laronius

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  1. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Mores in Miracle Not Understood???   
    I have received impressions before about things that would shortly happen and they did but they were things that in and of themselves were very minor and had no benefit to them other than learning how the Spirit works with me. I think we underestimate how much the Lord is willing to take us into his confidence in important matters so he uses the less important matters to try to train us up.
  2. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Mores in Miracle Not Understood???   
    I have received impressions before about things that would shortly happen and they did but they were things that in and of themselves were very minor and had no benefit to them other than learning how the Spirit works with me. I think we underestimate how much the Lord is willing to take us into his confidence in important matters so he uses the less important matters to try to train us up.
  3. Like
    laronius reacted to Mores in Why Eternal Progression?   
    The other day I was in a group discussion where we discussed "journey to destination" type principles.  I mentioned that I believe I've gotten to where I want to be in my earthly life.  And I'm enjoying all the work I'm doing with family, church, professional life, social life...
    Immediately after me, one of the mothers in this gathering chimed in and said that she too had arrived.  But she is much younger than I (I'd guess by 10 years or so).  She mentioned that because she arrived so early in life (she's a phenomenally intelligent and capable woman) she's now spending a lot of her time wondering what she's supposed to do now.
    I took a moment to ponder that and wondered why I didn't feel the same way.  What was the difference?  I finally decided that my goal was not "retirement".  It was to reach a certain level in my professional, family, church, and social life.  It is not an "end".  It is a horizon.  I continue to work because that was my goal.  I continue to raise my children because that was my goal.  I continue to serve in my calling because that was my goal.  I continue building my social circles because that was my goal.
    Her goals were to 
    Get certain degrees with a level of education beyond degrees. Have a certain net worth and be out of debt (including her mortgage). To be married in the temple and have a couple of kids. These are "destinations".  They are not horizons.  So, once reached, she has nothing to do.
    I consider that the traditional Christian view of heaven is one of a destination.  Our view of the Telestial and Terrestrial are also destinations.  But our concept of the Celestial is a horizon.  We're not going to be sitting around in eternal splendor eating grapes and playing harps through all eternity.  We will be working.  We will be doing.
    When I consider my professional life, I know that what I'm doing now is because of all the preparation and proven track record throughout my career.  I don't just "all of a sudden" get a different job.  I gradually came to this job.  And I simply continue to do what I've always done.
    The gospel parallel is then somewhat stunning and obvious at the same time.  When considering the Celestial Kingdom, I would suppose it is people who hunger and thirst after righteousness.  This is their primary and consistent way of being.
    Just as I continue in my profession because of what I did before I "got here", I realize that whatever we do in this life, we tend to continue in the next, but in a manner that is defined by spiritual sensibilities and perspective.  We find our final destination because we have a proven track record of doing things that we will continue into the next.
    The primary work of the Celestial Kingdom is to save souls.  It would then follow that to be welcomed into the Celestial Kingdom, we need to have a proven track record of saving souls in this life.  I then consider what I've done to save souls.  And the truth is, I feel like I've done very little.  I don't want to make this a woe-is-me fest.  That's not the point.  But I just wanted to share this idea on what I consider to be the reality of the Celestial Kingdom and how to get there.
  4. Like
    laronius reacted to Traveler in Why Eternal Progression?   
    I believe this is a good subject - but there is an profound difference between fulfilling one's mortal purpose (probation) and being about one's eternal destiny.  Paul makes a very interesting reference in Romans (chapter 4)  where the Sabbath (day of rest) in connected to the eternal rest or Sabbath of G-d.  In short the Sabbath (Sunday) is a to pursue our eternal purpose.  One could assume that if watching football was their eternal purpose - that would be a most perfect Sabbath activity.  What we purpose to do with our Sabbath is the essence of our eternal purpose - and therefore called a day or time of "rest" or should we say "divine rest" - which I believe is nothing like what is often thought of as retirement.
     
    The Traveler
  5. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Are We Overly Compelled by Church Culture and Human Tendencies to Say I Know This Church is True?   
    I have absolutely no problem with people saying they know the church is true, even little kids. In Alma 32 Alma points out that knowing is a relative term. A person can come to know something through the workings of the Spirit and yet have it not be a perfect knowledge. So when a person testifies that they know the Church is true all they are saying, at the very least, is that this truth has been planted in their soul and has sprouted therefore they know that it is of God. But it's not a perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is that which is necessary for eternal life and is the fruit produced by that seed of Faith but only after much care and diligence. 
  6. Like
    laronius reacted to Traveler in Ward Boundary Changes   
    I suggest you read the second volume of the Saints.  Were there mistakes in organizing the companies to travel West and settle in the Salt Lake Valley.  Yes there were mistakes - mistakes that costs the lives, especially lives of young mothers and their infant children.  I descended from such a "broken" family.  I have a great great grandmother that traveled across to Utah as an infant that lost her mother on the way.  She never had a pair of shoes til later in her teen age years - She walked to school bear foot in the snow in northern Utah (Brigham City).
    I use to think that if you had a calling that G-d would make it easy to complete the task.  One thing I have learned is that we all must face difficulty and challenge to one's resolve and obedience.  The song "Come Come Ye Saints" was written to inspire our ancestors through hardships when 1 in 5 died in the struggles - mostly young mothers and new born children.
    The promise given in following our leaders is not that it will be easy - the promise is that it will be worth it.
     
    The Traveler
  7. Like
    laronius reacted to estradling75 in Ward Boundary Changes   
    That is totally irrelevant if you personally are following the Lord's council.  Lets take your case as an example.  Before you moved the council was to seek the Lord's guidance/approval/direction.  If we assume you did.. while you might not have been aware of the changes coming when you made the choice the Lord absolutely was aware when he approved it.  Given that it would mean you are exactly were the Lord would have you facing the challenge and trial the Lord has ordained for you to experience.  The Church is not in the business of countering the will of the Lord.  Thus if you followed council you can take heart that you are exactly where the Lord wants you to be even though it is hard.
    If you did not follow council. If the Lord in his wisdom was going to guide you elsewhere because he knew what was happening...  And you did not ask, did not listen, if you put your own wisdom ahead of the Lord's... Well then you really have only yourself to blame then.  The church had already spent a lot of effort in trying to help you, and as you noted people ignore it. 
    As for suffering because of others people's poor choices that has been true since the Garden of Eden.  That is why even now our Prophet is warning and forewarning us that we will not survive if we do not have and take the Holy Sprint as our guide.
    Either one chooses to follow the council the Lord has given us so our suffering can be turned to our good through the Lord's wisdom.  Or we can choose to ignore the council and then our suffering will either break us into humility or destruction. 
    The myth, the satanic illusion, the lie, is that one should not suffer as part of our test and trials here in mortally.  That is not the promise the Lord makes, that is not the promise we see in scripture.  The promise we get is that he will support us in such if we turn to him.
  8. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Are We Overly Compelled by Church Culture and Human Tendencies to Say I Know This Church is True?   
    I have absolutely no problem with people saying they know the church is true, even little kids. In Alma 32 Alma points out that knowing is a relative term. A person can come to know something through the workings of the Spirit and yet have it not be a perfect knowledge. So when a person testifies that they know the Church is true all they are saying, at the very least, is that this truth has been planted in their soul and has sprouted therefore they know that it is of God. But it's not a perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is that which is necessary for eternal life and is the fruit produced by that seed of Faith but only after much care and diligence. 
  9. Like
    laronius got a reaction from MrShorty in Can you please help me respond??   
    This disagreement is really just a symptom of a much larger question that has to do with faith and works. My guess is he believes that we are saved by merely accepting Christ as our Savior. So any other act/work is merely optional including baptism. So if you are to gain any traction with this guy (as unlikely as that is) it will be done by addressing the larger more fundamental question.
  10. Like
    laronius got a reaction from MrShorty in Can you please help me respond??   
    This disagreement is really just a symptom of a much larger question that has to do with faith and works. My guess is he believes that we are saved by merely accepting Christ as our Savior. So any other act/work is merely optional including baptism. So if you are to gain any traction with this guy (as unlikely as that is) it will be done by addressing the larger more fundamental question.
  11. Like
    laronius reacted to Traveler in The High expectations the Scriptures teach   
    Scripture tells us that we are intelligent.  The scientific term for intelligent is the ability to learn and change behavior.  All human behavior can be altered by choice - even addictions can be overridden by one's spiritual will (agency - intelligence).  Sometimes we struggle because there is a conflict between the will of our natural man and our spiritual intelligence (as per Christ in Gethsemane).  Nothing of value is obtained without a struggle - another term for such a struggle is discipline.  The term disciple has the same root meaning.  A disciple of Christ is the term for someone struggling to live up to what Christ teaches.
     
    The Traveler
  12. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Traveler in The High expectations the Scriptures teach   
    I think CV75 does a good job of pointing out examples in the scriptures we're healing does not come right away or at all. Not all physical trials will be overcome in this life regardless of the amount of faith of the sufferer. But you specifically mention addiction as a trial. I do believe that any physical trial that impedes our ability to keep the commandments can be overcome in this life and the Lord will help you do it. But it's unlikely that a removal of the addiction will occur all at once as there is a great deal to be learned from the struggle. I think the two big keys are deep humility (as in sincere Thy will be done deep) and exactness and great diligence in doing the things you are supposed to be doing. Let the struggle sanctify your heart and I think the body will follow.
  13. Like
    laronius reacted to CV75 in The High expectations the Scriptures teach   
    The woman that had an issue of blood for 12 years, the man blind from birth, the man crippled from birth, Zion taken up in process of time, Lehi's and Moses' sojourns in the wilderness, Paul's thorn in the flesh... there are many, many and these are just coming to mind in a matter of seconds. I'm sure I can find many others if I thought about and researched it. Hang in there!
    The Nephites had to wait a year after the great destruction before the Lord visited them.
  14. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Edspringer in What to expect from the 2020 April general conference   
    Now that sounds like a plausible scenario. I suspect that the amazing experience that is to be the next General Conference will have far more to do with how we prepare than what they actually do at conference. No different than before except we are being told in advance where to focus our preparation efforts. So in other words those with oil in their vessels will have an amazing experience and those without oil will see just another conference.
  15. Haha
    laronius got a reaction from mirkwood in No Guns in Sacrament Meeting—We Mean It This Time!!!   
    A while back we had some homeless people coming into our building while we were having sacrament mtg and they would go into the kitchen and prepare themselves a meal. Then they would pop popcorn in the microwave. Imagine sitting in the chapel and the smell of popcorn comes drifting in. And you thought the sacrament bread tasted good, this was down right distracting. This went on for about three weeks before we realized what was happening and told them they can't turn our church into a movie theater. 
  16. Like
    laronius reacted to Mores in No Guns in Sacrament Meeting—We Mean It This Time!!!   
    That's what I was going to say.  I'd mentioned before that I've prayed about the new policy.  And I've personally gotten confirmation that it is inspired.  (Not that this means everyone ought to believe my personal revelation.)  I guess that makes me the mirror image of MoE.  I disliked with the policy.  But I DO believe it is inspired.
    Elder Bednar actually answered this question.  He specifically talked about some advice your mother gave you that was a pearl of wisdom.  And at the moment when you needed it for an important decision, it came up in your mind.  Was it your mother's advice or was it the Spirit?  His answer:  Why can't it be both?  If it is a wise decision overall, then it would be the decision that the Lord would want you to make.
    I guess people have the tendency to believe that "inspiration" is only the type where God is sitting on His throne and decides which prayer he's going to answer that day and specially pushes a button that dispenses an instruction to follow a certain route.  While it CAN happen that way, I don't believe it happens that way for the vast majority of the time.
    I tend to think of inspiration more like sunlight.  The power of truth and wisdom is always present.  It is only a question of whether we'll focus on feeling the sun's warmth and/or looking for the light.
  17. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Edspringer in What to expect from the 2020 April general conference   
    Now that sounds like a plausible scenario. I suspect that the amazing experience that is to be the next General Conference will have far more to do with how we prepare than what they actually do at conference. No different than before except we are being told in advance where to focus our preparation efforts. So in other words those with oil in their vessels will have an amazing experience and those without oil will see just another conference.
  18. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Edspringer in What to expect from the 2020 April general conference   
    Now that sounds like a plausible scenario. I suspect that the amazing experience that is to be the next General Conference will have far more to do with how we prepare than what they actually do at conference. No different than before except we are being told in advance where to focus our preparation efforts. So in other words those with oil in their vessels will have an amazing experience and those without oil will see just another conference.
  19. Thanks
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Adam and Eve's purpose   
    So maybe try this on for size. In 2 Nephi 2:11 Lehi states that if opposition did not exist "all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death..." Now the "dead" mentioned can't be the same thing as the "death" mentioned. Dead is a state of being (or is that non-being?) whereas death is a process. So the "life" talked about, in order to be the opposite of death cannot mean the state of being alive (because that is the opposite of being dead) so it must refer to the process of being made alive or in other words birth. So Adam and Eve could not give birth because death had not yet entered the picture, being opposites. 
  20. Like
    laronius reacted to Vort in Adam and Eve's purpose   
    Not off the top of my head, but it's a common and obvious interpretation, predating Christianity itself by a long way. The idea seemed to get fixed into the Christian mind by Augustine, the greatest and most influential of the old Catholic scholars.
    If the Church's leadership had not explicitly taught that the forbidden fruit wasn't sex, I would certainly assume that that's exactly what it was. It's overwhelmingly obvious in all the symbolism used. I think it's almost unmistakable. For example:
    It's the forbidden FRUIT—the REPRODUCTIVE part of the plant. (As is the tree of life, because it allowed eternal life, as if one's own life reproduces itself.) It's the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, and as we realize, "know" is a common Hebrew metaphor for sex, as in "Adam knew his wife". Adam and Eve were naked but not ashamed—why? Because being innocent, they didn't realize the sexual significance of being naked in each other's presence. Why else would "shame" enter into the question at all? When they partook of the fruit, their curse was that they would die—which of course is the natural end of life. When Adam and Eve disobeyed the Lord and partook of the forbidden fruit, their response was to shamefully cover up—THEIR REPRODUCTIVE PARTS. What sense does that make, unless the forbidden fruit were somehow connected with their private parts? God's so-called curse on Eve was—that she would BEAR CHILDREN in sorrow. What was God's response to the transgression? "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil". (Genesis 3:22) And what is God's distinguishing feature above all other things? That he creates. That he is fruitful. The very first verse in all of scripture refers to God's creative powers. The conditions and consequences of sex are intimately (npi) and inextricably would up with the consumption of the forbidden fruit.
    I accept prophetic teaching that the forbidden fruit was not sex, at least not per se. But the connection between the forbidden fruit, the fall of man, the state of holy matrimony between man and woman, and the absolute centrality of sex in those topics cannot be ignored or glossed over. IMO.
  21. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in Thoughts on new Children and Youth Initiative?   
    I think we are all familiar with Pres Nelson's statement from his first GC as the prophet:
    "In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."
    If we combine that with the whole idea of a home centered and church supported approach I think we are being told that gone are the days (if those days ever existed) where parents can delegate part of their responsibilities to the Church in raising their kids. The world is simply becoming too dark to expect a couple hours on Sunday and a couple more during the week to keep our youth safe. If parents and families don't raise the bar and start creating a Proclamation on the Family home their children will be in grave danger notwithstanding the Church's efforts. Remember, half the virgins were foolish and not ready for the Bridegroom's coming. Imagine how many youth will be raised in those homes. Its a sad thought but we live in a sad world. Of course we do what we can to save as many as possible but we fool ourselves if we believe this new youth program needs to be some all encompassing venture to be successful. The whole point of the program is to help youth and families learn to become more spiritually self-sufficient.
  22. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Women and Spiritual tools outside of the Priesthood.   
    In addition to seeking out truth wherever it may be (as mentioned by Anddenex) we also know that by the power of the Holy Ghost we may know the truth of ALL things. In the self-reliance class I'm attending it makes it very clear up front that we are supposed to involve the Lord in all temporal matters. I think this is an area where we as members often live far beneath our privileges. As you point out there is still a lot of leg work to be done on our end but at the end of the day we take what we have learned, work things out in our minds and then present it to the Lord for both approval but also assistance in carrying it out. Its the whole "create things spiritually and then physically" process that we learn about in the temple.
  23. Thanks
    laronius got a reaction from Grunt in Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy   
    Things to do: study scriptures/conference talks, study Come Follow Me, family history, journal writing, cooking (but nothing too involved), work on calling, visit family, set goals for the coming week, go for a walk (when the weather is nice). Living in a hot place I find myself getting stir-crazy on Sundays sitting around. I do wish there was more to keep me moving when going for a walk is like strolling through Hades. I have felt the Spirit nudge me recently away from things that aren't necessarily bad (like reading a novel) but don't promote the purpose of the day. When I respond I do feel a difference in the day.
  24. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Women and Spiritual tools outside of the Priesthood.   
    In addition to seeking out truth wherever it may be (as mentioned by Anddenex) we also know that by the power of the Holy Ghost we may know the truth of ALL things. In the self-reliance class I'm attending it makes it very clear up front that we are supposed to involve the Lord in all temporal matters. I think this is an area where we as members often live far beneath our privileges. As you point out there is still a lot of leg work to be done on our end but at the end of the day we take what we have learned, work things out in our minds and then present it to the Lord for both approval but also assistance in carrying it out. Its the whole "create things spiritually and then physically" process that we learn about in the temple.
  25. Like
    laronius reacted to Anddenex in Women and Spiritual tools outside of the Priesthood.   
    Here are some of the thoughts that enter my mind and heart while reading your post:
    1) Truth. Jesus Christ is our author of truth as he said, "I am the way, the truth, and life." As members of Christ's Church we accept any and all truth no matter where it originates on earth, as all truth originates from our Lord. The question then we ask ourselves, "Is this true"? If the Spirit of the Lord confirms it, then we know. If we accept something as true, as from the Spirit, that has been clearly stated -- is not of God -- then we can know for ourselves that we need to rethink what we are thinking as true.
    The Church is not "exclusive" to truth. We are commanded to read from the best books in order to learn as much as possible. The Church does tell us to be watchful and cautious according to what we read, watch, communicate with, participate in, etc... Don't we as parents caution our children to do the same? Some members might be exclusive, the Church is not. Anything we learn and apply that is not of God, contrary, obviously has the ability to remove us from the straight and narrow path.
    So the easy answer, I am a member of good standing although I read books from other sources that teach truth in a different way that might shed more light and truth (intelligence) to becoming more like my Father in heaven.
    2) Physical and Financial -- true, our Church (the Lord's Church) isn't a place that teaches as things temporal. The Church is to teach us the path that leads back to the Father through the Son. Can we learn about temporal things through Church programs, well, yes of course.
    3) Emotional. Sure, the Church isn't for therapy. If you need professional help, seek it out.
    4) With your wife. I am concerned by how often she specifies these spirits came back after being cast out. The adversary and spirits of the adversary must leave when commanded. They return if we have invited them back.
    I assume the temptations of the devil are bothersome. I am concerned with the thought that the Lord will allow "bothersome" spirits without our invitation. As to the description provided (with understanding I have a vignette of what she experienced) it appears to be more in the mind than spirits.
    Evil spirits have bounds the Lord has set. Spirits of the just also have bounds the Lord has set. If we truly have a gift from God, then we pray to understand what that gift is and how to properly apply it.
    There are experiences, physical and spiritual, that are interesting (i.e. Joseph Smith in the sacred grove). The Lord allowed a Darkness (an attack) before Light was illuminated. When and why does the Lord allow such, and why does it appear to be so infrequent?