Stumblinginthemists

Tonight it seems even Facebook is acting as some sort of spiritual guide. 7 years ago today I apparently finally posted my full testimony and conversion story on there. It's four pages of text so I've printed it out to give it a read, alongside my Patriarchal Blessing too. xxx

Thank you Zil for those talks, I've pondered them overnight (I'm in the UK!) I've got in touch with my bishop. On further contemplation on what you've all kindly said, I think you're all probably right. To begin, I will only be able to go for sacrament meeting due to circumstances at home (husband is recovering from cancer). I think all your responses have been the push I needed. xxxxxxxx

Needle - you are absolutely right at your point 3. I've spent a lot of time reading anti-mormon stuff, in fact my original conversion happened as a direct result of anti-mormon lies! But that's a story for another day. All too often I read of people saying that they've never had a revelation, never heard the still small voice, never experienced what I know to be a reality. In my journey, I never once met an ex-mormon who had those experiences. xxx

Thank you Lehi, but I feel right now that I need to work on my relationship with Heavenly Father, and not get bogged down with any politics or end up questioning myself on "why" I'm doing something. I need to make sure that I don't get so caught up in the what, and forget about the why. xxx

Cause to Pause Today has been a day of revelation. I’m inactive as far as the Church is concerned. I have shunned religion, shunned faith, shunned Heavenly Father for about a year. I’ve had my testimony rocked to it’s core. I became convinced that the church was a cult. You have no idea how hard that is to admit to myself right now, let alone anyone else. I have struggled, I have railed, I have wept and I have ignored. I’m a convert, no faith background except perhaps loosely Christian but no church attendance as a child at all. I’ve been dealt some blows in life, blows that others will never have to experience. I would write about them here but I fear they would make me too easily identifiable to anyone who knows me well. I’m not sure I’m ready to “announce” my intentions right now. I’ve been looking for another church to attend. I’ve been reading voraciously, trying to find something to grab hold of and extricate myself from the restored gospel. I’ve asked for help of anti-mormon folks. I have sat down and tried to analyse without any help from the Holy Ghost, what exactly it is that I believe in. Not just based on what I’ve been taught, but also based on my own experience. I even took a questionnaire online in an attempt to find another faith. 100% LDS. Despite that when I took it, as I answered, I considered that I was removed from LDS teachings, I thought my outlook had changed. In all this pondering I, not for the first time in my life, had a most curious dream. It woke me a good 4 hours before the alarm was due to go off. In that space of time, in the dawn of the day, I was able to hear the still small voice one more time. There is no other church that I can join. The contents of the dream are unimportant right now, but suffice it to say that it affected me enough to sit in quiet contemplation and to pray. Later, I was looking around for some music with a message downloads (I’ve always found music to be a spiritual medium that can set me in the right frame of mind). I inadvertently, thanks to the search engine with a y, ended up clicking on and off lds.org. But something caught my eye. President Uchtdorf’s General Conference Talk “Christ Will Find and Rescue You” from the April 2016 conference. It’s this week’s “Talk of the Week” on lds.org. Towards the end of this talk, the line: “Our Savior, the Good Shepherd, knows and loves us. He knows and loves you.” Never has something hit me with so much clarity of thought in my life. The talk goes on to say this: “His invitation is simple: “Turn … to me.”5 “Come unto me.”6 “Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you.”7 This is how we show Him that we want to be rescued. It requires a little faith. But do not despair. If you cannot muster faith right now, begin with hope. If you cannot say you know God is there, you can hope that He is. You can desire to believe.8 That is enough to start.” Today is my start. I can’t deny what I know anymore. I am telling no-one I know at this stage, I’m not planning on attending church in the near future. I am going to take each day as it comes, and draw a little closer to Heavenly Father. Truly humbled. Axxx

Hi all, I just wanted to share an article from today's Daily Mail. I'm copying it in it's entirety as I'm not sure if I can post links, or how safe links are to the DM website to be honest. In any event, it sums up very well the general attitude of therapy here in the UK. "DR MAX: Please Kate, don't turn George into a therapy junkie By Dr Max Pemberton For The Daily Mail Yes, I know what I’m supposed to say. Well done, Kate! What a wonderful person you are! Thank you for speaking out about mental health problems in children. And I do feel that. Really I do. There’s just something that made my heart sink when I read the Duchess of Cambridge’s comment this week that she ‘would not hesitate’ to send her children to therapy if she thought they needed it. See more on Kate Middleton as she ‘would not hesitate’ to send her children to therapy There’s just something that made my heart sink when I read the Duchess of Cambridge’s comment this week that she ‘would not hesitate’ to send her children to therapy if she thought they needed it Kate was guest-editing a website as it launched a campaign to end the stigma around child mental health. She was heaped with praise for choosing what everyone claimed was an unfashionable subject. Actually, the really unfashionable subject is adult mental health. We all feel sorry for troubled children. It’s mentally ill adults who generate fear and prejudice. Speak up for adults with schizophrenia and people imagine you’re defending axe-wielding maniacs. Not a good public relations move. Of course, even if Kate chose a slightly safer cause to champion, it’s still a worthy one. And I don’t want to be churlish. But I couldn’t help but cringe, just a little, when she said she wanted ‘to encourage George and Charlotte to speak about their feelings, and to give them the tools and sensitivity to be supportive peers’. Kate Middleton guest edits blog post on mental illness. Kate was guest-editing a website as it launched a campaign to end the stigma around child mental health It sounded as though it was lifted straight out of some PR handbook. Slightly inauthentic, in other words — and when you’re talking about mental illness, being sincere and authentic are quite important. Clearly, Kate is a great advocate for talking problems through. She seems to think this is a panacea. I’m not so sure. You might be surprised to read this from me, but sometimes it’s better to bottle things up. Sometimes, talking endlessly about your feelings isn’t the answer. Sometimes, in fact, you just need to accept the past and move on. No amount of chatting is going to change what’s happened. Instead, the best advice doesn’t come from Freud, or Jung, but from a far more child-friendly source: Disney. I’m thinking of that maddening song from Frozen: Let It Go. After all, isn’t that all that psychotherapy is about, really? It’s meant to help us let go of something in the past and move on. I couldn’t help but cringe, just a little, when she said she wanted ‘to encourage George and Charlotte to speak about their feelings The trouble is that people get hooked on it. They keep turning over their problems like a treasured possession they can’t look at too often. Instead of letting go, they use psychotherapy to hold on. Yet all the time they convince themselves they’re being terribly brave and sensitive. That’s not to say I’m not a great fan of psychotherapy when it’s rigorous. I absolutely think that the unexamined life is not worth living. I’ve had psychotherapy and I’ve trained in it. But I also think there can be too much navel-gazing. And that’s not a good habit to get into — least of all right from childhood. How old do you have to be before you stop blaming your parents for all the mistakes you’ve made in your life? Of course, I’m not saying a stiff upper lip is always the answer. That can cause a multitude of problems as emotions fester. But it’s sometimes best to let wounds heal. Constantly reopening and examining them only makes the process take longer and scars more likely to form. I look at the younger generation who have embraced the idea that we must constantly examine every feeling we have. Are they happier? Have they grown noticeably wiser and more psychologically rounded? No. If anything, I think people have simply got a little more self-obsessed and narcissistic. I think about my gran and the hardships she endured. One of 14 born into crushing poverty, she watched as her brothers were killed one by one in World War II, was bombed out of her home, left school at 13 despite having won a place at a grammar, and fell for a man who turned out to be a violent alcoholic who beat her. N ot only did you never hear her complain, I didn’t even know about half of the stuff she’d gone through until after she died. She didn’t speak about it because she knew she couldn’t change what had happened and just had to get on with living. If Kate wants role models for her children, who are the modern royals we most admire? Who comes across as the most psychologically robust? It’s certainly not Princess Diana, who, much as I loved her, was hardly what you’d call psychologically stable. Despite hours upon hours of psychotherapy, she was still dogged by problems. More than any other royal, she spoke about her feelings and yet it did her no good whatsoever. If anything, she seemed all the more tormented by her psychological issues precisely because she spent so much time examining them. No, the royals whom people look up to are the Queen and Princess Anne, both of whom are paragons of emotional restraint. I’ve no doubt both have their issues, as everyone does, but they just get on with life, don’t they? They don’t wallow in self-pity or spend all day self-analysing. Yes, good for Kate that she’s speaking up about mental health. She genuinely seems a warm, caring mother. But turning little George and Charlotte into therapy junkies won’t do them any favours."

For me it's more a case of logically I know it can't be true, deep down I know it can't be true, but there is just that small niggling little voice of doubt that causes me to pause. I'm not sure a christian therapist would be particularly helpful, given some Christian denominations hatred of LDS. It's not possible under UK law for me to even ask about the religion of a would be therapist. However, that said, it's not something I am discounting completely, it is just a different avenue to explore. I'm not really clear how seeing a therapist, LDS or not, will help with regards to my relationship with Heavenly Father and the Church but... at this point in time I am pretty much open to anything. xxx

Vort, unfortunately that is what I've tried to do with speaking to one or two of my stake leaders but it seems like it may be too difficult or an unwanted task to deal. Loved the "Psychotherapist" cartoon, that was fab - I've never realized that was how the word broke down before! xxx

The best way I can explain it would be that the fact a lot of Americans use counseling services etc is a subject of ridicule over here in the media. The church's counsel is on the basis of finding an LDS counselor, probably sound advise particularly in the UK given that we are becoming more and more an atheist country. The idea is that a counselor who is not LDS might not understand exactly what is going on. Imagine describing to someone who you are talking to about your mental health, that you believe in a faith "started" by a 14 year old boy in New York around 200 years ago, that you believe that there is a Prophet on the earth today. You're not going to get very far without being sectioned (not sure what the US term is here, but where you would be taken into a mental health institution for your own protection). Mental health is still very much something that is hidden in the UK, it's still associated with the asylums of old rather than being something that we can positively and proactively help/assist/exercise. There seems to be a general consensus that anyone needing mental health assistance must be at the far end of the scale and be a full blown lunatic. Sorry I know that's not particularly politically correct but I can't think of any other way to say it. xxx

It's not something that's really done in the UK and more importantly the Church counsels us to ensure we speak with LDS therapists only who are few and far between. xxx

Thank you also for replying. I was listening to one of the Music with a Message podcasts earlier today which reminded me of your post. The basic premise was that the winds of trials will cause some people's flames of faith to blow out while it will fan others, even though it's the same trial. I suppose my problem is that my candle is all but gone. xxx --- EDITED As soon as I hit enter then, I realized that's a false thing for me to say. I'm not faithless in the sense that I don't believe in Heavenly Father or the Atonement or Christ or the Restoration etc etc. I'm not faith-less but I'm not faith-full either in that I'm not doing anything to actually work on that relationship. Like any relationship if people aren't willing to work together, then the relationship will wither and die eventually. I suppose I need to work out whether I want that to happen here. xxx

I must say that part of what you kindly replied hit me quite hard. You're right, I'm stagnating here, neither progressing towards Him nor really walking away either, because I'm not actively doing anything to jeopardize a relationship with Him, I'm just not acting on it. Food for thought. xxx

I've highlighted the main part I took from your post, thank you for replying. Since everything that happened with my husband's cancer, I feel as though things go wrong every time I do turn to to Him, but things go well when I don't. I know that sounds crazy, and I know the good and the bad will come anyway, but it feels as though I'm putting a huge target on my back by turning to Him. I wonder sometimes if we can recognise when we are the tares and if so, wouldn't it be better to step away from the wheat in the first place? xxx

Now therein lies a rather difficult side to my story; we had a very long engagement (in years) and had our first child together prior to getting married. It has been an interesting journey, partly due to disabilities within our respective families, lots of things. But we'd been together a decade and rightly or wrongly, as my husband isn't a member, it was semi-accepted by my local leadership. I became inactive, had our first child, and then began going back to church. I finally had my ducks in a row, we married on the 23rd May, by the 14th June my husband was taken into hospital. His nephew (12 at the time) even said that the reason my DH was in hospital was due to him marrying me! LoL. Seriously though, that the main crux of the matter. I feel like if we hadn't got married when we did that the cancer wouldn't have happened. Even though I know logically that's a stupid thing to think, it still is in my head. As if because my ducks were finally getting into order, that something bad had to come along as a punishment almost. I hope that makes sense, and I sincerely hope it doesn't put anybody off replying to me. xxx

Hi all, I'm going to reply one by one I think in a short while. I thank you for your responses, I have been ruminating on them for the last few hours since they landed. xxx

Hi all, I think I've managed to work myself into a corner and I don't seem to be able to get any sense or response from my ward/stake leaders. I also can't get much sense from studying things out myself, I have been trying for months. Basically I feel as though whenever things go right in my life, as in things that would please Heavenly Father, something has to come along for me or my family to make things hard. The worst of these being my husband's cancer. And now I'm stuck in a situation where I am frightened to even turn to Heavenly Father anymore, let alone go back to church (I have been unable to attend with my husband's illness) because it will cause more suffering and heartache in mine and my family's lives. I'm looking for something to say "yes, that's the case" or "no, that's not the case". I just feel completely at a loss. There's part of me that feels that I should just man up and let whatever awfulness might come happen, but there's another part of me that knows it's not just about me, it's about my family too and I don't want to put them through more distress. Your thoughts are all most welcome. XXX

And this is the response I've just had from my bishop. I don't know whether to be annoyed at how curt it is or amazed at it's simplicity. "we just have to keep trying... "endure to the end" is the quote. Satan is very strong & always targets us when we are trying to do positive things. good luck and God bless!! take care" !!!!

Thanks for your replies. I actually did contact my bishop last night. Just for clarity I was baptised 12 years ago. The obstacles I speak of are a mental block and last night proved it in a way. My husband battled cancer last year - very nearly dying - there's a little more to it which I don't have time right now (son's 4th birthday!) but every single time I seem to progress life seems to slap me back down. For the last twelve months my husband has been steadily improving then at about 3am he was ill, collapsed over the stair rail. He's okay now, and it was a lot more dramatic at the time than an actual issue but it just really feels like everything will be okay (this is the thought in my head) if I don't have anything to do with Heavenly Father. Xxx

Okay so I used to frequent these forums about six years ago (ish) but time and emails have marched on and I no longer know what my old sign in was. I've had some valuable insights though from some very kind people on here, which has lead me here again. I just wanted to share this piece and ask for people's thoughts. I'm going to start this by explaining that for now I am not going to be posting who I am or where I am specifically. I know that anyone who knows me and reads this will know who I am; and I welcome a wave if you do pass by. I've lead a colourful life. I wasn't born into any church, loosely probably the Church of England but we never even went for Christmas or Easter. I wasn't christened or baptised into any group. Growing up my best friends were a pair of twin sisters who were raised Jehovah's Witnesses. I did some studying with them and came to a very specific belief and knowledge of Heavenly Father. My parents were less than impressed and over time my friendship and dealings with their faith grew apart. I drifted around then, spending some time with an evangelical group (only a few weeks - it became extremely evident quickly that my core beliefs were not particularly in keeping with theirs), I then spent some time in the Anglican Church. It was while I was speaking with the vicar about an adult baptism that I stumbled upon a testimony written by a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Something piqued my interest but having already experienced the Jehovah's Witnesses I took my time and read voraciously from both pro and anti sources. It was a few months after reading the first testimony that I was reading an anti-LDS site. I am not even going to repeat what I read here, but suffice it to say that my reaction was almost primordial. I wanted to take the computer and throw it out of the window. Something had changed. I'd gone from weighing up whether I believed in the restoration of the gospel, weighing up whether I thought Joseph Smith was a conman or a prophet, to knowing he was a prophet of God. It was at this point that I wrote to the bishop of my local ward as well as requesting missionary visits. That would be March time. I then carried on with life, sitting my final exams, getting drunk, that whole deal. The weekend after my last exam, I had a missed call to my cell phone from a local number. I called back leaving a message along the lines of "I don't know who you are but you called and as you're local I'm calling back." The next day the phone rang again, I answered to be greeted with "hi, this is Elder Nelson of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints..." I was bouncing off the walls. We arranged to meet that week at my grandmothers home. She has since passed away but she was fully supportive of my joining the church. The elders visited on Thursday, Friday, Saturday twice. (This was also when the discussions were taught.) It was on the Saturday that Elder Renwick said "we have a baptism day coming up." I naively assumed that baptisms must be scheduled en masse like they do in some churches and have every one together. I thought the elders were inviting me to watch. I enquired, "oh whose?" Elder Renwick looked at Elder Nelson who in turn looked at me and said, "it's yours, if you want it." I'm struggling now to write more for the moment. I started this blog today feeling it would help me chart a course either towards or away from my faith. In fact I didn't believe my faith existed anymore. But writing down my thoughts here now, and writing down my conversion story... I'm scared. A few weeks ago I was certain I knew that I had to walk away (before the whole LGBT issue - this isn't about that) and then I started to pray for the first time in months. During those prayers I was concentrating solely on Heavenly Father and my relationship with Him. I deliberately avoided anything specifically religious or confined within one faith if that makes sense. That lead me to thinking of testing the waters and seeing if I could go back. There are obstacles in my way. But I feel right now like I have had a mighty gut punch. How can I not go back knowing what I know? And accepting that I know it.