Gillebre

This is why it is vital for parents to take a much greater role in the proper raising of their children with the standards of Christ. Parents are intrinsically accountable by their very place as teacher, example, and leader of the family. Parents do their children a disservice by teaching them that there ought not to be consequences for actions. That is the voice of the adversary which teaches such things.

feel free to delete this if u want

no i didn't see it

Hey guys. Check out my call to serve... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151619788535757&set=vb.658735756&type=2&theater

I went ahead and downloaded a sample of her writing to my Kindle so I can check it out for myself. :)

This book relates a man's first person account of several personal and amazing experiences that came as a result of numerous close calls with death in his life. They give a certain perspective on events leading into the final years up until the Second Coming, as well as fascinating details on the nature of spiritual communication, the role of departed family, the true nature of how to prepare for Zion, and many other things. The account of things seen and heard and felt are not given from the author's perspective. This is because it was another man's (in the record he is referred to as Spencer) personal experiences that he personally felt commanded to share, anonymously, in published form. Having read this book myself, completely, I can say that I was thoroughly blown away, and it gave me so much to ponder and seek for myself. I can tell you that if you take the opportunity to check this out, and use it to absorb more information, that the Spirit may teach you, you will not be disappointed in this work. My sister in law will be returning it this coming Sunday, and I will most definitely be reading it again. :) You can find the book at the following links: Kindle Edition: Visions of Glory: One Man's Astonishing Account of the Last Days: John Pontius: Amazon.com: Kindle Store Paperback: Amazon.com: Visions of Glory: One Man's Astonishing Account of the Last Days (9781462111183): John Pontius: Books

The best reason to read such books is so that their words can provoke us to ponder, and search for revelation by the Holy Spirit. I can't begin to tell you how often my own search for greater light and truth came because of something I read which I tend prayed and pondered and stewed over...and the Lord was able to use it to teach me. My sister in law made a remark once about a book that I had bought, how she didn't think it was necessary to read or that it was true, and my response to her was that it was my goal to absorb as much as I can and let the Spirit sift it into categories.

I miss the chat room. Good times with good friends (Becca and Pam ), good conversations. But as has been said, it only takes a few to ruin something for the whole.

I think the war in Heaven was largely one for our souls. It was a massive conflict of ideology. I do believe there was a physical part to it, but not much beyond personal belief of mine supports that. Plus, I want a lightsaber. I can just imagine having one in the war in Heaven...because it's awesome. lol

Well, in this line of thinking there are clearly some gaps in understanding. I believe they were the first mortals on this Earth, and that they were born of parents. As far as I understand the descent of things (in my belief), when two celestial beings produce offspring, that child is born with a spirit body. When two mortal beings procreate, you get a child clothed in a mortal form. And of course when an immortal, and mortal person procreate, you get the Son of God. Now there are still gaps in understanding as far as Adam and his fall are concerned. Did it produce biological changes that made him mortal? I think so. But then again that leads back to what his original body was like pre-fall? Was it mortal but translated to be immortal, then became mortal again after the fall? That's a little hard to believe. Was Adam conceived of immortal, Heavenly parents? But that goes back to the spirit bodies thing. If immortal beings can procreate to produce either spirit or physical bodies...well, why weren't we clothed in immortal physical bodies in the first place. Things to think about. I can't say with absolute certainty who or in what state of progression Adam's parents were. I do not believe them to be Neanderthals or pre-Adamites, as I believe all life that came before Adam (to prepare the Earth) was allowed to die off or was removed.

As in Adam and Eve came in the same way as we did (ie being conceived and born)? Yes. Although I wouldn't personally consider conception and the maturation of a fetus to be 'evolution' necessarily, that just shows I know little about evolution itself. So, if you would define evolution (in part, at least) as the process of maturation and growth that a newborn goes through prior to it's physical birth, then I could accept that.

I suppose that the majority of my understanding of evolution is flawed. I don't know a whole lot about it, in fact, I probably have some personal misconceptions about it. Evolution is a very expansive topic, including things that I didn't think were part of evolution (like adaptation), but apparently are. What I do believe, based on personal testimony, is that Adam and Eve were literal beings placed in the Garden, and became the first living mortals after the Earth was prepared and sanctified. Any beliefs I have about evolution must inevitably work around the fact that Adam and Eve did not arise from lesser creatures. They were placed there fully formed, imho. Consider me silly or blind to believe that our first parents were real people, but that is part of the same testimony I have of the Savior. How evolution fits into that, I really don't know. I don't even fully know what evolution is, truthfully. Heh..

When I said innumerable and infinite, I was referring to our inability to designate and number each and every one of them. Of course there aren't an unlimited number of them. That isn't what I meant. As far as this book goes, I seem to think more and more than it gives many ideas that are mostly guessing, and although I agree with several things the author puts forth, there are other parts where I disagree. However, that said, the book is certainly worth reading for someone interested in the topic.

Everything that exists in this universe is in fact the creation of God, imo. now when I say God I refer to the title God, not the person that is our Heavenly Father. Christ is God, so is Heavenly Father. so is the Holy Ghost. they are all God, yet they are three distinct individuals at differing rates of progression who each have the same title. It is easy to think that a galaxy is just so small to be the extent of Heavenly Father's personal domain, but when you really begin to grasp the scope and immensity of our galaxy alone..it isn't so small anymore. At least for me. Our galaxy by itself has hundreds of billions of stars. So many that we can't even count them. They are innumerable and infinite to us. Not to Heavenly Father, for they are His and He knows them each and every one. Among those hundreds of billions of stars, there are countless numbers of planets, and moons, and asteroids, and comets, etc... There are so many objects in our galaxy, it's impossible for us to truly conceive of it in any but the most general descriptive terms.

The part I bolded is the bit in particular that I wish to comment on. I do not believe that the statement that Adam is the "primal parent of our race" is in reference to social distinction. When I read that statement, it certainly doesn't come across as 'Adam is the primal parent of Caucasians, or <insert race here>.' The statement is more correctly read as "Adam is the primal parent of our species", imo, which would absolutely put it in a biological, not social, context. If I've misunderstood, please correct me.

That is a fairly important and appreciated clarification.

If there's anything we've learned from modern science, it's that even though it is not perfect by ANY means, we could safely say that the Earth and the universe are VERY, VERY old. That is just by using our eyes and looking at the things around us. We have many faculties at our disposal, as the children of God, among them is an intelligence. We have the ability to reason and decide, to comprehend and understand, even if it's limited in our mortality. The idea that the word 'day' in the Bible, at least as far as creation was concerned, means a general organized unit of time, makes perfect sense to me. God didn't tell us that this earth was made in periods of twenty four hours. He did, however, tell us that it took a number of periods of time to prepare the earth for our habitation of it. Science does it's best to confirm this, and when science slowly (very slowly) comes into line in some ways with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I can accept it more readily. :)

The Bible is not wrong when it says that by faith alone we can be made partakers of salvation. However, having faith requires us to take action, to be obedient to the laws and commandments that Jesus Christ has given us. To attain salvation unto eternal life, the first thing that is needed is a Savior, and an Atonement for the transgression of Adam, as well as our personal sins. Such an Atonement provides for salvation from physical death, as well as spiritual death (being separated from God the Father). Without the sacrifice that Christ offered for us, paying for our sins and faults and pains and griefs, there would be no hope of salvation at all, for any of us. Christ offers us the gift of salvation, but requires that we do certain things before He gives it to us. We must have faith in Him, in what He did for us. By that faith, we must be willing to do whatever He requires of us throughout our lives. If Christ commands, we do it. If we do what He asks of us, and we show him daily the evidence of our faith, by the end of our mortal lives, we will be ready to partake of the great gift He offers to those who obey. That is 'what it takes' to attain salvation.

I agree. While there are scriptural indications of the earth's time in mortality, imo, not so much for the actual time the earth has been in existence in it's entirety. I have a coworker that refuses to accept that some Christians understand that the word 'day' is not only a measurement of time length, but a designation of time organization, which we as Latter-day Saints accept the latter, instead of the former, in the case of creation. Because he was personally raised with the idea that it was created in 24 hour periods, all Christians must believe the same thing.

I read once that the original meaning of the word 'create' in the Bible is more towards the word 'organized'.

The eternal laws of Heaven...the celestial laws, as you put it. While I think they aren't the same as physical ones, I have always believed, personally, that Father in Heaven is a God of science and order. We just have a partial peek at things, with our mortal, flawed understanding of what science truly is, in the grand scheme of the universe. It is simply my belief that, when people might say God can snap His fingers and make the whole creation happen instantly, that such an act of creation is contrary to how creation happens, how long it takes, the process, etc. We know that things on earth are patterned after things in Heaven. As far as our mortal laws of physics go, there are higher ones in Heaven, but I think God works with many laws, both in Heaven and Earth, to accomplish His Plans.

I'm able to attend the singles ward, but I choose not to. Instead I attend with my family's ward. It's just not something I'm interested in right now. I don't feel bad for that choice, and I don't think the Lord will fault me for it.

Is God capable of creating something out of nothing? No. He is not. Not because He isn't all powerful, but that's not how things work. Can God snap His fingers and the earth will appear, with us on it? No. That isn't how things work. God is still all-powerful, but He doesn't work contrary to the laws of the universe, which are not entirely known to us, only fully known to Him.

The thing with scientists in our day is that to measure the age of the Earth, they would compare it with what they believe were it's neighbors while it was being created. They compare the earth to the moon to the sun to mars to jupiter, etc... to get a general number in years of age. However....that doesn't work when the earth wasn't created here. There are many things we'd need to know about it's area of creation in space to have any kind of reasonable idea about that. What would you call a planet and possibly it's inhabitants who choose captivity and death according to the will of the devil, instead of liberty and eternal life through their Savior and Creator? Heavenly Father lets all of His creations, as well as His children, possess the gift of agency. It is the eternal law by which the family of the Gods work. It is a plan of voluntary participation according to the bounds which He has set to all things. We are free to choose for ourselves, but we accept the consequences of what results from our actions. Scripture tells us that mother Earth has fulfilled the measure of her creation, and has been faithful and true to her Master, our Savior Jesus Christ. We also know there are planets, among many other things, that have chosen the path to spiritual death. If, for example, you were to become a son of Perdition, would Heavenly Father as your spiritual parent be considered a failure because of your choices? Is the failure with the creator, or parent, if his child makes wrong choices? In the case I use as an example, anyway. I do not necessarily believe this planet is made up of 'fragments' of other worlds, thus explaining the many fossils we have. Those fossils came from a myriad of creations of God that were placed here intentionally to prepare the earth's surface for His children to have a mortal probation. After the creation process was complete, and the Earth was sanctified, Adam was the first man on the earth, the first mortal, through the Fall. We must remember to distinguish between the earth's preparatory period BEFORE it was sanctified and Adam placed upon it, and the things that happened after it's sanctification and the fall. For example, I think I could reasonably say that no dinosaurs were present after the fall of Adam. However, they were on Earth as it was being created and prepared for modern plant, animal, and human life. We know that humans are capable of great moral and societal degeneration, even to very low orders of subsistence and living.

the missionaries in my ward have received gift cards several times. i've been the giver. lol.