BeccaKirstyn

Okay--I think I get the point you're making now. Skimmed over this talk: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/dallin-h-oaks_free-agency-freedom/ Is this what you mean?

Agency: "...the ability to choose and act for yourself"--True to the Faith. Not trying to make a fight here. Truly curious how others view agency in this scenario of rape/abuse (both of children and of non-consenting adults).

Choose what?? Choose to not be raped? Because that's the context we're talking about here. I'm pretty sure if a child had the choice to not be raped, every child would choose to do so. Their ability to utilize their agency to get out of that situation is hindered. I see the point you're trying to make about physically removing agency all together. But their ability to choose is hindered.

Idk if this is a good thing or a bad thing 😂 Thanks for your post.

Okay, I see what you mean. Don't disagree with your differentiation of homosexuality vs. same-sex attraction necessarily. We're all still learning and growing with what the leaders of the church are doing as the world continues to move in a completely different direction than we are.

Oh sorry...should have clarified my response. I meant an individual label of sexuality. But I see what you mean about the general label of sexuality, like the Gay Men's Chorus. But again, I don't think affiliating with a group that is labeled as an LGBTQ organization normalizes the sinful behavior of homosexuality (because we must be careful--homosexuality in of itself is not a sin. Acting upon it is).

I mean...I do agree with this. Even though they don't see it as a sin. But it is still a label of sexuality which I've always found very odd.

3/5 of these examples are illegal under US law, so I don't think those are fair comparisons (assuming polyamory is in the context of polyamorous marriages)

But what is wrong with specifically inviting a conductor for a Gay Men's Chorus? We're opening the door of inclusion and love. These individuals are still children of God, just like you and me. They may never join the Church in this lifetime. But that shouldn't stop us from working with them or being their friend. Are we to never interact with any group, whether it be for music purposes, service purposes, etc. that affiliate themselves with the LGBTQ organization?

But how are we supporting their organization? I guess that's where I'm confused with this.

I totally see where you are coming from. I look at it this way: the LGBTQ group is a very sensitive group of people (at least IMO). I think the church is appealing to their sensitivity, as this may be the best route for them to find some kind of peace with the LDS church. I don't think the Church is looking for their validation, but I think we are playing to their weakness in a sense so that we can try to find some kind of ground for them to actually learn and understand what we teach. Many non-lds (and even lds) people think that the LDS church despises gays/LGBTQ individuals, and that we believe that they're going to Hell. Obviously this is incredibly false. But, if we don't open a path for them to see our beliefs, they'll continue to think that way. And this is just one of those scenarios that I think it is in our favor to "show our hand", if you will, in order to have at least one person sincerely look into our beliefs as an LGBTQ individual. Hopefully that made sense...

I didn't get to attend the event, but in the Virginia area there was a fireside recently called "A Gay Mormon's Perspective on Faith and Family" by a man named Tom Christofferson who wrote a book by that title. I actually wish I could have gone. May have to pick up the book and see what that says.

I read the dang link! haha. Great article.

I see what you mean, but directly approaching someone about a specific sin is not your place. Can you lovingly show them that you care about them and love them despite their weaknesses? Yep. But directly saying "stop sinning" is not what we're here for.

Don't think that's what He means by standing up for Him. The only people who gets to hold us accountable for our sins are Jesus Christ and God. Mercy and Justice. We, mere humans, are to hold the standards high so others can see what they are. But if one of our own begins to stray and is sinning in front of us, you do not tell them "you're in the wrong! stop sinning!" We love them, we care for them, and let them know we are here for them. That we want them back into the fold. (unless this is a parent-child situation--that is done in a different way). There are right ways and wrong ways to go about befriending and approaching those around us who are doing things they shouldn't be.

Oh, good to know! I love Far, Far Away on Judea's Plains. Also painful to sing if played slowly.

Which one?? I'm so curious.

Not sure a marked tempo change would make a difference on someone's ability to play songs like "Now Let Us Rejoice" or "Let Us All Press On" at the correct speed, anyway. I'm always playing these songs at the speed I deem appropriate (which is always a fast tempo--unless it's a sacrament song). But some just aren't able to play at that speed and feel confident. And if you're a skilled piano player and are able to play at that tempo, you should hopefully already not play it like a death march 😅 but maybe these changes will help! My fingers are crossed cause I'm always down for faster tempos.

I'm going to leave my 2 cents on the current subject being addressed as a 25 year old YSA woman... The fear of getting older and having children at an older age is always creeping up the back of our necks. We don't need any reminders. Most mid-twenty-something women are doing their best to date and try to get married so that they can start their families. But we can't wait around doing nothing while we hope and pray these men get off their lazy butts and ask girls out (or actually try to date when the girls ask them out). So as for myself, I'm continuing my education and making sure I'm as prepared as possible to support myself with a career, while also keeping marriage and family my #1 priority (which the Lord is very aware of) by dating as much as possible. It's a great goal and desire to be married by your mid-twenties so you can start having children before 30. But as for me, and MANY of the YSA women my age, we're doing our dang best to get that to happen. But also can't put our lives on hold while we hope for that desire to come true.

I think if you take the emotion out of it, and look at it from a logistic standpoint, the decision makes a lot of sense and will really help the Church keep accurate records of everything. Our Church is a Church of order, including the records we keep of both members and non-members. If someone is legally married as a same-sex couple, omitting that fact from Family Search is like having only 50% of their data recorded. It's not fully accurate. Whether we agree with it or not is not important for the purpose of Family Search and genealogy work.

Potentially might have overreacted about the 1st guy scenario, but I still don't have all the details so I could be wrong. But as @NightSG said, I would expect that a 28 year-old man is thinking about marriage in that way and not looking to waste his time with how long he dates someone. You guys were texting quite regularly, and those kinds of conversations come up. Just because you didn't have a real "first date" doesn't mean your communication wasn't similar to how conversations go on real dates. To me the problem isn't the guy, it is maybe your fear of getting married/committing to someone (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--but there seems to be a lot of anxiety/fear related to dating/marriage.) I think you're kind of getting to what I was saying with the second guy. You look back and now see you were being a little judgmental about the second guy and were letting your own problems (stress about school, potential issues with relationships) get in the way of how you viewed him. Now he asks you out again, and you still say no because maybe those underlying feelings about him and your view towards dating/marriage are still there. It's definitely okay to take some time to yourself to figure out what you want out of dating and marriage. You don't want to waste the time of these guys who are ready to get married. And you don't want to go on dates if you're not wanting to date--just not productive for yourself or for the guy. Figure out who you are, what you want, and what your short-term/long-term goals are regarding marriage. Then maybe take a dive back into the dating world.

Summerlin, Henderson/Boulder City, and Centennial Hills. Also depending on where you're commuting to work, double check what freeways you will be using. The I-15 is a mess anytime of the day. Stick to something accessible using the 215 and 95. Or no freeways if you can make that happen. Vegas native. Also, it has a very large LDS community. My dad is the bishop in a stake that just got realigned for the 3rd time in a year because of how much the area is growing with new LDS members moving in.

No problem! Sometimes our anxiety is our own worst enemy. I totally get it. It gets the best of me all the time. Glad you were able to find some answers! Good luck in the dating world! I'm still trying to conquer it myself haha.

I know people who date like @anatess2 did, and it worked for them. But I prefer traditional dating, and a lot of other LDS men do as well. But you have to find what works for you. But as @estradling75 said, you can't learn how to be ready for marriage (when that time comes for you...in 5 years, in 2, in 10) if you're not participating in activities/opportunities that allow you to be prepared for it.

Out of everything, I think it's important to say yes to all first dates (barring any major red flags about the guy) out of pure decency. The guy had the courage to ask you out (it is not easy!) and it is respectful to say yes. It is not their fault that you feel a heavy burden about first dates. Stop looking at 1 date as the future of your entire relationship with that person. They could go on a date with you and realize that you weren't what they were expecting and not want a second date. And then all your fears and worries were for nothing. I'm not trying to be rude, but I know from experience that these men (around the age you have stated) are getting more and more let down by women who say no to them asking girls out. And eventually they just stop dating all together because of it. Now, I think they should get over themselves. But at the same time I think women need to stop saying no to 1st dates. You try asking a guy out you like, and him rejecting you. It hurts. A 1st date is just about getting to know the other person. If you don't feel like you want to continue to get to know them after that, then you can say no to any future dates. But give yourself and the guy a chance. You have to practice dating, otherwise you're not prepared for marriage in any way. And practicing=going on dates.