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CV75 last won the day on September 26

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About CV75

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  1. CV75


    Take a look at this! The Story Behind the Prophets Global Prayer of Gratitude:
  2. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    The Jaredites certainly had close encounters with the Lord in the cloud (2:4-5). But we do not know the nature of their religious beliefs and practices (e.g. sacrifice is not mentioned), only that they knew of commandments, obedience, sin, forgiveness and the Spirit (2:15) and that they strove to serve him. The "presence of the Lord" seemed to refer to temporal blessings (2:7-8), a promised land, not an eternal one (6:5,8, 12-18). The original Jaredite record did include an account from the Creation to the tower (1:3). But if the record was affected by the apostasy of the Tower-builder culture or otherwise lacked the specific prophecies of Adam, Noah and Enoch as we have them, then the brother of Jared was given something entirely new as far as they were concerned with the introduction of the doctrine of blood sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God. The light shines even in the darkness of apostasy, for some. It seems to me that, taking place some generations before Abraham, this “dispensation for one” in Chapter 3 fell outside of the Lord’s design to manifest Himself to the world, spiritually and physically, through though the line of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Israel, and so what he saw and learned were sealed up and not published or established among the Jaredites. But they had prophets, and were united as a humble, prayerful people, taught from on high (6:9, 12, 17) until they decided to have kings. Who knows how many advanced cultures have come and gone, built upon the original guidance of good men who received the light, or a portion of it, outside the line of Abraham. These children of God will be gathered in this dispensation.
  3. CV75

    Does God feel gratitude?

    Using this definition: I think God does feel "appreciation and thankfulness for blessings or benefits" He receives. He has relationships among other exalted wife, family and friends who bless His life daily. I believe He feels gratitude when we render our wills to Him: "In conclusion, the submission of one’s will is really the only uniquely personal thing we have to place on God’s altar. The many other things we “give,” brothers and sisters, are actually the things He has already given or loaned to us. However, when you and I finally submit ourselves, by letting our individual wills be swallowed up in God’s will, then we are really giving something to Him! It is the only possession which is truly ours to give!"
  4. CV75

    General Authorities

    I recommend following up with him anyway -- I'm sure he would like to not endanger others.
  5. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    I think the theory might allow that Jesus can manifest Himself as a spirit, as a mortal/translated being (flesh and blood), and as a resurrected being (flesh and bone), each with or without glory (e.g. transfiguration, on a beach cooking fish, or quickening mortals to see Him as bright as the sun at noonday) and at any time no matter what estate He might personally occupy at the moment, and that He can present Himself in an estate other than the one which He actually occupies (e.g. as a spirit for the moment, though He has a body of flesh and bone for the moment), and that the eyes of faith can likewise see Him in any of these estates no matter what estate He actually occupies. A simpler way of putting it is that He occupies all estates at once and the faithful see one of the other or any according to their faith. We can do the same for ourselves. It would be more practical to have a council of Gods, each member in a different phase of eternal progress, working together to present godliness (Father, Son in His various forms, and Holy Ghost) to the world, and many more than just three beings sharing these three basic roles. Of course this is all conjecture and/or doesn't help anyone attain grace at all, since the key to that is losing oneself to find oneself.
  6. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    Yes, I've always liked the idea that there are people that were taken up before the flood and continued to minister afterwards. Have a great Thanksgiving!
  7. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    😊 Elder Holland wrote this article back in 1976 so maybe he’s adjusted his phraseology since then… but he may also be reporting that what they saw was a body of flesh and blood (though we learn elsewhere it is a body of flesh and bone). Others seem to have made similar mistakes (see some of the examples below). My take on these verses is this: D&C 107:53-55, Exodus 31: 18, and Joshua 5: 13-15-- A spirit can do these things. Also, if the disciples could mistake the resurrected Lord as a spirit, the opposite could also occur with others. Genesis 18 and 32: these men are angles or holy men ministering under God’s authority.
  8. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    Interesting take. I suppose that He, as a Pre-Mortal Spirit, might have touched matter during the Creation or when He wrote upon the walls (Daniel 5, a palace; Alma 10, a temple). And He did put his hand over Moses (but this comes across to me as figurative language. In Ether, He only touched the stones and not the person. Of course Jehovah had the ability to demonstrate a corporeal body of flesh and bone (seemingly an eternal law of grace) to those at Adam-ondi-Ahman, but as He taught the brother of Jared, no one else ever before had the faith to do so. So I’m thinking Jehovah could have appeared to them and presided over the ceremony at Adam-ondi-Ahman as a Spirit, without the laying on of hands or otherwise interacting physically while He “administered comfort” to Adam. Or maybe He did but no one saw it, and this would allow Him to do the same in the Creation, writing on walls, and touching stones. Maybe He can put on / take off flesh and bone at will outside of the mortal parameters of birth (on) and death (off) and resurrection (on again); I know this is an appealing concept for some. But as long as a Spirit can also organize and touch things with or without a body of flesh and bone, the faith required for a man to witness either would be the same, which has been pointed out is not the case. Probably a topic for another time/thread. I do think one symbolical interpretation of touching the brother of Jared’s stones to create a light source is a type of the Abrahamic covenant, the covenant with Israel and the continuation of the seeds.
  9. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    Adding the thought I posted above: The eternal law seems to be one of grace, and requires us to do two or three things: 1. believe so deeply that we serve others with no thought of reward (Matthew 25:25-30) -- 2. the ultimate form of emulating the Lord in doing "all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23); and 3. believe that the Lord would withhold nothing from us to serve others, the same attitude we have when we withhold nothing in the service of others. I think the key to this experience is not seeking it in an ambitious or aspirational sense; our c alling and election made sure should come as a "surprise."
  10. CV75

    Rending the Veil of Unbelief

    Great article! The brother of Jared already knew the Lord had a finger, just not one of flesh and blood. From the definition in D&C 93:24, I sometimes consider faith and knowledge to be different forms of the same thing from three temporal perspectives: truth expected (faith, future-oriented), truth in application (faith as a principle of action, present-oriented) and truth confirmed (knowledge, past-oriented). For example, foreknowledge and faith are much the same thing. I see this account as providing an example of past, present and future truth being rolled into one experience: what the brother of Jared knew or had learned by faith (past; that the Lord had a finger); what he knows by faith (present; that the Lord could use His finger); and what he will know by faith (future; that the Lord will take upon Himself flesh and blood). The Lord just had to explain that third one to him, as the future revealed in the present can be confusing. Never before did man have such faith as to see, or more precisely, live for a moment in, the future independently of divine revelation. This is an eternal law that had never before been manifest in this world. And still, the brother of Jared needed the Lord to clarify and explain what he saw/lived/experienced.
  11. CV75

    What's the difference?

    I did not say "mere," but what kind of conversion would you call what you describe? Perhaps a good term is a "socialized commitment conversion" or even "spiritually unconfirmed faith conversion." And once such individuals obtain a "living testimony" -- whenever that might come -- there is no reason they should deprecate their socialization or faith (though they probably would not choose to go back to it). Likewise, converts are often grateful for their religious upbringing after they have obtained a "living testimony" though they probably not return to their former participation. "Keep all the good that we have and add to it," so to speak. And don't let deep-rooted good get in the way of better and best.
  12. CV75

    What's the difference?

    Those who prefer science, evidence and logic over feelings also prefer them on a subjective basis. People cannot escape being subjective or biased, though they can change their bias. They also possess an emotional attachment to their scientific preference, for intellect and feeling cannot be fully disengaged one from the other except in perhaps some pathological instances.
  13. CV75

    What's the difference?

    There must be something in common between the convert and the person born into the Church since they are both called upon to seek confirmation of the Spirit as to whether to commit to membership in the Church. This conviction is the spiritually-confirmed conviction that the Church is the only true and living church, expressed as the "living testimony of the members." The convert typically gains this conviction before baptism, and the born-in-the-Church member often after baptism. Of course sometimes people lack this conviction and join and remain in the Church anyway ("social conversion"). The living testimony of the members, whether friends and ward members or parents and family, is the primary instrument for us to be presented with the word (the "academic points" delivered in the word and example of the followers of Christ), but the light of Christ and the Holy Ghost manifest to the pure in heart are what deliver the message unto conversion (the "subjective experience" with God). From 2 Nephi 33, "...when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men. [and then, if you seek confirmation -- e.g. "Moroni's Promise"] Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words..." Some people have been known to hear the word from finding the Book or Mormon or some other Church publication and reading it and becoming spiritually converted without ever speaking to a Church member.
  14. CV75

    What's the difference?

    You touched on some valid academic points, but the reason people decide to "be LDS" is their subjective experience leading to that decision. That may or may not done by comparing it with Protestant religions, either academically or subjectively.
  15. CV75

    The second coming is in March

    As they say, "March: In like a lion..."