CV75

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  1. CV75

    CFM - 3 Nephi 8-11 - Hear Him

    Yes, my read is that it was a full year.
  2. CV75

    Alma 30:7-11

    Yes, I see this is an example of infringement on personal religious expression. The question in the OP is whether it is against the laws of God to support things like this. My take is that God’s law is to vote our conscience (He instituted governments, D&C 134), and He will judge whether the citizens are acting in accordance with the light they have. So I would say it is not “against the laws of G*d to vote in laws that prevent others from living according to their belief” or “to vote for laws that allow those of opposing belief to break commandments.” But He will judge us according to how we vote in relation to the light we have and how we share that light to influence others.
  3. CV75

    Alma 30:7-11

    Thank you. There are also LGBTQ people who believe SSM is wrong, and a subset of these, as well as a subset of straight people who think SSM is wrong (some are OK with it), could support pro-SSM laws for secular (political, economic) reasons. Laws created in jurisdictions where they must be are voted upon are typically the result of good-faith debate of the pros and cons, and the citizenry likewise has the duty (civic virtue) to live with them in good faith despite their personal druthers. Typically their laws can also be changed over time through legal processes. God holds people accountable for their decisions and participation in this process according to the light they have. So, given these parameters, I think good-faith voting for a law that either establishes or bans SSM would be morally acceptable, in accordance with the Book or Mormon teachings. As to a permissive law being in accord with God's revealed covenants, that is another thing. People are moral or immoral, not permissive laws. Likewise, a law that bans in accord with God's revealed covenants is neither moral nor immoral; the people are.
  4. CV75

    Alma 30:7-11

    Can you provide an example of a law that forces people to live contrary to their moral conscience? Given that not all LGBTQ people share the same moral view (we have active LGBTQ people in our Church), what would be the conflicting morality? Legalized ssm does not force saints to enter ssm, though it could be said it is a symptom of societal attitudes that run contrary to traditional religion and is therefore a looming threat to freedom of religious expression. The majority voted such laws in according to the light they had. I think some who voted against them may have failed to introduce greater light into the public square, and so they would share some responsibility for their passage along with those who voted for them in willful rebellion against God.
  5. CV75

    The power and keys of ministry

    It seems to me that the power and keys of "this ministry", by virtue of the presiding power and keys to bind and loose in heaven and on earth, allow for these apostles to have primary focus areas or assignments, some ministering for those in heaven, some for those in earth, and some for both. Peter ministers (i.e. presides--the master is the servant) for James and John.
  6. CV75

    Alma 30:7-11

    The law as you describe it (I haven't researched it) seems founded in concepts about age-appropriate levels of responsibility, age-aligned developmental mental capacity and competency, and the power differentials due to these between people of different ages, and not so much morality. It seems to have a secular premise over a moral one, which is a problem in itself. Voting is only an expression of belief, and not the commission of the deed that is allowed by the passage of the law that is voted upon. The scripture you cited relates to what governments can do to punish a person according to law, but not what God can do to punish a person for his beliefs that indirectly lead to actions that enable wicked acts to be committed. God's punishment is often unseen, and more often I think, not executed until the "last day." We each vote according to the light we have ("vote your conscience"), so the accountably rebellious will be punished accordingly.
  7. CV75

    Becoming like God

    I don't think it is an overstatement so much as a simplification (e.g. what does it really mean to be a man?) for the purposes of having a working model for the plan of salvation and a particle of knowledge for the sake of exercising a particle of faith. The more forward-envisioning our faith, the more it encompasses the past (and present). Similarly, what does it really mean to be a god? The Gospel is a Covenant, and so there are bounds and conditions that define the path of discipleship in God's kingdom and united discipleship on that path.
  8. CV75

    Sealing to wife and family Q

    My take on sealings is that we are all sealed to Christ as touched upon in the New Testament. This is expanded upon in the Restoration with the ordinances that legitimize various relationships that are founded in Christ. After all, we are all about the unity of the saints in Christ. The most familiar and common relationships seem to be generational in nature: husband-wife, child-parent, both natural and adoptive. Others that seem to have been used in the past are relational in nature: friends, employers ("houses"), some priesthood or other organizational unit approved within the kingdom. So sealing multiple women to a man, and man-man or servant to employer sealing certainly needn't imply a marital union, except in the specific case of plural marriage.
  9. CV75

    nothing and everything

    Another way to look at this is that Christ has already done all necessary to exalt all the children of Adam, and all we need to do is choose and act once an opportunity is afforded us. Alma 13 is directly about priesthood calling in this life, but can be extrapolated to anyone who, "left to choose good or evil..." chose good and does "not harden their hearts" which can occur any time, any place and under any condition covered by Christ's Atonement.
  10. CV75

    nothing and everything

    I feel that salvation is NEVER, EVER about chance in the sense of (mathematical or other kind of) probability. We are all on the same standing and alike unto God and agents unto ourselves. The Book of Mormon seems to use the term "chance" to mean "opportunity" (Alma 12:21 uses the interesting term "possible chance").
  11. CV75

    Seer stones?

    I think it is developmental. As time went on, both tools and faith advance, both individually as members and prophets, seers and revelators, and the Church collectively as we work together and stand upon the shoulders of those that have gone before us.
  12. CV75

    Book of Mormon white supremacy??

    RE: 1: Primary sources are essential when attributing teachings to Joseph Smith. That is why we cannot draw either set of conclusions that are represented in your deconstruction; they are not conclusions afforded by the research done with primary sources. For example, there is more to the latest research on Hebrew primary sources than suggesting “a metaphor for the change in countenance.” RE: 2: Similarly, we choose to accept the earlier or more current (and I believe better-supported explanations) provided in Church-produced materials. We can no more attribute the reasons for these updates than we can the prompting or the motives for them, but in any case, improved teaching and teachings are of far greater note than the prompting and motives for the improvement. For example, the Book of Mormon is typically read through the lens of our own culture and biases. The Spirit then bears witness, to those who seek it in good faith, that which leads to the fulfilment of the purposes set forth the Title Page and the exhortations of the prophets found throughout its pages. I think the Church is inspired at adjusting both what is taught and how as our cultures and biases shift with time, which of course more effectively leads people to Christ. Adding a thought: I think it is better for the advancement of truth for scholars to be passionate about research rather than passionate about an ideology which they may use to justify their research. Elder Holland touches upon that here, with a discussion about "Disciple-Scholars". I wish i could link to the entire speech, "The Maxwell Legacy in the 21st Century" but I cannot locate it. These snippets will offer an idea of the charge and the challenge: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/be-faithful-disciple-scholars-even-in-difficulty-elder-holland-says-at-maxwell-institute?lang=eng https://latterdaysaintmag.com/elder-holland-gives-apostolic-charge-to-be-disciple-scholars/
  13. CV75

    Book of Mormon white supremacy??

    Yes, I’m assuming the ancient Hebrew perspective is the result of good scholarship and makes sense to me (note that I was personally never uncomfortable with the more literal reading, which is exclusive to the covenant people directly involved). I am also limiting my comments on racism based on skin color to what has transpired in the “New World” and especially America. It seems Joseph (or Lucy) did not include skin color in these particular descriptions. I think the Book of Mormon means what it says in that the prophets who wrote it knew what they meant, from both their social and devotional perspectives. For us, understanding what they meant from a sociological perspective is a scholarly pursuit, and from a devotional perspective, a revelatory pursuit. We then choose which is more important to base our lives around. I’m sorry if you had such an experience with self-proclaimed intelligentsia. I think the Church essays take a well-balanced approach, having considered the best scholarship available. The same with Come Follow Me, which sometimes introduces some fruits of scholarship (e.g. “The nature and appearance of this mark are not fully understood…”) along with the revelations. I am perfectly fine with your posts!
  14. CV75

    Book of Mormon white supremacy??

    No problem! I am enjoying and learning from our conversation! We of the 19th - 21st century can use the 1828 American definitions of dark and skin, and certainly have, but when we obtain a clearer perspective of how the Nephites (ancient Hebrews) used the terminology in relation to the covenants of Israel, we can adopt those. But even if we don’t, the Book of Mormon message is antithetical to reviling people for their dark skin (both then and now), and the attitudes between the Lamanites and Nephites were not rooted in the color of their skins but by their traditions in relation to keeping or breaking the covenants. I understand the idea of skin tone and curse to be from the 16th century, originally having to do with power and wealth brokers justifying the morality and expansion of the slave trade on biblical and scientific bases, which subsequently got embedded in the ethos of any colony that relied upon slavery for its existence (the Church speaks to this climate in 19th century America in the Race and Priesthood essay). So naturally racist policies and attitudes were and still are fairly well ingrained in America -- despite the ideals promoted in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and which still rendered America the best place on earth for The Restoration to begin. A description of how this affects the Church and her members is found in the same essay, and still the Lord rolls things along. Despite the Christian ideals in her standard works, some members have known no other culture than one that held remnants of ideas and policy from the days of racially justified slave trade long after the institution of slavery was challenged and abandoned. I can’t speak to the motives of the scholars, but their research can be evaluated, and then of course we always choose which evidences to believe. But whichever lens is used, we will find no justification at all for racism by the commandment not to revile the cursed.
  15. CV75

    Book of Mormon white supremacy??

    Yes, I do think that all forms of power abuse are equally bad (in that they are just as bad, all other things considered). Often racism gets tagged onto the actual motive(s), or is seen as the primary motive when the issues might be economic, cultural, ethnic, etc. I think the degree of “badness” of one kind of abuses over another depends on the specifics of the dynamics under comparison, and sometimes the worst goes unrecognized. In Jacob 3, someone of one culture (e.g. ours, in the USA) might read literal skin color, and someone from other culture (as some of our scholars are finding) might read symbolic or metaphorical language for spiritual condition. In either case, the reader is hopefully learning not to revile (speak contemptuously of or to others, according to Webster 1828), all being the children of God and equal candidates for salvation. I see segregation and separate space as two different things, but I understand where you are coming from. At face value, segregationists aim to keep people apart while those who promote spaces of fellowship aim to keep them connected. Hopefully when it comes to the point of confronting, challenging and changing “abuses of power” it can be communicated and carried out in a way that draws upon the good faith of all concerned, so they agree, which is how Zion is built. Not everyone will be happy with that!