Steve Noel

Here is a dialogue/debate between a well known critic of the Bible, Bart Ehrman, and Evangelical apologists Mike Licona on the historical reliability of the New Testament. Thought some might find this interesting. http://www.thebestschools.org/special/ehrman-licona-dialogue-reliability-new-testament/

I am also reading LDS literature. I recently purchased Wrestling with the Angel and LDS Beliefs.

Lol, I know where the closest LDS church is at. I don't know how many Latter-day Saints there are around here, but I've lived here for about 35 years and I've never met one that I know of (except the missionaries I had come to my home).

It is already finished. I got an A! It was an argumentative research paper. I'm not sure that it will be all that interesting to you, but I can send it to you if you want. PM me with you email address. In the paper I argue for this thesis: The days of creation in Genesis 1 should be interpreted literally, because applying grammatical-historical principles of interpretation to the text leads to this conclusion.

I live in Michigan. I know of very few people who have had any interaction at all with Latter-day Saints. I have never heard a sermon or attended a class about Latter-day Saints in my church. This is not something most around here are exposed to, so there is little interest in Mormonism. It is not likely that I will spend much time in future ministry talking about Mormonism. That being said, if an opportunity arises I'm sure that I will speak about what I've learned. That may be to correct misconceptions or to explain where I believe Latter-day Saints are wrong.

In the other forum that I joined before this one there was one guy who thought I might be in a class about Mormonism. They speculated that I knew more about Mormonism then I was revealing. He thought I was "undercover" for a class assignment. Here are the relevant portions from my response to him. I think it will answer your questions as well: "I assure you all that I have no ulterior motives here. I have a passion for studying Scripture, theology, Church history, etc. I do not personally know anybody else who cares at all what Mormons believe. I do not personally know any Mormons... I attend a small Pentecostal church in Michigan. I am getting my BA in Religion degree online through Luther Rice University... My interest in Mormonism has nothing to do with my schooling. I am currently taking only 1 course (my last one!), and it is English Composition II. I do have to write a research paper for this course, but I am not writing on Mormonism. I am doing my paper on why Genesis 1 should be translated literally and not figuratively.Sal thinks I may know more about Mormonism than I am articulating. I don't know if that is true. I do know a good bit about Mormonism, but much of that knowledge comes from Evangelical apologetic works on Mormonism. I have read Walter Martin's chapter on Mormonism in Kingdom of the Cults, James White's Letters to a Mormon Elder, Janis Hutchinson's The Mormon Missionaries, Ed Decker's The God Makers, parts of Gerald & Sandra Tanner's The Changing World of Mormonism, Marvin Cowan's Mormon Claims Answered, Ron Rhodes' chapter on Mormonism in The Challenge of the Cults, and Richard Abanes' One Nation Under Gods. In addition I have read sections of many other books from Christian apologists or former Mormons who have written against Mormonism. I have also listened to many hours of teachings, podcasts, and debates on Mormonism from folks like James White, Walter Martin, Bill McKeever, and Robert Morey. Several years ago I read through the book of Mormon in about 3 weeks. This was when Mitt Romney was running for President and I was listening a lot to Glenn Beck. After reading through the Book of Mormon I went to Mormon.org and had the missionaries come over. I was not interested in joining the LDS Church. I just wanted to discuss Mormonism with actual Mormons. We had some good discussions, but they were very basic. The missionaries were not really prepared too get too far off the path of their lessons. Many times when I would challenge a belief or interpretation they would just begin to state, "I know Joseph Smith is a prophet..." I could not get them to really dig into the Bible with me. I now know that this is not what they are trained to do.So do I know a lot about Mormonism? I thought that I did. In the last several years I happened upon the public conversations that Greg Johnson and Robert Millet were having. I was very impressed with Dr. Millet. I bought several of his books and started reading them all. I then learned about How Wide the Divide? by Craig Blomberg and Stephen Robinson. I bought that and started reading it too. I then became aware of a book by several Evangelical scholars/apologists called The New Mormon Challenge, and I started reading that. Notice a theme? I have read the preface, forward, and 1st chapter of a lot of books . Even though I was lacking discipline, I did learn through from these books that my knowledge of Mormonism may actually be inaccurate. These newer books all strongly criticized most of the Evangelical writings on Mormonism that I had read. I have never shared or enjoyed the acerbic tone of some Evangelical writers against Mormonism. I have often thought that the tone and style of some Evangelical works against Mormonism were not representative of the fruit of the Spirit. I am a Pentecostal Arminian. I have experienced the arrogance, condescension, sarcasm, mockery, misrepresentation, etc. that sometimes comes from theologically/apologetically minded Evangelicals (especially online). So here I am. My desire is to get a true understanding of the LDS faith."

Thank you for a thoughtful response. I find much that I can agree with here.

Perhaps. The title I gave to this thread was the question, "Why was Muhammad Wrong?" I closed the OP with the question, "On what basis do Latter-day Saints reject this alleged revelation from God through his alleged prophet Muhammad?" In answering the "why" or "on what basis" I felt that you all would be expressing how you judge the truthfulness of a teaching/revelation that is claimed to be from God. Sometimes asking a specific question about a specific situation reveals things that a general question may not. Let me illustrate. There is an evangelism training course that a Presbyterian minister developed in 1962 called Evangelism Explosion. In that program Christians are taught to ask strategic diagnostic questions to help determine if someone understands the gospel. One of those questions is this: "If you were to die today and you found yourself standing before the throne of God, and He asked you, 'Why should I let you into my heaven?' What would you say?" How a person answers this question will reveal to you what they are trusting in for their eternal salvation. Usually the answer will be something to the effect of "I try to be a good person." Such an answer reveals that they are trusting in their goodness (or their good works) to gain eternal life. That is the way I was using the Muhammad illustration in the OP. I guess I could have just asked what standard do you use to judge truth.This is just the way I thought to ask the question.

Excellent. Thank you.

Thanks for this. The LDS view on this may not be all that different from the Evangelical view.

Obviously Muhammad is not here. It was a hypothetical. Not sure where you're getting your information about the formation of the biblical canon, but this caricature is not accurate. If you're interested in what Evangelicals believe about this, then here is an article on The Canon of Scripture by a respected Evangelical scholar. I am not sure why you chose to mock a straw-man here, but I am not interested in this kind of interaction.

Very good. Thank you.

Thanks for this. Is this distinction between "scripture" and "canon" taught as doctrine or just a popular belief?

As far as comparing Mormonism and Islam please read my response to Carb HERE. Otherwise, you have adequately answered my question.

No. I am not considering conversion. No, I have not tried to convert anyone here. Though I may at times seek to convince you all to change your minds about something. Yes. I am here to learn for myself what Latter-day Saints believe. I actually came to this board at the recommendation of people at the first forum I joined to discuss Mormonism (mormondialogue.org). I was told that I would get a better understanding of mainstream Mormonism here. That forum has a lot of disgruntled current/former LDS folks. Why am I wanting to learn about LDS beliefs? That is a good question. I don't know if I have a good answer for you. For some reason Mormonism interests me. I am someone who loves to study. I am fascinated by theology, church history, biblical studies, etc. I have just completed a Bachelor's degree in Religion with a minor in Apologetics. There are two contrasting apologetic approaches to Mormonism among Evangelicals. These two regularly criticize the approach of the other. I am seeking to better understand Mormonism in order to evaluate these approaches.