all this?
 
"A living prophet is more important than a dead one." John W. Taylor (apostle from 1884-1905) was excommunicated because of Polygamy expressing the viewpoint that his father, the prophet John Taylor who prophesied plural marriage would not end and John W. Taylor further expressed that Wilford Woodruff's move to end polygamy was politically motivated. Right or wrong, John W. Taylor was removed. 
 
"Follow the prophet" is a phrase that comes to mind. Let's ask this question, when Brigham Young put forth the Adam God theology most of the Quorum of the 12 tactility, if not outright, gave their support - except Orson Pratt. Was Mormonism, according to Pratt’s argument, to become a religion primarily bound to scripture or would it continue to find its fundamental strength in the living oracles who led the church, the position espoused by Brigham Young? 
 
Brigham Young "won" in his day but after his death the Church swiftly reversed direction. So who was really right, Orson or Brigham? This is a conundrum for the Church.
 
Do I sustain my church leaders, yes I do. However, I don't believe in infallibility. Let the stoning begin.

I like Utah Mormons - as long as they stay in Utah!
 

 
We do things a little differently here in the deep south
 

 
And I ain't talking Dixie Utah!

No surprise in his actions 
 
I am surprised that he is still considered a member of the church. I don't know if he has a temple recommend or has been or is under church discipline...I hope that "political stature" doesn't qualify as a "pass." If it does, then its time for the church to have a cleansing of the inner vessel.  

Hi Frank -
As I understand it, bishops do have some latitude in spiritual matters; and (speaking as a lawyer myself) I think a major reason that the Church doesn't make Handbook 1 publicly available is so that the members don't start trying to out-lawyer their bishops. :)
If a person thinks their bishop is treating them unfairly, I think it's best to set an appointment with the stake president to review the matter.

Papal condemnations of capitalism that also give godless communism a free pass from criticism are a sin, a prominent Cuban-American religious leader said this week.

“Why do you and other religion leaders condemn capitalism so strongly, and offer us a list of all the disasters that result from it on earth, but we never see an equally strong condemnation of atheist communism, which continues to cause the world so much harm?” Rev. Alberto Cutié, a former Catholic priest who is now an Episcopal priest, wrote in a column in the Miami Herald.

“Is it really more important to have diplomatic relations with a country that has not had free elections in 50 years, that abuses its people, that has a well-documented history of oppressing and robbing the Church–than to seek justice, the common good and freedom for all Cubans?” he asked Pope Francis, who met recently with Raul Castro and other Cuban leaders.

“I don’t understand–and don’t think I will ever begin to understand–why a man of God can meet with oppressors, but not the oppressed,” Rev. Cutie concluded.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-well-known-cuban-american-priest-just-asked-pope-francis-the-one-question-on-everyones-mind/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=TeaPartyNewsletter&utm_campaign=AM1&utm_content=2015-09-25

One of the most important factors in Stake and Ward division is active Melchizedek priesthood holders so...you need to factor that in to your theory.

The remainder of the quorum of the 12 have been carrying a heavier load due to issues of health and death of their brethren 

This will be a deeply poignant General Conference. My prayers are with the brethren and their families. 

I'm glad he is back with his wife, she died 20 years ago. 

lol, I've been trying to help grow my ward enough to split for years! Some folks have all the luck!

lol, I've been trying to help grow my ward enough to split for years! Some folks have all the luck!

Sssshhh! Don't tell anyone I was trying to be helpful...well, I guess it doesn't matter, they won't believe it anyway!   

I admit, I had to wonder what's going on with ward councils to warrant such a focus. I do understand issues must be addressed, but one does worry at times about Christ becoming a forgotten footnote. I'm sure most if not all speakers had the best intentions, and perhaps many were edifice and were given what they needed. You, on the other hand, needed a Christ lesson.
My advice is not to ignore or condemn our leaders but to take iniative for our own spiritual needs. Seek the scriptures, old talks, uplifting words of prophets and apostles. I don't think the talks of wards, stakes, and even general conference are meant to be all we seek.
I sympathize, Jane.

A couple random thoughts because, well, that's just the way my mind works...
 
First, wearing makeup is no more a sign of membership in the true church than wearing no makeup is a sign of rebellion.
 
Second, to paraphrase Jacob 2:7-9
 
And also it grieveth me that I must use so much dullness of speech concerning your councils, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God; And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul. Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained, because of the strict commandment which I have received from the leadership of God's church, to admonish you concerning your councils.
 
Third, many is the meeting for which the main purpose (to me) seemed at the time to be enduring to the end.
 
That said, I learned long ago I'm in church for me and nobody else - and not everything is geared to me. If I want sacred the temple is first, home second, church third. I shouldn't be in any of them except to be near the Lord - I hope your home is like that. Tired? Yeah, been there too. Fast, pray and put myself to work in the service of God - stepping up my home teaching with the pleasing word of God, working with the missionaries, privately sharing my testimony of Christ with others - all while being obedient, and being where I was supposed to be - no matter how dull the meeting was :) 

So one bottle down, how many cases of Jack do you still have left?

Name your brand and It'll be there If you bring the ice cream so we can do root beer floats

I'll bring the root beer!

I'll bring the root beer!

It may be BECAUSE of those things that you did  

I'm 100% behind her on this. You don't make a statement by going quietly into the night. If she's willing to be jailed for her beliefs she is one of the very, very few in the country that is. Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller was jailed for his beliefs, King was jailed for his beliefs, and so was Gandhi.
 
In Helaman 10:4 it states:
 
Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.
 
We are where we're at in this country because no one is willing to be accused of being "politically incorrect." So very, very few are willing to take a stand...everyone just says, "There's nothing I can do."
 
Love her or hate her, she has feared God and not man according to her understanding, and she has made a stand.