laronius

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  1. Like
    laronius reacted to CV75 in Keeping an estate   
    @zil2 I like to use this earlier dictionary as well: A compendious dictionary of the English language : Noah Webster : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, which includes property and rank.
    But your 1828 Webster's also has this reference to "rank": 
    So, the first estate can be read as the "spirit" order or class of God's children living in His presence, and the second estate the class that receives bodies that are in mortality, not in His presence. "Estate" of course also entails a responsibility or a stewardship as a God-given possession.
    The idea of "keeping" your class I think has to do with keeping the associated covenants. For example, Satan is still a spirit, but not in the presence of God and without light and covenants. And keeping your possession means you can also add to it, such as being "added upon" between the first and second, and the immortal glory added to the next (third) state, which is post-resurrection.
    And then there's the home-run!  
  2. Like
    laronius reacted to zil2 in Keeping an estate   
    Archaic language is the explanation, as far as I know.
    Webster's 1828
    Can't think of anything special about the terminology beyond what the older definitions suggest.
  3. Love
    laronius got a reaction from Edspringer in Lehi making sacrifices   
    I wasn't trying to equate the ordinances, just the fact that some of the details were omitted.
    Here is something I found that is interesting.
    Sacrifices and Offerings: Foreshadowings of Christ
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1980/09/sacrifices-and-offerings-foreshadowings-of-christ?lang=eng
    Richard Draper breaks down animal sacrifice into two categories: burnt offerings, which is what we generally read about in the temple, and then slain offerings. This is what he says about slain offerings:
    "The slain offering. The slain offering was a token of the covenant fellowship between various patriarchs and Jehovah. The offerer kept a share of the sacrifice. Only a portion of the offering was burned; the remainder was cooked and eaten by members of the offerer’s household. This represented living fellowship or communion between God and man. This explains why Jacob offered a slain sacrifice before taking his family into Egypt (see Gen. 46:1). He was asking the Lord to preserve the covenant among Israel’s children while they sojourned in this foreign land. He entered Egypt only after receiving the assurance that it would be so. (See Gen. 46:2–4; Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 1:268–69.)"
    Sounds a lot like Lehi.
  4. Like
    laronius reacted to zil2 in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    We do what we can righteously do, and then we stand still and see the salvation of God as he fights our battles, shows to all that he is God, provides means for our continued action, comforts us, and reveals his arm.  God is able to do his own work.
  5. Like
    laronius got a reaction from askandanswer in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    This is a worthwhile question.
    My response would be take up personal concerns with leadership but do so in private. Publicly questioning Church policy only causes doubt in those who faith is weak and emboldens the enemies of the Church.
  6. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    This is a worthwhile question.
    My response would be take up personal concerns with leadership but do so in private. Publicly questioning Church policy only causes doubt in those who faith is weak and emboldens the enemies of the Church.
  7. Haha
    laronius reacted to mikbone in Lehi making sacrifices   
    Martin freaking Harris…
    I’m sure that the answer is within the lost 116 pages.
    Some day.
  8. Thanks
    laronius got a reaction from Edspringer in Lehi making sacrifices   
    For the Nephites to practice the law of Moses fully they would have had to of had the authority to do so. I think, just like Alma going from a priest of King Noah to one authorized to baptize and establish a church, there are many details that were left out of the account. It's interesting though that while it's made clear in the Book of Mormon that they practiced the law of Moses there is relatively very little said about it. Rather the focus is on what it all foreshadowed, namely the coming of Christ.
  9. Like
    laronius reacted to The Folk Prophet in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    And I'm not saying that the concern others have isn't natural. I'm suggesting a choice of determination in response. It's something I've had to consciously do in the past 5 years or so. I am naturally GREATLY concerned by these sorts of moves. But I choose to put that aside and trust in God. That is my response, rather than my natural instinct. If that makes sense.
  10. Like
    laronius reacted to Carborendum in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    You had asked why there was a cause for concern.
    I provided an example why there may be valid concerns even though the Lord still has overall governance of the Church.  At the same time, that very example gives a warning that our "concerns" shouldn't take us down the wrong path.  The warning being that we shouldn't use this concern as an excuse to leave the faith or stop listening to the Prophet.
    One cousin (and her household) left the Church because of one bad bishop who was later called to be stake pres. Another cousin (and her household) left the Church because Pres. Nelson required missionaries to get the jab.  And no one in her house was a missionary. The thing about sifting is that the method of sifting is determined by the One in charge.
    ****************
    I remember a general conference talk where the speaker (whom I believe to be one of the children of the household that he spoke of) told of a family who were verbally abused by the bishop in public because of something that the father had done.
    The family went home feeling completely shamed and angry.  They were ready to leave the Church over it.  But when they got home, the father had them gather in the family room.  They all knelt and waited as the father seemed to be praying.
    After a while the father opened his eyes and began to speak. 
    (...to the best of my memory...)
    "Children, this is not the bishop's church.  This is the Lord's church.  And we will do what the bishop is asking because the Lord wants us to, not because the bishop wants us to."
    They eventually came back to full fellowship and all was well.
  11. Like
    laronius got a reaction from askandanswer in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A thought I had while reading your post is how, from the beginning, the Lord has involved in His kingdom those who would ultimately fall away if not completely turn against His Church. Whether it's Lucifer, Judas or many of the early brethren who disaffected the Lord does not seem to fear disloyalty. And I think this aspect of building the kingdom is only going to get magnified with time. He will strengthen and use their talents until they decide on whose side they are really on. And I think we may be surprised by which side some choose both bad and good. But what we do know is that all things will be made to work to accomplish the Lord's purposes. That may make it a bit uncomfortable for us but there is purpose to that too.
  12. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A thought I had while reading your post is how, from the beginning, the Lord has involved in His kingdom those who would ultimately fall away if not completely turn against His Church. Whether it's Lucifer, Judas or many of the early brethren who disaffected the Lord does not seem to fear disloyalty. And I think this aspect of building the kingdom is only going to get magnified with time. He will strengthen and use their talents until they decide on whose side they are really on. And I think we may be surprised by which side some choose both bad and good. But what we do know is that all things will be made to work to accomplish the Lord's purposes. That may make it a bit uncomfortable for us but there is purpose to that too.
  13. Like
    laronius got a reaction from JohnsonJones in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A good communications director knows how to keep personal opinion out of how they represent their employer. Time will tell if he is good at his job. It sounds like he works pretty close to the brethren. If there were multiple levels of separation, personnel speaking, between he and them I would be more concerned. But regardless I doubt this was an uninspired decision so I'm not worried.
  14. Like
    laronius got a reaction from zil2 in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A thought I had while reading your post is how, from the beginning, the Lord has involved in His kingdom those who would ultimately fall away if not completely turn against His Church. Whether it's Lucifer, Judas or many of the early brethren who disaffected the Lord does not seem to fear disloyalty. And I think this aspect of building the kingdom is only going to get magnified with time. He will strengthen and use their talents until they decide on whose side they are really on. And I think we may be surprised by which side some choose both bad and good. But what we do know is that all things will be made to work to accomplish the Lord's purposes. That may make it a bit uncomfortable for us but there is purpose to that too.
  15. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A thought I had while reading your post is how, from the beginning, the Lord has involved in His kingdom those who would ultimately fall away if not completely turn against His Church. Whether it's Lucifer, Judas or many of the early brethren who disaffected the Lord does not seem to fear disloyalty. And I think this aspect of building the kingdom is only going to get magnified with time. He will strengthen and use their talents until they decide on whose side they are really on. And I think we may be surprised by which side some choose both bad and good. But what we do know is that all things will be made to work to accomplish the Lord's purposes. That may make it a bit uncomfortable for us but there is purpose to that too.
  16. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Traveler in Pre-life - Standing on the fence?   
    Having been alive for possibly eons of time before coming to earth I don't think people just suddenly change when coming to earth. So if a person is perdition here those seeds were likely planted long before now. When God presented his plan to His children it was for all of them, not just those who met some righteousness threshold. Even Lucifer was invited to be born into mortality but he and others rejected it. I have no problem believing that there were others who were just as bad but decided it was better to be born than not.
  17. Thanks
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A good communications director knows how to keep personal opinion out of how they represent their employer. Time will tell if he is good at his job. It sounds like he works pretty close to the brethren. If there were multiple levels of separation, personnel speaking, between he and them I would be more concerned. But regardless I doubt this was an uninspired decision so I'm not worried.
  18. Like
    laronius got a reaction from askandanswer in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A good communications director knows how to keep personal opinion out of how they represent their employer. Time will tell if he is good at his job. It sounds like he works pretty close to the brethren. If there were multiple levels of separation, personnel speaking, between he and them I would be more concerned. But regardless I doubt this was an uninspired decision so I'm not worried.
  19. Like
    laronius got a reaction from MrShorty in LDS Church's New Managing Director for Church Communication   
    A good communications director knows how to keep personal opinion out of how they represent their employer. Time will tell if he is good at his job. It sounds like he works pretty close to the brethren. If there were multiple levels of separation, personnel speaking, between he and them I would be more concerned. But regardless I doubt this was an uninspired decision so I'm not worried.
  20. Like
    laronius got a reaction from Anddenex in Pre-life - Standing on the fence?   
    Having been alive for possibly eons of time before coming to earth I don't think people just suddenly change when coming to earth. So if a person is perdition here those seeds were likely planted long before now. When God presented his plan to His children it was for all of them, not just those who met some righteousness threshold. Even Lucifer was invited to be born into mortality but he and others rejected it. I have no problem believing that there were others who were just as bad but decided it was better to be born than not.
  21. Like
    laronius reacted to Anddenex in Meaning of Eternal Progression   
    I really like the scripture verse you quoted from regarding "sphere" of truth. I think that is the best way to describe truth.
    First, I find it humorous when anti-_____ try to use statements from previous leaders in order to prove contradictions within the Church and a specific principle. Second, we also know that every apostle and prophet were men and were given the intelligence (just like us) to think upon and try to discover truth. I personally love how open they were able to speak. How open they were able to share their ideas that they felt were true. This is unlike today, where our apostles and prophets are very conscientious of what they say due to anti-____. We have so many people now who are looking for anything and everything to make an attack -- to make an offender for a word/phrase.
    The whole concept of "eternity" (neither created nor made) and eternal progression (the capabilities of our next life) are as you have shared at the end, "All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it."
    There are three concepts that appear to contradict in these quotes (at least in the context provided):
    1. We are all going to continue learning
    2. The Gods had all knowledge and would not need to continue to learn and progress.
    3. The sons of perdition will dissolve back and lose their identity
    The teachings from #1 and #2 seem to contradict at face value; however, we already know that when we die we will continue to progress and learn into the eternities. This though does not mean those who are already Gods (i.e. God the Father and Jesus Christ). I doubt when I die that I will have come to the same knowledge God the Father already has. I think I will be learning well into the eternities. This seems to give evidence for #1.
    God the Father gives evidence for #2, and Joseph Smith quoted by Joseph Fielding Smith would be evidence to how God progresses (and potentially how we will progress also at some point). Or we will progress both ways at the same time.
    Number 3, is the only one that is new to me. I have never read this before regarding the sons of perdition. Always some new principle in the Journal of Discourses that makes you go "Hmmmmm". LOL
    What I wish I could do is have a good one-on-one with these previous leaders and asking them more in depth questions so they could expound on these teachings. I would love to pick their brains further, because I know I have thoughts as to how and what I currently perceive to be true or potentially true. I just wish I could hear more of these type of thoughts from our current apostles and prophets, but unfortunately, we live in another day and time where anti-____ are looking for anything they can -- even when they say its their opinion -- the monkeys come out on that "shista" real quick and start flinging.
    As you, I don't see any contradictions. I would love more context to the quotes as stated in the previous paragraph.
  22. Like
    laronius reacted to zil2 in Meaning of Eternal Progression   
    I don't know how to respond to Brigham Young's assertion that immortal beings continue to learn.  in Lectures on Faith, it is well argued that if we didn't have assurance of God's omniscience and omnipotence, we couldn't have faith it God's ability to save or exalt us - after all, if He doesn't know all and have all power, how does He know that he can exalt us - for all He knows, there is something that will stop him, or someone more powerful that will interfere.
    Of course, one can argue that God's omniscience and omnipotence are both within his sphere, and that he may well be increasing in knowledge and power by advancing to higher spheres:
    Revelation 2:17
    D&C 130:10-11
    This white stone (the phrasing may make it seem like there are two, but I think the combination of both references clarifies that it's one) will reveal to those in the celestial kingdom "things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms" - What!?  Yep, that's saying there are kingdoms higher than the celestial - at least, I don't know what else it could be saying.  Now, I think it's worth noting that only those in the celestial kingdom receive this.  Therefore, I don't believe it can be argued that those in the terrestrial or telestial may also advance.  Indeed, every indication is that they cannot.  What's more, there's every indication that only those in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom have any chance at advancing, if anyone does.
    So then we go back to the quote from the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith - about the Savior working out his kingdom and giving it to the Father.  Perhaps this constitutes the Father moving into a higher order of kingdom.  That would correspond to only those in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom advancing - since only they have increase / continuation of the seeds.  Eventually, the "round" will repeat, and the exalted will present their kingdoms to the Savior, etc. etc.
    This leaves the lower levels of the celestial kingdom, and the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms stagnant while one of your quotes has those in outer darkness devolving back into raw material and loss of identity (difficult to reconcile with the teaching that resurrection is a permanent, unchangeable state; also something that I think would be dangerous to preach in our day and age when depression and despair are prevalent enough that those in such states might find a sort of hope in the idea of an eternal cessation of consciousness and therefore act to "obtain" said cessation).
  23. Like
    laronius got a reaction from zil2 in Easter thoughts?   
    Perhaps a piece on where have all the Easter dresses gone. Society has become very casual and even sloppy in it's attire. 
  24. Like
    laronius reacted to classylady in Female angels?   
    I agree with Vort’s understanding. Most scriptural references of angelic visitations are to the prophets or leaders, which in my mind would be a Priesthood assignment.
     
    However, when I read many of my family history events, or have talked to those who have had angelic visitors, many of the angelic visitors are female—usually a deceased family member.
  25. Love
    laronius reacted to askandanswer in Urgent responses requested re meeting with confused investigator   
    Update
    He was baptised about an hour ago. I assisted with his confirmation. A new journey begins.