CV75

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CV75 last won the day on August 29 2022

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  1. The first lesson in CFM this year was about taking responsibility for your own learning (including framing good questions). These questions should be asked in Sunday School. They are in my class. When there are no pat answers within the 50 minutes, some class member(s) might be inclined to follow up. I've had some good conversations with classmates as a result. I find the different academic/scholarly commentaries to be helpful for translation and context, but only Church resources have the correct doctrine. We all have the gift of the Holy Ghost and can decide on how to handle non-Church sources. Another perspective, even doctrinally speaking arising from translation and context, can lead to good questions and inspired answers that only support the Restored Gospel.
  2. I think the key to this -- and it has to be answered honestly -- "Do I feel any impatience, criticism, condescension, enmity, contention, anger, etc. against this person? Any hypocrisy?" Not answering this honestly creates the beam and the greater fault. I take the resulting beam to be a lack of charity (judging first) and inspiration (seeing clearly).
  3. "Chapter 8: Matthew 24–25; Joseph Smith—Matthew (churchofjesuschrist.org): "Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:22; Matthew 24:24. “If Possible, They Shall Deceive the Very Elect” "Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:21–22 signals the transition from events associated with the destruction of Jerusalem to signs that will precede the Second Coming and the preparation the Saints must make to remain faithful during the last days. Many of the Savior’s warnings on the Mount of Olives were given to help the elect avoid being deceived during this time. "The phrase “if possible” suggests that if the elect are going to avoid being deceived, they must keep their covenants and hearken to the word of the Lord..." This particular verse concerns the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of Jerusalem (See JS-Matthew 1:18). But also, the "desolation of abomination" is a more general principle in two ways: 1) the destruction of the wicked to prepare the world for the second coming (D&C 84:117) and 2) their final judgement (D&C 88:85). This can be accomplished through their voluntary repentance, or by their dispatch (D&C 43:25). To address you specific questions: The threat that practically dooms the elect if allowed to persist is our own human nature -- only the intervention of God can save us. These days are to be shortened by the Lord's intervention, since even the elect cannot stop it themselves. This is His plan. This is not a departure from the intended course of events, but an intervention against the natural course of events without the Lord. Jesus is the Elect (Isaiah 42:1; or the Chosen One) and it is for His, the elect's -- singular -- and those who are His (the elect's -- plural) sake that He intervenes. The elect is/are found on both side of the veil.
  4. Yes, the first paragraph is what I'm calling a witness, the second is what I'm referring to as becoming. People can have had the first experience, and yet not experience acting on it or the results of having done so.
  5. 3 examples: you can have a spiritual witness that Jesus is the Christ, but not apply it to have the spiritual experience of becoming like Him. Or you can have a witness that the Church is true, but not join and become justified and sanctified by the Holy Ghost. A testimony of the Book of Mormon but avoid pursuing a deeper understanding for multiple reasons.
  6. Regarding others' spiritual experiences, I think we can only do our best and trust that God continues to reach out to them just as He has to us, whatever conclusions and applications they have drawn that differ from ours. God does not leave anyone exclusively to their own devices after one single spiritual experience. The spiritual witness that something is true isn't the same as the spiritual experience of who and what we are becoming. This is why regular/routine self -examination is so vital (as when we partake of the sacrament). Are we blessed, and a blessing to others? What kinds of people oppose us?
  7. Yes, if that is the nature of their tension as they perceive and feel it. I think tension is a built-in necessity for a probationary state, and is inherent with all forms of opposition, both adversarial and complementary. Sometimes the tension is between logic and spiritual feelings, maturity and inexperience, bias and openess, etc.
  8. I think that what I posted is also President Nelson's counsel. This can be useful in discerning what constitutes "good information", how to handle and interpret it, and seek, obtain and keep personal revelation. "Come Follow Me" for example schools us in this approach. Typically, it is not the bad information per se, but an undisciplined reaction to it that throws people off. For example, do you want to believe that Joseph Smith lied to Emma, or do you want to believe that thirty-somethings can have complicated pressures and relationships we are not privy to, and that the historical record is not complete enough to prove malfeasance? People have to know their limitations, that they are no more equipped to evaluate private histories than Joseph was in handling new doctrines.
  9. I see you reacted to my post, and so I will go out on a limb here and hopefully offer something useful! I see the “rock of revelation” as internal and personal, and the “foundation of apostles and prophets” as external and organizational. Fallibility is a given for each except from the One giving both the personal and organizational revelation. The idea is that God’s work, individually and collectively, progresses from the worst and lowest beginning(s) imaginable to the highest fulfillment. I see it being accomplished as follows: 2 Nephi 9 discusses the atonement of God, mercy (love) and justice (law) at great length. Mercy comes first, in that God’s fondest desire is that we become like Him, and so His atonement was established first, before the foundation of the world. Within that overarching structure, He places progressive laws which we choose to obey or not. This allows Him to be patient with our fallibility while things get better over time and justifies His expectation that we adhere to the two great commandments as He does. I think this helps keep our fallible moral, ethical and semantic expectations and priorities in perspective, secondary to the still, small voice and His patience with our attending to it in keeping the two simple commandments as He does.
  10. We can stay close to the Spirit so that we know what to say to the honest seeker of truth who has some doubts, and when and how to say it.
  11. I think gluten-free bread should be precisely ruled out. 😃!!! Other than that, the differences in the wording of the baptismal ordinance in the Book of Mormon and D&C are consistent with allowances for how we remember them (and Him). They both follow authorized protocol.
  12. The USA is certainly changing in style and form; I thought a couple of men I've met recently were gay (based on fashion, diction and mannerism) until I learned they are married; one is a member of our Church! A lot of the millennials (and younger) males have this look with the finely coiffed hair, too-carefully shaped beards, man-buns, Sally Jesse-Raphael glasses with floral hued rims, etc. A couple I walked behind looked like two women in skinny jeans... had the same pear-shaped bottom -- until i walked past and one was a man. So it is, by comparison, a more comparatively more femininized culture than say 30 years ago; at the same time, more angry and violent, which I expect to soon spill over into the more genteel set. I don't think the feminization detracts from the Gospel so much as the general social tension that accompanies such change. I don't think it contributes to LGBTQ favoritism since feminization is not necessarily sexualization (e.g., the metrosexual of the 1990s). However, confusing children over their eternal identity as children of God, especially by sexualization, is an abomination. So, what was your question? Accepting LGBTQ lifestyles as compatible with the Gospel is not good. The Family Proclamation is an extremely valuable tool in teaching our children their eternal identity and covenants. In all this, we look upon the heart, and not the appearance.
  13. This topic causes me to reflect on the skin we are given, along with its marks, that remind us of God's covenants and blessings. This can be considered to be a skin of light, as opposed to a skin of darkness. We keep them bright through obedience.
  14. For the sake of discussion, “mark” can be used as a synonym for “curse.” This is especially so for ancient religions where marks were used to cast as well as signify spells, hexes and curses. The same for blessings; for example: “Behold, I have graven [marked] thee upon the palms of my hands…” Likewise, “according” does not mean “caused by” or “the same”, but rather “corresponding.” So, we have: “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, [corresponding, answering] to the [curse] which was set upon their fathers…” This allows the event of coloring the skin to follow, or answer, the event of the mark or the curse God pronounces, which follows rebellion, as occurred in Alma 3:18: “Now the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads [third event]; nevertheless they had come out in open rebellion against God [first event]; therefore it was expedient that the curse should fall upon them [second event].